DDG - it needs to be said

[Lentwood]

Percentage of shots saved is a pretty basic way of judging tbh. A really good poster would be bringing xG stats into the thread and breaking them down for us. Must do better.

I did think about using xG but I think most people agree that it's far too flawed as a metric to be of much use.

However, feel free to go and check out DDGs xSaves and xG on the many respectable football statistics websites...I can tell you if anything they only make for WORSE reading for DDG fans!

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Not sure if Henderson is the answer but all I know is De Gea isn’t.

 

[galwayfa]

A coward, Hendo not answer either,

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Some statistics for all the 'it woz the defence' posters who are once again hammering our CBs for being so terrible that they conceded three shots on target (arguably two if you excuse the one the GK directly causes) in a game against top six opposition.

These are the statistics for the shots on target faced by the GKs currently playing for our main rivals

GOALKEEPER	SHOTS FACED	SAVED	GA	% SAVES
LLORIS	89	67	22	75
EDERSON	44	32	12	73
ALISSON	52	37	15	71
SCHMEICHEL	86	61	25	71
MENDY	45	31	14	69
PICKFORD	70	48	22	69
DE GEA	69	42	27	61

As you can all clearly see, De Gea is BY FAR the worst GK, in terms of actually saving shots (his job). That's before you even get into the fact that most, if not all, of the GKs above have other standout attributes beyond shot-stopping i.e. Schmeichel = command of area, Ederson = passing out from the back, Alisson = playing as a sweeper-keeper.

Then, I have tried to break that down into something meaningful to show you how big of an impact those numbers have, because on their own I understand it's quite hard to quantify what the difference is between 61% save rate and 71% save rate, for example.

Here is what would happen if a GK with the same percentage save rate as De Gea played for each of our rivals

IF DEA PLAYED FOR…	SHOTS FACED	SAVED	GA	DIFF +/-
TOTTENHAM	89	54	35	13
MAN CITY	44	27	17	5
LIVERPOOL	52	32	20	5
LEICESTER	86	52	34	9
CHELSEA	45	27	18	4
EVERTON	70	43	27	5

As you can see, the difference is stark. Chelsea and Everton, neither of whom have good GKs, are both 4 and 5 goals better off respectively. Man City and Liverpool, despite facing a relatively small number of shots, are still five goals worse off. In the case of Man City, that is nearly a 50% increase on their TOTAL goals conceded this year.

Imagine what would happen if De Gea were in goal at Spurs or Leicester! The stats tell you those teams wouldn't even be in a top four race, having conceded 13 and 9 more goals.

See, this is the difference between the good posters (like me) and the bad ones. Many come on here bleating about stuff, mainly influenced by simple narratives pushed by sh**e pundits who don't know their arse from their elbow.

Some of us take the time to dig a bit deeper. The FACT is that United don't concede an unusual number of shots on target and we don't give away an unusual number of good chances. The FACT (sorry to get a Rafa) is that De Gea saves significantly LESS of these shots than his counterparts at our main rivals.

Again, I repeat, this is even before you consider his other major flaws as a GK, compared with the more aggressive, pro-active goalkeeping styles of players like Alisson, Ederson or Schemeichel.

The FACT is people....you can bleat about the defence all you like but football teams will always concede shots on target. No manager yet has worked out how to stop the opposition having ANY shots. No defence yet has been good enough to go an entire PL season without conceding shots on target (FACT).

Therefore, when teams inevitably DO have shots on target, like the three they had on target tonight (I repeat, one as a result of a direct goalkeeping error), it would be quite nice if the t**t between the sticks would have the good grace not to move out the way of at least one for his £350K per week.

If any of you want to seriously argue with me that our defence is poor because a top six team had three (arguably two) shots on our goal then go for it, I'm all ears....

Painfully arrogant post but general correct. De Gea is a huge problem. He’s just not good enough. At any element of goalkeeping.

Although your insistence that De Gea is the only problem is completely undermined by your own stats, which reveal that four others keepers have faced considerably fewer shots.

 

[Lentwood]

Painfully arrogant post but general correct. De Gea is a huge problem. He’s just not good enough. At any element of goalkeeping.

Although your insistence that De Gea is the only problem is completely undermined by your own stats, which reveal that four others keepers have faced considerably fewer shots.

I don't say the 'only' problem....I'm pointing out he is the biggest.

Teams will always face a different number of shots as they play football in a different way. You could also get into stuff like expected saves and expected goals, but again, let's just show the very simple, very basic facts as they are.

Plus, as I am sure you are well aware, this isn't the first season De Gea has ranked near the bottom for saves, expected saves and 'mistakes leading to goals', it's probably the 3rd now in a row.

And yes I come across as arrogant sometimes...because ever since this forum got opened up to anybody and everybody it's full of absolute drivel supported by nothing. At least I take the time to back up my arrogant opinions with some basic fact-checking

 

[The Oracle]

Some statistics for all the 'it woz the defence' posters who are once again hammering our CBs for being so terrible that they conceded three shots on target (arguably two if you excuse the one the GK directly causes) in a game against top six opposition.

These are the statistics for the shots on target faced by the GKs currently playing for our main rivals

GOALKEEPER	SHOTS FACED	SAVED	GA	% SAVES
LLORIS	89	67	22	75
EDERSON	44	32	12	73
ALISSON	52	37	15	71
SCHMEICHEL	86	61	25	71
MENDY	45	31	14	69
PICKFORD	70	48	22	69
DE GEA	69	42	27	61

As you can all clearly see, De Gea is BY FAR the worst GK, in terms of actually saving shots (his job). That's before you even get into the fact that most, if not all, of the GKs above have other standout attributes beyond shot-stopping i.e. Schmeichel = command of area, Ederson = passing out from the back, Alisson = playing as a sweeper-keeper.

Then, I have tried to break that down into something meaningful to show you how big of an impact those numbers have, because on their own I understand it's quite hard to quantify what the difference is between 61% save rate and 71% save rate, for example.

Here is what would happen if a GK with the same percentage save rate as De Gea played for each of our rivals

IF DEA PLAYED FOR…	SHOTS FACED	SAVED	GA	DIFF +/-
TOTTENHAM	89	54	35	13
MAN CITY	44	27	17	5
LIVERPOOL	52	32	20	5
LEICESTER	86	52	34	9
CHELSEA	45	27	18	4
EVERTON	70	43	27	5

As you can see, the difference is stark. Chelsea and Everton, neither of whom have good GKs, are both 4 and 5 goals better off respectively. Man City and Liverpool, despite facing a relatively small number of shots, are still five goals worse off. In the case of Man City, that is nearly a 50% increase on their TOTAL goals conceded this year.

Imagine what would happen if De Gea were in goal at Spurs or Leicester! The stats tell you those teams wouldn't even be in a top four race, having conceded 13 and 9 more goals.

See, this is the difference between the good posters (like me) and the bad ones. Many come on here bleating about stuff, mainly influenced by simple narratives pushed by sh**e pundits who don't know their arse from their elbow.

Some of us take the time to dig a bit deeper. The FACT is that United don't concede an unusual number of shots on target and we don't give away an unusual number of good chances. The FACT (sorry to get a Rafa) is that De Gea saves significantly LESS of these shots than his counterparts at our main rivals.

Again, I repeat, this is even before you consider his other major flaws as a GK, compared with the more aggressive, pro-active goalkeeping styles of players like Alisson, Ederson or Schemeichel.

The FACT is people....you can bleat about the defence all you like but football teams will always concede shots on target. No manager yet has worked out how to stop the opposition having ANY shots. No defence yet has been good enough to go an entire PL season without conceding shots on target (FACT).

Therefore, when teams inevitably DO have shots on target, like the three they had on target tonight (I repeat, one as a result of a direct goalkeeping error), it would be quite nice if the t**t between the sticks would have the good grace not to move out the way of at least one for his £350K per week.

If any of you want to seriously argue with me that our defence is poor because a top six team had three (arguably two) shots on our goal then go for it, I'm all ears....

Brilliant post to be fair.

I've well and truly had enough of him.

I now liken De Gea to the block-stacking game of Jenga:

- The blocks are football matches
- Each block that is safely removed from the tower, is a match that De Gea does NOT mess up in
- The block that causes the tower to collapse, is a match that De Gea DOES mess up in

...you know that the stack will come down at some point, you just don't know which block is going to cause the collapse

...you know De Gea will make a mistake at some point, you just don't know which football match it’s going to be in - and for that reason he can no longer be trusted to be our number 1 goalkeeper.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't say the 'only' problem....I'm pointing out he is the biggest.

Teams will always face a different number of shots as they play football in a different way. You could also get into stuff like expected saves and expected goals, but again, let's just show the very simple, very basic facts as they are.

Plus, as I am sure you are well aware, this isn't the first season De Gea has ranked near the bottom for saves, expected saves and 'mistakes leading to goals', it's probably the 3rd now in a row.

And yes I come across as arrogant sometimes...because ever since this forum got opened up to anybody and everybody it's full of absolute drivel supported by nothing. At least I take the time to back up my arrogant opinions with some basic fact-checking

I don’t see any kind of mass objections to De Gea being a big problem for us. That’s as close as you will ever get to consensus on redcafe. You’re tilting at windmills.

 

[MadDogg]

Just watched their first goal again. He didn’t even need to touch the ball. If he’d left it altogether we’d have been better off.

I don't think you can blame him for making an attempt. If he'd left it and there was an attacker coming in on his back post he would absolutely be to blame. His piss poor weak-wristed touch which dropped it into the perfect spot for anybody coming into the centre was the issue. He should have got significantly more power into that to push it further from goal.

 

[Lentwood]

I don’t see any kind of mass objections to De Gea being a big problem for us. That’s as close as you will ever get to consensus on redcafe. You’re tilting at windmills.

I don't know what 'tilting at windmills' means...all I know is my fiance won't listen to me talking about De Gea's expected saves for two hours and I can't go down the pub....so RedCafe it is

 

[The Irish Connection]

Give Henderson his chance now until the end of the season and if he doesn’t perform, we will have to look for a keeper.

 

[sullydnl]

Brilliant post to be fair.

I've well and truly had enough of him.

I now liken De Gea to the block-stacking game of Jenga:

- The blocks are football matches
- Each block that is safely removed from the tower, is a match that De Gea does NOT mess up in
- The block that causes the tower to collapse, is a match that De Gea DOES mess up in

...you know that the stack will come down at some point, you just don't know which block is going to cause the collapse

...you know De Gea will make a mistake at some point, you just don't know which football match it’s going to be in - and for that reason he can no longer be trusted to be our number 1 goalkeeper.

The mistakes were the big problem in the last two seasons but I really don't think they are this season as he hasn't actually made that many.

He's just generally been mediocre. Which in some ways is worse.

 

[Bastian]

I'd rather we look to recruit a new keeper, but can't see it happening if we're addressing central defense, midfield and perhaps another striker option. Though this is equally as pressing a concern as getting a top centre back to mitigate the lack of pace and competence.

 

[MetoTTT]

His error was the turning point of the game even we were 3-2 at the end of the game.

 

[76side]

As brilliant has DDG has been over the years his current performances don't warrant the £375,000 a week wages hes getting.
He has been poor in the last few games and needs to be taken out and Henderson given a run.
Cost us the points tonight and a pound to a penny he's not in the starting 11 against west ham, shocking

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think you can blame him for making an attempt. If he'd left it and there was an attacker coming in on his back post he would absolutely be to blame. His piss poor weak-wristed touch which dropped it into the perfect spot for anybody coming into the centre was the issue. He should have got significantly more power into that to push it further from goal.

There was no attacker at the back post though. He should have known that. It’s not just outfield players who need to be aware what’s round them. Obviously having made the decision to go for the ball he dealt with it in the worst possible way. Which is even more annoying when you consider he didn’t need to deal with it at all.

 

[Eternitiy]

I implore Henderson to request a transfer if de Gea is not dropped from here on out.

Honestly makes me feel physically ill the amount of times de Gea has been solely culpable for goals in crucial matches over the past few years. How can he continue to perform his job so poorly and face no consequences? It really hurts and is unfair to the other players at the club.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

I implore Henderson to request a transfer if de Gea is not dropped from here on out.

Honestly makes me feel physically ill the amount of times de Gea has been solely culpable for goals in crucial matches over the past few years. How can he continue to perform his job so poorly and face no consequences? It really hurts and is unfair to the other players at the club.

That could be part of the problem. Perhaps he isn't fully motivated, has become stale and needs challenging. Drop him, give him some real competition and let's see if he responds. £375,000 per week new contract has possibly made him complacent. Put him to the test and demand more of him.

 

[OrcaFat]

There is a problem with the defence. But there is also a problem with our midfield conceding possession under pressure which does make the CBs and DDG’s job harder.

We’ve had these problems for a while and there was a time when DDG did a difficult job pretty well. I’m afraid those days are over.

There are other issues but we are generally creating enough chances and scoring enough goals.

Just shipping one goal fewer in three or four matches would have seen us clear at the top. I’m sure Ole would rather not have to buy a new goalie but it’s beginning to look like the simplest route to making those marginal defensive gains. It’s a damn shame for DDG but there it is.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

I missed the first goal. I was coming back up, into the room and saw De Deal with perplexed look that tells you he has made a mistake. From the on, I knew we have given a goal away. It may be coming to the point where a decision needs to be mad about him. Because he certainly is not a presence befitting of Manchester United and team that needs to be winning titles.

This match was always a potential slip up, that no one was talking about in the run up to the game, but would have been a great result had we come away with 3 points.I do not usually criticise the team, but this was giveaway. I am really disappointed and apart from Cavani, Mctominay, Greenwood and Fernandes there are players that should be looking at themselves.

Solsjaer, could be more decisive with his substitutions. A balls up. I'm afraid.

 

[kundalini]

On post-shot expected goals minus goals conceded, De Gea ranked 15th out of the 21 keepers to have had at least 10 starts this season, after the Everton match.

https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats#all_stats_keeper_adv

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Oblak is United boyhood fans, DDG is Atl Madrid boyhood fans. I think we should create story and make it into reality where they will play with their dream clubs.

 

[MadDogg]

There was no attacker at the back post though. He should have known that. It’s not just outfield players who need to be aware what’s round them. Obviously having made the decision to go for the ball he dealt with it in the worst possible way. Which is even more annoying when you consider he didn’t need to deal with it at all.

He may (hopefully) know that Doucoure is the only attacker in the area, but for most of that play Doucoure looked more likely to be going to the back post. By the time he makes the move to the near side the cross is about to come in and De Gea definitely couldn't be looking around.

De Gea playing at the ball was the right decision, doing it in such a weak way is the issue.

 

[elmo]

Don't worry, Ole will sit on his ass and support De Gea again as usual for the third season running.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

De Gea has actually taken us to such low levels of keeping that most people are actually fine with a stable goalkeeper. Top teams generally have goalkeepers who win you games , we on the other hand have one who forget winning them is actually losing them for us

 

[sglowrider]

Don't worry, Ole will sit on his ass and support De Gea again as usual for the third season running.

Dont be daft. What do you expect Ole to do? Throw him under the bus like a Jose? You were fine with Jose for pointing players for their mistakes in public?

 

[city-puma]

Don't worry, Ole will sit on his ass and support De Gea again as usual for the third season running.

I doubt it. In the post match interview, Ole said he doesn’t want to blame anyone. It by itself means that he clearly identified who is making the fatal mistake. This game is so shock to everyone. I believe there will be a consequence for us to get out of the current poor run (one loss and several draws in the last few games)

 

[2 man midfield]

If it’s the champions league final tomorrow, I’m going with Dave. But Henderson has to come in now for the good of the team going forwards.

I think it’s time to make Dave our cup keeper and play Henderson in the league.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Literally seconds left line the feck up in front of the goal...simple

 

[MikeKing]

Dont be daft. What do you expect Ole to do? Throw him under the bus like a Jose? You were fine with Jose for pointing players for their mistakes in public?

 

[Heinzesight]

Love what he’s done for us in the past but it seems a lifetime ago. He’s weaker than ever and an all round wet-wipe...but added to this you just don’t see him vocally commanding his defence often. Get a more vocal keeper in and that will help out our defenders massively. I’m not saying the Chuckle Bros in front of him are top notch but it might help them.

Plus on corners we are more concerned with protecting a surrounded De Gea than clearing the ball.

Would love to have seen Romero given more of a chance in his time here.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Very difficult situation from Ole and also the player is currently on massive contract as well.

Right now Ole has choice whether to drop him mid season and give young Dean a chance and let him develop which could cost the team since there is risk or keep playing DDG and accept we will have few shit game from him that could cost us which unacceptable for 350k or 375k wages.

Game like today is where you want your keeper to save the team which what he had done in his prime. But he‘s no longer the same. The prime DDG would save at least 2 of the goals today in my opinion. Not the first time he showed the coward display this season. Disappointed, done better than last season but still not good enough.

I think we are currently in the same situation as Liverpool where we need top keeper and top leadership centre back to put us into good position to challenge the league.

 

[FizzyWomack]

No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.

He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.

 

[dave1956]

I believe that in previous seasons he has has had a very competent defence in front of him, which has reduced the number of goal scoring opportunities and belaid his questionable ability in commanding his 6 yard box, cross balls and one to one situations.
Now over the last 3 seasons that defence has neither been competent as a unit or reliable thus leaving him open to more balls played into his 6 yard box, shots on his near post and an increase on one to ones. This has exposed his positioning, and his mental ability to deal with physical contact where he may receive a injury or physical discomfort. He should no longer be our number 1 keeper, given the clubs other squad keepers they should be given the opportunity to prove them selves, we have Grant, Romero and Henderson, Romero for me should be considered he has a very good record in the games played plus he commands his area and is brave coming out for cross balls in a crowed penalty area.

 

[RazorOz]

He's still a top goalkeeper, but he's prone to more mistakes now. Perhaps it's a concentration issue. His confidence seems fragile too, which isn't being helped by Laurel and Hardy at centre back in front of him. He's never been a brave goalkeeper.

He really isn't. He used to be a top goalkeeper, but he hasn't been for years, you can't just put 3 years down as bad form. Most Premier League teams have better goalkeepers than De Gea. It says it all that shot stopping is meant to be his biggest asset, but he's 17th in goalkeeper save %, and he's been posting numbers like that for years now. Even in his prime he wasn't good at coming off his line and commanding the box.

Problem is no-one will touch De Gea, he's basically our new Sanchez with the crazy contract he is on, even if we tried to sell him we'd end up paying half his wages.

 

[shabz]

All goalkeepers make mistakes, however, we're at the point where we have seen mistakes consistently enough over the last 3 seasons to warrant a change of direction now.

I don't think De Gea is a top 10 keeper in the world anymore and we need someone who is to match our aspirations.

 

[MadDogg]

Dont be daft. What do you expect Ole to do? Throw him under the bus like a Jose? You were fine with Jose for pointing players for their mistakes in public?

This isn't similar to Mourinho's treatment of the likes of Shaw, Martial and Pogba who were unfairly targeted. Continuing how we are would be more like how Matic and Lukaku played every single match no matter how bad they were, and Mourinho refused to give anyone else a real chance.

 

[peridigm]

No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.

He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.

He’s part of the defense. He’s part of the problem.

 

[Harry190]

No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.

He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.

What's he part of?

 

[iammemphis]

Stuck with this pretender til 2023

 

[Foxbatt]

No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.

He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.

Never thought he was part of our midfield or forwards. I always thought a keeper was part of the defence team. He has been crap for a long time now. He makes world class saves but at the same time concede goals that any decent keeper would save. The defence is so much under pressure because of him. We need a keeper who can come out and claim high balls with confidence. Come out certainly outside the 6 yard box. Hendo is certainly not the guy. I would rather it was Romeo rather than Hendo.