I mean he didn't prove him wrong. He doesn't do anything defensively? That's not what he's there for
Day 18: Croatia vs Brazil | Netherlands vs Argentina (QF 1&2)
- Thread starter Samid
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What the Dutch did: talking to the opponents before they took the penalties were not against the rules.
The rule is when the penalty is taken, the other outfield players must be in the circle or further away or something. So there was still time period in which the penalty was not taken yet and players can roam around the field without getting a yellow.
Dumb of lvg really.
The trick is always to play mind game before the game and said that he's very good but not to the point of destroying your own team morale. After the game, then laugh at them if you win.
Dutch comments were pathetic. It’s weird how you are so blind to what the Dutch did but only Argentina is the bad guy. And we never saw any shit housing this tourney from Argentina but all of a sudden it comes out during this match? You have a weird bias when I’m showing you evidence to the contrary. Dutch acted like jerks too, something obviously triggered Argentina and Dutch comments leading up to the match are pathetic.Van gaal should have more respect for the opposition. Same goes for the Dutch players. This squad didn’t shithouse until this match.
your comments are pathetic and Croatia absolutely shit house themselves as well. Argentina didn’t do anything of this against ANY of their previous opponents. Your comments are more pathetic than Argentina’s towards the Dutch
Yeah acting big when you're winning is just a bit too much, imo. Going to Van Gaal's face twice and giving it the billy big bolllocks when he and Edgar Davids were listening respectfully isn't a good look for Messi. Neither is having a go at Weghourst when he asked to shake hands.
They're acting big because they won and they have Croatia next, but if they were on the same side of the bracket as France, England or Portugal any one of those teams would dump them out.
Is this the actual context? I keep reading different things. Shocking if true though.
Ronaldo winning actively hurts United, why would you want that?
Last WC when we won 3:0 in group stage Argentina players stormed out of field without having decency to congratulate. And it was a clear win in a clear game.
As i said; your team is shithousing? Embrace it. Just like United fans did with Lisandro, Bruno and Antony.
Name one thing. One. We are big in defeat and polite in a win. You.......are not.
It doesn't hurt United at all, he's irrelevant to the club now.
Having two important players with a world cup win to their name would benefit United a lot.
The narrative would be Ronaldo was right that United screwed him over. Every pundit saying United unfairly treated him and the club is in shambles.
We played Croatia in high pressure games where you guys actually lost and your composure was remarkable. No comparison. I'm portuguese and I have no problem admitting our antics. Not really pleased with Ronaldo atm but if he did what Messi did yesterday we would have a one thousand pages thread here.
I don't think you're going to find a team sport with contact where that doesn't happen, fairly routibely. And I simply don't agree that it's unprofessional.
If they want to take that stance they’ll do it regardless, and I say let them. Give the players a point to prove that they’re their own team and have it within them to leave egg on the pundits face.
Don't remind me
. Only NT who we still didn't beat.Yeah, as i always say; what happens on the pitch, stays there. I don't mind antics during the game (without going too far of course, like kicking the ball at opposition bench
).But when game is over then have some dignity, congratulate opponent and shake hand. In win or lose.That yesterday was the most pathetic stuff which i have ever saw on World cups.
Difficult to create that narrative when he’s not starting games. Santos dropping him and Portugal going all the way only further shows ETH was right surely?
Did he prove him wrong though? He played like a great player who does feck all defensively. Hardly a reason to act like a prick. Same with Di Maria who said Van Gaal is shite and Van Gaal responds by saying Di Maria id a fantastic player who had a hard time at United.
Of course we're crying, we lost. What's their excuse?
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Rugby? Ice Hockey? Womens football?
Or can you imagine Stephen Hendry on the back to win the world championship and Ronnie O'Sullivan is in his ear putting him off? And everybody being ok with it?
Football has normalised these things.
.
Wow, so they mocked Holland players after winning, abusing old man LVG, talking shit to players, swearing. What a bunch of nice guys.
I am now more surprised by Holland players. They just stood there and allowed all that trashing. Weghorst should have bitch slap Aguero there.
Wow, so they mocked Holland players after winning, abusing old man LVG, talking shit to players, swearing. What a bunch of nice guys.
I am now more surprised by Holland players. They just stood there and allowed all that trashing. Weghorst should have bitch slap Aguero there.
Yeah, but Vangle said Messi doesnt track back.
Two of those sports what you’re saying is factually inaccurate (fake blood anyone?, if you think there isn’t diving and shithousing in women’s football then you’re definitely not watching) and ice hockey I simply don’t know anything about, but given a large part of the sport is straight fist fights I’m going to suggest that also isn’t true.
I'd actually argue there isn't and it's even worse in other sports. In the NFL you have teams that have been caught issuing fecking bounties to incentivize deliberately injuring other players (probably the worst especially considering the CTE factor) and more (like New England being blatantly caught), in baseball you have teams caught stealing the hand signals for pitchers and illegally communicating them to the batter (blatant cheating) and in those American sports and many top Olympic sports, you have players caught using steroids and other performance drugs (not a problem in world football due to it not offering an advantage - trading off agility for strength is undesirable).
While you can certainly say you don't like the play-acting, I'd argue it's a lesser degree of cheating than the examples I mentioned above that occur in other professional sports and its probably unavoidable as there will always be people who think the tradeoff of cheating for glory is worth it.
Ice Hockey has such blatantly cheating/breaking the rules that they have fecking first fights as a "penalty" that stuff. Plus you have plenty of articles like this. Or this:
Very late to this, but has anyone heard any explanation about why the Argie wasn't sent off for blasting a shot into the Dutch bench? Not wanting to channel my inner Fergie here, but if a physio, or a player had been sitting in that spot and looking the other way, they coudl have been very, very badly hurt.
That is so far outside of what is permitted in football it has me absolutely astonished nothign has been said about it. To the point where the only conclusion I can come to is that yesterday's official was heavily 'instructed' that there be no red cards.
Gary Neville once got sent off for flicking a ball into the stands, rather gently.
That is so far outside of what is permitted in football it has me absolutely astonished nothign has been said about it. To the point where the only conclusion I can come to is that yesterday's official was heavily 'instructed' that there be no red cards.
Gary Neville once got sent off for flicking a ball into the stands, rather gently.
Are you angry on your players reaction? Tbh, if they do that to us next game (and they will) i would expect from our players to kick the shit in them.
It is always funny for me when some midget like Aguero or Messi are talking shit to big guys like Weghorst or Van Dijk (from safe distance).
Weghorst alone could have brake Aguero and Lisandro on half.
I think its obvious I'm not saying there's never been a single incident of cheating in Rugby or Ice hockey or anyother team sport.
But cheating, faking injury to get your opponent punished etc, this is just normal now. Happens every game.
Fist fights aren't cheating. You can dislike it but it's not the ridiculous stuff we see in football.
I'm amazed anyone can defend today's game in this sense.
You're conflating incidents of cheating with routine cheating. I'm not defending the former but this conversation is about respect between professionals.
In which other sport do you see top players faking pain so often to get their fellow professional punished?
But even if other sports were as bad(they're not), I'm talking about football here and what goes on within games.
I dunno. We werent blameless during the match. It seems though that it started kicking off when Lahoz failed to not give Messi the most obvious yellow card in history which is obviously rather annoying. Then I'm not sure what Paredes was thinking, but it was all out handbags.
I like to see this end after a match, but it didnt. I'm happy they didnt start a brawl in the catacombs. We lost, it sucks, but doing it gracefully is better than being cnuts.
ohh tough guy in the room
Not at all. Quite opposite
. But i find these kind situations funny. Aguero saying to Weghorst to shut up. If they were alone, would he then say that? I don't think so.Messi:
Leo Messi ️: “I don't like people talking before games. The 19th (Weghorst) came and started to provoke us, bump into us, tell us things. Their coach was not respectful to us either.”
️: “It seemed disrespectful to me, that a coach of his caliber declared like that. Van Gaal does not respect the Argentina National Team.”
️: “I don't like people talking before matches. That's not part of football. I always respect everyone, but I like to be respected too. And they were not respectful to us before the game.”
Clear now ?
All of this stuff is a result of the passion in the World Cup and why it is so amazing. Remember Zidane headbutt in the final?
- Argentina were by far the better team but great credit should be given to the Netherlands for never giving up.
- I think Messi's vendetta against LVG might also be the fact LVG trashed Di Maria. Yes DM started it but a coach should always take the high ground.
- The referee should never do another high profile match again. However, I wonder if FIFA told the refs to not give any red cards except in extreme cases. Players learn this and react accordingly and both teams went too far.
- My first reaction to the Messi handball was because Messi thought the other player handled it also so he wanted to play quickly.
- Gakpo is good because he is agile and tall. I'm not convinced, though, that we will be a great player and I admit I haven't seen much of him.
- LVG had a heck of a plan B knowing he could exploit the height deficiencies of Argentina. Taking Romero off made it just that much worse.
- I felt drained after the game it was so emotional....what drama.
- Argentina were by far the better team but great credit should be given to the Netherlands for never giving up.
- I think Messi's vendetta against LVG might also be the fact LVG trashed Di Maria. Yes DM started it but a coach should always take the high ground.
- The referee should never do another high profile match again. However, I wonder if FIFA told the refs to not give any red cards except in extreme cases. Players learn this and react accordingly and both teams went too far.
- My first reaction to the Messi handball was because Messi thought the other player handled it also so he wanted to play quickly.
- Gakpo is good because he is agile and tall. I'm not convinced, though, that we will be a great player and I admit I haven't seen much of him.
- LVG had a heck of a plan B knowing he could exploit the height deficiencies of Argentina. Taking Romero off made it just that much worse.
- I felt drained after the game it was so emotional....what drama.
Some things i can understand. Especially because emotions were high and shit. But some i can't. Like Messi's and Martinez reaction to LVG.
But hey, that is just me. If my team did that, who knows what would i think. Maybe i would be also delighted how my players reacted.
Anyway..........lets put this to bed. I hope for good game (without antics) on Tuesday and lets better team win.
The ref had no control nor any cohones to do something that drastic. The dangerous tackle leading to this incident was a yellow offense and then deliberately kicking the ball towards the bench/stands was worthy of a second yellow. Probably gets sent off in a domestic or continental match.
Messi also should have earned a yellow for a deliberate handball, though the ref may not have booked him in extra-time for his string of fouls and whining. There was a possibly penalty shout late in the second half when a Gakpo went down in the box, one passing mention from commentary but no replay. Was surprised to not see any look at that. Scroll to the 76:00 mark and watch the next 15 seconds. Looked worthy of a review for sure, possibly nothing in it, possibly a dive, possibly clipped his feet.
https://www.foxsports.com/replay/d0e0e1678898ec435dd14327bab1d88f
Good luck and I bet you that none of what happened against the Dutch will happen next Tuesday, win or lose.
Weghorst just said he went over to Messi to shake his hand, because he admires him etc and Messi slapped aways his hand and told him to feck off, which was what started this row. Aguero then said, why do you want to shake his hand after such tension, dumbass.
Weghorst could be lying of course.
In any sport with contact there will be some form of "routine cheating", it's just going to manifest differently in each sport based on the specific rules. In ice hockey, it manifests in the form of illegal strikes with a stick and illegal hits on other players among other things. Those forms of routine cheating have normalized fist-fighting as a way to both retaliate and intimidate other teams. Personally, I find that type of routine cheating a lot more annoying than diving in football, hence why I don't watch ice hockey. if I want to watch fighting, I'll watch UFC, don't want to watch that in another sport.
Plus I'd rather diving (which almost never affects my enjoyment of a match) than the alternative, which would be players continually pushing to see what kind of rough tackles and fouls they could get away with. I certainly wouldn't want football like hockey where the actual playing of the game is stopped for a fistfight is normalized. I'll refer to the quote below again from an article specifically on routine cheating in ice hockey.
What, you actually think that doesn't happen in ice hockey?! Been watching a lot of that then, have you?
Oh contraire, even if there was a tiny bit of contact, I'm not convinced there was a foul. The dive, however, was clear to see. It's bloody hard for refs.
Okay, let me take the time to respond more thoroughly.
The rugby example you brought up; I haven't got a clue - I've never heard of the two individuals you mention, and for that matter I couldn't name a single rugby player, dead or alive. In other words, I know nothing about Rugby. Which of course makes me realise I was rash in arguing this sort of thing happens in every contact team sport. It happens in any contact team sport I know anything about.
However, I do know a bit about ice hockey, and I don't think you do if you imagine that industrial grade shithousery doesn't occur on a regular basis in hockey. There are top players who have that as a key part of their image and identity - such as Esa Tikkanen, who was famous for his effectiveness in tight marking of the opposition's top players, in no small part through unnerving and constant nattering at them in Finnish. Trash talk is endemic, and no one frowns on attempts to put opponents off their game through more or less any means available. This is of course also a sport where it's considered perfectly normal (at least in North America) to respond to completely legal tackles by attempting to beat up the player delivering the tackle. You'll get sent to the penalty box for it, but no one would suggest it shows a lack of professionalism.
Now, football. My main point here is there's many ways to do football. There's the picture-perfect one, with players delivering superb displays of skill while sticking to the rules and behaving with mutual respect and courtesy. That football can and does exist. But it's not the only kind, and ultimately football, like every team sport, rewards those who win. And "professionalism" in effect means possesing the qualities that make that happen. If that means not playing it nice, then a top professional does not play it nice. There's risk to it - fouls, yellows, reds, the possibility of stoking the opposition morale rather than sapping it - but ultimately that's a question of calculation, not professionalism. As in hockey, there are great players who have made their careers to a considerable extent on their ability to exploit that space (Italy's CBs in the 70s and 80s,, for example - Gentile, Scirea etc). Every team with ambition want that kind of player.
It may not be the most attractive kind of football, but there's always going to be a gray zone, and it's really up to refs and federations to set and enforce its limits. If one team resorts to that approach and the other team doesn't respond in kind, then you're always going to sympathise with the latter and expect the ref to ensure it doesn't pay. But the Dutch did respond in kind, and it looked very much to me like they were a better team for it. They needed that spark, and thrived on it. Sometimes a game just goes in that direction. That's about competitive fire and determination, and for my part I don't think that's either unprofessional or boring. And it really doesn't happen that much in football. I have to say I think you have a pretty weak case arguing that this is something that football has infected other sports with.
Who says otherwise??? LVG being a cnut, doesn’t stop Lelo Menso from being a cnut.