Kroos has been brilliant both games. I really hope he doesn't do anything silly and go to Madrid.
Day 10: Germany vs. Ghana
- Thread starter gooDevil
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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29 degrees is beach weather, not footy weather!
OK, you're right, I should have put it better: It was probably not meant as racism, but of course it was. Nevertheless, let's not blow two low-IQ drunken idiots out of proportion.
Quite a good game overall. The second half was very entertaining with plenty of chances for both sides to score a winning goal. Ghana really should have defended better during the key moments of their first match which led to an unfortunate defeat. As it stands, they have a minimal chance of progressing from the group even after securing an impressive draw against a strong German team.
Should be dealt with nonetheless. Idiocy doesn't excuse anything.
Ghana made me proud! I would've taken a 2-2 at the start yet I feel like we should have won the game. Jordan ye selfish basterd!
I'm stealing this!
I'm stealing this!That's great logic.
"In my culture [a race] are seen as inferior, so I'm not going to give you this job because you're [a race]. But it's not racist because that's just how it is in my culture"
I'm black and i don't see what's racist in that, it's just not very funny.
THIS. It's just a poor, poor excuse, reminds of the Suarez fiasco, it's ok because the word is common place in his language and culture. He doesn't know any better., blablabal.
Over the years I understood there will always be Kroos lovers and not-lovers. I'm one of the letter.
Kroos was very good against a 10 (!) men Portugal team. Tonight I found him extremely ineffective. Passing as such might be an art but it is not any helpful if it doesn't open spaces for your team. He didn't even do any long cross to the open side.
On Kroos' playing tonight I completely missed the forward drive that Schweinsteiger brought in the very minute he came in. Schweinsteiger turned around the match. While Kroos kept passing around.
I think Kroos had a good game today, many good and important tacklings, some nice forward passes , good workrate again.
Well then you completely misunderstand the role Kroos plays. He isn't ever going to be a dynamic, box-to-box aggressor. Bastian was there for that, and if he started over the donkey Khedira the midfield would've been more effective. The amount of accurate through balls Kroos put in today was brilliant. And regardless of whether or not Portugal had 10 or 11 men, he was directly involved in all of the four goals, and really did boss the game.
While I'm very happy for Klose, I'm gutted Ghana didn't win this. Neuer and Hummels with good (= honest) post-match interview (i.e. that similar problems existed against Portugal which were masked by the four goals), Löw and Fipsi Lahm delusional as always.
Now it's your turn, Klinsmann!
Now it's your turn, Klinsmann!
The overrating of Kroos continues. He was bang average today and Germany looked far better after Scweini's introduction.
Agreed, I didn't see anything great about his game today. Ozil though was great.
With the humidity it was equivalent to 35 degrees. It might not have been Quatar weather, but it's definitely way hotter than European Spring/Fall weather when the regular season takes place.
Ya because Khedira was out... Kroos had 125 touches, by far the most and once again the best pass accuracy (90%), 10 of 12 long balls were accurate, he put Müller clean through on the goal, delivered the corner which lead to the 2:2, won the most tackles together with Hummels and Götze etc.
It was certainly no brilliant performance but it was a good one and Kroos was once again very reliable in his game while Lahm and Khedira struggled MASSIVELY, you know the experienced players who are supposed to lead the team...
Yeah, there is the difference between you and me: I think Kroos didn't boss nothing today. While Schweinsteiger bossed the match immediately when he entered the pitch.
Agreed. Kroos out, Ozil in the middle and Schurrle on the right would be a huge improvement in the attack.
I meant he bossed the Portugal game. I don't think anyone in particular 'bossed' this game, but Kroos was probably the best midfielder. Schweinsteiger's impact on the game worked well too - gave real impetus going forward whilst Kroos kept things ticking with solid ball retention and strong vision.
Kroos played ok tonight. He had a very tough time though, didn't get any support from Khedira or Lahm.
Schweinsteiger should start the next game instead of Khedira, and I think it's best if we move Lahm back to Fullback.
Also notice how the game completely turned when Jerome Boateng went off and Mustafi went on...
Schweinsteiger should start the next game instead of Khedira, and I think it's best if we move Lahm back to Fullback.
Also notice how the game completely turned when Jerome Boateng went off and Mustafi went on...
Bossing the midfield against a reduced team is not really difficult, TBH.
He was already "bossing" the game before the sending off...
Kroos was NOT the reason we played below par tonight.
He was ok today - that is a lot because he normally goes hiding in this kind of matches. But the match against Portugal already showed that he is physically in a great shape. But Lahm had a really miserable day - if he misplaces passes every defender in the world will look stupid. It is this kind of matches in which I believe Javi Martinez for Bayern in defensive midfield is a great asset. In other matches the solution with Lahm on the 6 is great - and usually Lahm ain't no liability.
Khedira was ok in the first half - but in the second half you remarked that he still needs time. Löw wanted to bring Schweinsteiger (who is recovering, too) already for him in the first match but because of Hummels' injury he did not. The best right now is to let them both do a jobsharing.
Özil on the 10 is a lot more instabile. As long we play Müller as a striker - as much as I know Klose just ain't ready for doing the full 90 minutes - we can play a 4-3-3. With Klose I prefer Özil behind Klose and Müller on the right. This three are still the magic triangle. It makes sense to usually play Götze on the left - as you see him and Müller have a good understanding even if usually is Müller who gives the assists and Götze that has the goal.
But then I would like to see a fully fit Khedira and a fully fit Schweinsteiger behind that. That is not a formation I want Kroos in - as good as his passing game is - but behind Özil you need two players that can really play defense, too.
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But Khedira is NOT a player for the defense. He has won less duels, tacklings etc. than Kroos so far and I don't know from where people get the idea that Khedira is some kind of defensive mid. He is simply an average CM but nothing more and if you want more defensive stability you will have to play Lahm/Schweinsteiger/Kroos in the center just like Bayern did (and they had their best matches last season with them).
Özil on the other hand is simply not reliable enough in the center and will always expose the players behind him. I actually liked him more on the wings so far, he was decent in both games and better than in his last games as AM for Germany. The attack is anyways not our problem, we will create chances with Müller/Özil/Götze/Kroos and score goals but we need more defensive stability.
In all honesty, as much as I love the magic Mesut has in him, I would not play him at all anymore. All the matches from now on are live-or-die type of matches. And for the defense part of the game Mesut simply doesn't exist. The best thing you can expect off him is his ballet-dancer defence approach which drives me crazy every time. Calling him a defence liability is true exaggerating, he is much worse. For our team it means defending with ten men. I'd rather play Goetze at the 10. He is not great when defending but at least he's not afraid of body contact.
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I did not come up with the Özil no. 10 solution. I do not think that is the ideal solution with the players we have available right now for Germany. But Özil as no. 10 (and it was the talk about this) I just would not play with Kroos as long as their is not a really stealthy defensive midfielder behind. With a Martinez I could even see that. I do not see Khedira as a defensive mid - as well as Schweinsteiger is none - but both have a better defensive thinking than Kroos has. Kroos is starting to get better in duels - but he still is not the most eager person to track back. I do not know how it is right now as he like Müller seem to have a lot better physics than they had 2 months ago - even in the heat and humidity. Makes you question Pep's training...
I think the team right now is a good selection to all problems we have - maybe there is the question if you maybe take Schürrle instead of Özil. Klose lives very well with the joker role and it is probably better to bring him from the bench.
I was really disappointed of our display today. We looked like a team that thought it could just walk this game without much effort and after we scored the first goal we completely stopped playing football. We showed no desire to win the ball back and our attacking play was pretty half arsed.
Ghana played with a lot of heart today and would have been the deserved winner so some credit also has to go to them. It also payed off for them to man mark Lahm which forced Kroos to drop deeper and took a lot away from our attacking game.
I also think that Özil shouldn't start any games for us atm he is just not in good form and is only noticeable when he misplaces an easy pass. Khedira is another really weak spot and it shows that he hasn't gotten much games for Real this season, Schweinsteiger if fit should start ahead of him without a doubt.
Ghana played with a lot of heart today and would have been the deserved winner so some credit also has to go to them. It also payed off for them to man mark Lahm which forced Kroos to drop deeper and took a lot away from our attacking game.
I also think that Özil shouldn't start any games for us atm he is just not in good form and is only noticeable when he misplaces an easy pass. Khedira is another really weak spot and it shows that he hasn't gotten much games for Real this season, Schweinsteiger if fit should start ahead of him without a doubt.
I also believe that Khedira is the best defensive midfielder we have. Lahm needs to go to the right again. Which is a bit surprising to me. Lahm looked good in Bayern's midfield. But here and now it does not work at all. Two matches in a row where Lahm has played below his standards is completly unknown to anyone who has followed him in the past decade.
Khedira at the 6, Scheinsteiger in front of him, and Schuerrle, Mueller and Goetze in front of them. That's what I would start with. If necessary, we can always bring on Klose and Oezil.
Please God NO!!! Germany all the way. Not the Yank
If you don't have the Umlaut ö (or the others ä/ü) on your keyboard, they can alternatively be spelled oe/ue/ae. It's an actual rule in German.
Ozil was the best German player on the pitch. Just mind-boggling.
Still no defensive stability under Löw since he's made the switch to proactive football after the 2010 counterattacking layout. Allowing 19 shots and 2 goals with some tight offside decisions, last ditch defending and questionable Ghana decision making in the final third is very worrying. I don't think playing Lahm in midfield makes up for having 2 centerbacks as fullbacks either and Özil on the wing seems a bad idea as he's not the hardest working player to track fullbacks on the flank - nor does he have much stamina so even when he does track back he loses something in attack. Question marks over the strikerless system, too. Even Spain are trying to get away from it with Costa - they have been doing it out of necessity in Euro 2012 with Villa injured and Torres ... being Torres. There is not enough punch with Özil and Götze doing sweet things upfront and only Müller trying to actually put the ball into the net, especially when Kroos and Khedira don't score much from midfield either. The Portugal game was no benchmark. Red card, penalty and set piece goal against a demoralized side inflated the scoreline. I would be surprised if the first "big" team (possibly France in the quarter final) didn't end another Löw Cup run.
Second tournament in a row... Ghana are World Cup box office.
It's a shame we won't get to see Netherlands vs. Ghana at any point... that game would be crazy.
It's a shame we won't get to see Netherlands vs. Ghana at any point... that game would be crazy.
Wanting Kroos out of the starting eleven is absolutely ridiculous.
He is the best player we have in cm for initiating our attacks and isn't worse than Khedira defensively. What does Khedira even do? His positioning defensively is incredibly suspect, he doesn't win more tackles than Kroos, and he's not more athletic than for example the Ghanaian mids were today. Kroos has been the best German cm this season and has to be a starter.
The only thing you can dislike about his style of play is that he isn't the fastest and that he looks lethargic. But the lethargic look is only due to the way he runs and due to his expression. Khedira isn't notably faster than Kroos either. 2012 should've made everyone realize that Khedira as defensive cm isn't working for Germany.
I've said it before the World Cup, I've said it after the Portugal game, I've said it after the Ghana USA game and I'll say it now. That Ghana team is absolutely amazing and is a very disciplined African team with an amazing passing game. Their loss to the USA was half fluke half great motivational skills by Klinsmann. They bossed that game and should've won it. They probably would have too had their cb Boye not been asleep at the very start and the very end of the game.
I am happy for Ghana as I really wanted them to stay in the tournament. I really hope they beat Portugal and make it to the round of 16 that way. I think Germany, despite thinking it's a disaster, can live very well with this result. A draw isn't too bad and Germany can still comfortably get 1st in a group by beating the USA in the next game. Ghana should have already made the semis in 2010 and have definitely not gotten worse since then. They've actually probably even improved their passing game a bit.
As a German I'm glad we didn't lose this as that'd have meant we'd have been in deep shit. Great for Klose even though I don't really like him all that much.
But after that ridiculous 4-0 in the first game this game has to have been a wake up call! That joke of a back 4 that Löw considers to be genius because for some reason he thinks 4 CBs are better defensively than 2 CBs and 2 FBs got found out big time. I was a CB myself when I played actively and moving to FB doesn't mean you're automatically still great defensively. There's a lot that changes if you change the position and I'd much rather see people who are proven at FB do those jobs.
Mustafi at RB, what kind of sick joke is that??? Why does Löw love him so much? Before Reus got injured Großkreutz was the RB backup I'm guessing, Ginter the CB backup, and Durm the LB "backup". After Reus injury everyone was shocked Mustafi got called up instead of Volland. I was so sure Mustafi was going to be a typical Löw lovechild and once again Löw was predictable in his ridiculous squad decisions. Surely with Mustafi not having been in the squad initially he'd be behind Großkreutz at RB, behind Ginter at CB, and behind Durm at LB. You'd think that's the pecking order. But noooo, Mustafi has played in both of Germany's games, both times being the first player to come on off the bench, and he replaced a CB the first time and an RB the second time. How does that make sense? Was Löw's judgement when he initially left Mustafi out so shit? Or is he just once again being an absolute idiot now for playing an absolutely unproven player like Mustafi out of position at RB? Definitely the latter if you ask me! Großkreutz has played in a CL final, Durm has dealt with players like Cristiano Ronaldo in the Dortmund - Real games in the CL. Both are proven at the highest level and actual fullbacks now. Not only are we starting with center backs at our fullback position...also our first backup for the fullback position is a center back instead of an actual fullback for once. That's just completely brainless! Höwedes was a weak link in both games and he needs to be left on the bench. I hope Löw won't be stubborn and benches both Khedira and Höwedes.
That match pretty much shows you what's wrong with Lows set up. Its so unbalanced its not funny. I have no idea how germany have gone into the world cup with this lad given the responsibility to lead them to success. Any team that gets involved in a slug fest such as that against a team with inferior players just won't get it done when faced with a more formidable tactical outfit, with superior footballers. They were quite literally all over the place.
Lahm in midfield is a disaster waiting to happen. Just cause pep's using him there doesn't mean its a good idea. Firstly, you lose the worlds best fullback for a midfielder who is nothing better than just above average. Who thinks this trade off is a good idea? Surely he understands the concept of opportunity cost.
Khedira is coming off a really poor season himself. He's contributing very little at the moment and the way its set up its made for him to be an offensive box to box and he's really poor at that so why bother?
I'm not kroos' biggest fan and I doubt I'll ever be. Nothing I saw in that game is changing my mind any time soon. Although he was the better of the three, that's not all that difficult when its a fullback and a mid table player beside him.
The defence is really all over the place. While schmelzer isn't the greatest of left backs, atleast he's a left back. How does low think its a good idea to play with 4 center backs in defence?
A line up like this wouldve stood a better chance at this showpiece than what he's putting out:
-----------------Kiesling-------------
-Gotze--------Muller---------Ozil
---------Schwein-lars bender-----
Schmelzer-Hummels-Boateng-lahm
----------------Neuer---------------
First things first, he's got a problem or two with the best german striker nowadays so that's the first issue. Then he doesn't seem to rate lars bender much and chose to go to the world cup without the only german left back that represents anything resembling quality. For me bastian just has to play. Players like him make a big difference to the fortunes of a team. Maybe if he was poor you could remove him and get kroos in there but he had to be tested first IMO. Playing such an open game with mertersacker is always a risk as he's glacially slow. Rather boateng and hummels in the center back spots. If Heynkes was coaching with that line up out there they'd stroll this competition imo.
Lahm in midfield is a disaster waiting to happen. Just cause pep's using him there doesn't mean its a good idea. Firstly, you lose the worlds best fullback for a midfielder who is nothing better than just above average. Who thinks this trade off is a good idea? Surely he understands the concept of opportunity cost.
Khedira is coming off a really poor season himself. He's contributing very little at the moment and the way its set up its made for him to be an offensive box to box and he's really poor at that so why bother?
I'm not kroos' biggest fan and I doubt I'll ever be. Nothing I saw in that game is changing my mind any time soon. Although he was the better of the three, that's not all that difficult when its a fullback and a mid table player beside him.
The defence is really all over the place. While schmelzer isn't the greatest of left backs, atleast he's a left back. How does low think its a good idea to play with 4 center backs in defence?
A line up like this wouldve stood a better chance at this showpiece than what he's putting out:
-----------------Kiesling-------------
-Gotze--------Muller---------Ozil
---------Schwein-lars bender-----
Schmelzer-Hummels-Boateng-lahm
----------------Neuer---------------
First things first, he's got a problem or two with the best german striker nowadays so that's the first issue. Then he doesn't seem to rate lars bender much and chose to go to the world cup without the only german left back that represents anything resembling quality. For me bastian just has to play. Players like him make a big difference to the fortunes of a team. Maybe if he was poor you could remove him and get kroos in there but he had to be tested first IMO. Playing such an open game with mertersacker is always a risk as he's glacially slow. Rather boateng and hummels in the center back spots. If Heynkes was coaching with that line up out there they'd stroll this competition imo.
What a bunch of knobs even more reason for wanting Ghana to win
atcOh dear.
This apparently happened in the stands.
Kießling's international record: 3 goals in 15 CL matches (and he did not score against big teams) and 1 in 11 Euroleague matches. None in 6 matches for the national team. A player that might be good in the league but never could cut it internationally... - and he is well in a counter attacking environment. Sorry, that is actually not the department where Germany has any problems...
Lars Bender - injured and has not really shown great form all of the season
Schmelzer - was injured so often during the season and came to the camp injured.
Oh dear.
This apparently happened in the stands.
That famed world-class german sense of humour manifesting itself again.
They should just stick to making cars because they are not funny people.
Putting the question of racism to the side for the mo, I fail to see what could possibly be funny about that.
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