Day 18: Croatia vs Brazil | Netherlands vs Argentina (QF 1&2)

Isn't this a bit of a silly debate though? It's not as if the best players necessarily have the highest probability of scoring. WC history is rife with greats who missed a deciding penalty.

Not really. If you have someone who is a regular penalty taker leaving them until 5th is daft (or worse letting them decide they will go 5th for the glory) because you might not even get to them.

Better to have them go early and give you the best chance of scoring.
 
It would be really hard for a neutral/non messi fan to justify their support for this team.
Cried like babies when they got hit and celebrated like babies when they won. The most disgusting was the way the ref crawled on his knees for Messi.Awarded him free kicks every time he lost the ball. Didn’t even give him a yellow at the WC’s most obvious handball.
 
I missed that. What did they do?
Someone posted videos in an earlier post on this thread. But 3/4 Dutch players kept walking over to the Argentina players when they were walking up to take the penalty. The ref and other Argentina players had to stop this at least twice.

I'm guessing they didn't exactly say nice words. And Otamendi referenced that incident and said their celebration in front of the Dutch was 'justified' because of it.
 
What's wrong with being competitive and showing passion? A bit of trash talk and winding up the opposition is fine and has been a part of sport for decades. No need to be so soft about it
It is ok during the game. But after the game? Silly, and it's not like this happens every other game in football.
 
Someone tell Argies that it was not the final yet.



I'm also glad that Lisandro is not on this picture. They have clearly the better team and deserved it more but this is utter classless garbage esp. form Otamendi and E.Martinez. I also wanted to gice credit to Messi but then saw the other picture and the "Bobo" video. Between Ronaldo and Messi it went from competition of who is the GOAT to who is more childish.
FjkYKvNXkAAwpsL

To be honest Messi is a Sunday League exponent of childish behaviour compared to Cristiano.
 
Only seems to be Argentina playing the victim which is why many here are criticising them after the fact and not the Dutch players for relatively equal shit housery. Unless I'm just not seeing the Dutch sourgrapes post game.
Things like this really spice up the game for me. Both teams should just accept it's a heat of the moment thing, and move on from this.

I still don't find anything wrong with their celebration. Sure, it's a bit childish, but who cares. I'm sure the Dutch were more upset with them losing more than anything else.
 
Not really. If you have someone who is a regular penalty taker leaving them until 5th is daft (or worse letting them decide they will go 5th for the glory) because you might not even get to them.

Better to have them go early and give you the best chance of scoring.

Well, at the very least it's way over the top to talk about this as if it was a game-deciding blunder, which quite a few people seem to do. Regular taker or not, I rather doubt Neymars likelihood of scoring would have been very dramatically different from that of the other penalty takers.
 
Things like this really spice up the game for me. Both teams should just accept it's a heat of the moment thing, and move on from this.

I still don't find anything wrong with their celebration. Sure, it's a bit childish, but who cares. I'm sure the Dutch were more upset with them losing more than anything else.

I thought all the antics made for amazing entertainment. I loved it when the Dutch bench rushed the pitch. Box office stuff. All made for one of the most enjoyable WC matches I can remember.
 
So they are basing this whole thing on the fact that two players talked to each other after the game :lol:

By that logic, we'll be signing a lot of players in Jan.
No. Someone said about him not being with the ones taunting the Netherlands players. I said the BBC showed him consoling Gakpo. I meant more to prove they aren't all dickheads.
 
I thought all the antics made for amazing entertainment. I loved it when the Dutch bench rushed the pitch. Box office stuff. All made for one of the most enjoyable WC matches I can remember.
Absolutely agreed with you there. Stuff like this only makes the entertainment value better.
 
I thought all the antics made for amazing entertainment. I loved it when the Dutch bench rushed the pitch. Box office stuff. All made for one of the most enjoyable WC matches I can remember.

Agreed. There's a difference between one team shithousing and genuine mutual enmity. Shows commitment and competitiveness, and certainly added to the appeal of the game. Very respectable from both teams. Given the nature of the game, the Dutch can't complain about Otamendi making faces at them.
 
Had to record it last night and only watched it this morning without knowing what happened.

Might be the most dramatic match I've watched in a long long LONG time. Incredible.

There's is nothing like the World Cup.
 
Can’t believe the scenes from yesterday, such drama.

Also, can’t wait to see this place when one of Ronaldo or Harry Maguire lift the trophy in a couple of weeks.
 
Agreed. There's a difference between one team shithousing and genuine mutual enmity. Shows commitment and competitiveness, and certainly added to the appeal of the game. Very respectable from both teams. Given the nature of the game, the Dutch can't complain about Otamendi making faces at them.

Surely there's zero respect between top level professionals now?

They'll do whatever it takea to get the win.
 
I thought all the antics made for amazing entertainment. I loved it when the Dutch bench rushed the pitch. Box office stuff. All made for one of the most enjoyable WC matches I can remember.

Agreed, absolutely loved the aggro from both sides in this match... It just adds to everything.

Too many of these WC games have been nicey nice... Think it only really kicked off in the Serbia vs Swiss game so far.
 
Had to record it last night and only watched it this morning without knowing what happened.

Might be the most dramatic match I've watched in a long long LONG time. Incredible.

There's is nothing like the World Cup.

Great work avoiding spoilers. It was such an unbelievable game. Watched it with my son and he said it was the most exciting game of football he’s ever watched. I like the idea that he’ll be telling his kids about one of the 2022 quarter final matches one day.
 
I don’t like the behaviour from the Argies after the game but i bet the Dutch players weren’t saints either. All silly handbags really
 
Great work avoiding spoilers. It was such an unbelievable game. Watched it with my son and he said it was the most exciting game of football he’s ever watched. I like the idea that he’ll be telling his kids about one of the 2022 quarter final matches one day.

I don't mess around... Phone was on airplane mode from 7:00pm yesterday!

At one point my dad rang the missus and I told her to hang up on him :lol:

But yeah genuinely brilliant game, will be remembered for a long time I think.
 
I don’t like the behaviour from the Argies after the game but i bet the Dutch players weren’t saints either. All silly handbags really

It's just football, i can live with that. It was the game of the tournament thus far. 1974, 1978, 1998, 2014, 2022, this is shaping up to become one of the greatest WC rivalries.
 
I don't understand why the Dutch were so passive in 30 mins ET. They barely threatened Argentina in that half hour.
 
I don't understand why the Dutch were so passive in 30 mins ET. They barely threatened Argentina in that half hour.
Because the upfront players were all overrated except for maybe Gakpo. Some players just like to rest and relax. Examples are Theo Walcott, Martial, Lacazette, FDJ yawns who cares about the world cup...
 
I feel like I was watching a different game to everyone else. I was bored stiff after Argentina's first goal until Weghorst scored :nervous:
Most were. The Dutch were impressively poor and toothless up until then.
 
Lot of people need to get a grip here. Netherlands would have done the exact same thing had they won the shootout. A very heated game, always only ever has one outcome.
 
Surely there's zero respect between top level professionals now?

They'll do whatever it takea to get the win.

What I meant by "respectable" is I think they both showed huge competitiveness and spirit.

Doing whatever it takes to get the win is also a part of what being a top level professional is essentially about, yes? Don't see why what happened there should imply a lack of respect. Those were two teams absolutely determined to get the win. I'd be surprised if the players, and least of all the biggest professionals among them, end up holding any grudges over what transpired.
 
Yeah they were better team across the game,however fear Croatia will get caught up in the dark arts like Netherlands did.
Fear? Why fear! Argentina's world cup ends with Croatia. No matter the result :D
 
Because, at 2-2, they had something to lose. It's easier to simply say "feck it" and throw the kitchen sink in when you are two goals down with 20 minutes to go.
And also your opponent is busy defending the lead and letting you walk the ball to the final third without opposition
 
Someone tell Argies that it was not the final yet.



I'm also glad that Lisandro is not on this picture. They have clearly the better team and deserved it more but this is utter classless garbage esp. form Otamendi and E.Martinez. I also wanted to gice credit to Messi but then saw the other picture and the "Bobo" video. Between Ronaldo and Messi it went from competition of who is the GOAT to who is more childish.
FjkYKvNXkAAwpsL


:lol: People here would clearly prefer that players don't give a shit
 
@colombianmancunian @Andycoleno9

this is why. You guys act like Argentina just did stuff out of nowhere when they never did anything like this in this tournament.

there you go, it was definitely provoked and boiling over
why is problem to embrace that your team is shithousing? It is your style. Accept it and that is it. Your team do that often. And it is always some excuse. If that happens once, ok. Twice...ok. But if that is happening regulary then it is a pattern, right?

For example, what LVG did say or not is irrelevant. He is 70y old manager. He deserves respect. As a manager and as an old man. Messi behaviour towards him was pathetic. Celebrating in face of Holland players was also pathetic. And there is no excuse for it.
 
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Good manners and sportmaship are concepts deeply rooted in british values, which in turn clashes with argentina's idiosyncrasy of might makes right and winner takes all.

This does not translate on being mean and a douche, but once the scale are tipped and affronts have been made, it turns into a free for all.
 
According to Scaloni Messi was mad that Van Gaal said prematch that while he's a fantastic player, he does feck all defensively which is an advantage for us.

Justified then, how dare he.
 
According to Scaloni Messi was mad that Van Gaal said prematch that while he's a fantastic player, he does feck all defensively which is an advantage for us.

Justified then, how dare he.

If you're going to make comments like that don't then act surprised when a player uses it as motivation to do well and prove you wrong. Lots of crying on here
 
What I meant by "respectable" is I think they both showed huge competitiveness and spirit.

Doing whatever it takes to get the win is also a part of what being a top level professional is essentially about, yes? Don't see why what happened there should imply a lack of respect. Those were two teams absolutely determined to get the win. I'd be surprised if the players, and least of all the biggest professionals among them, end up holding any grudges over what transpired.

No I don't think so. Plenty of other sports where top level professionals don't cheat and play these games. The competition is still as fierce if not more so.

Faking injury/pain to get your opponent into trouble, trying to put your opponent off before a big moment etc. It's just normalised now in football.

It might be entertaining but I think respect for fellow professionals is at an all time low.