David Ornstein: Man Utd want to keep Marcus Rashford | Consideration of sale if Rashford wants to take on a new challenge or a substantial bid arrives

[surf]

He made an outstanding start at senior level but is now well past his best. Southgate saw that, dropped him from the squad altogether, and moved on to players who are better than him now. Unfortunately we can't do that and just sell him for a decent fee, and that's because of his ridiculous contract. But EtH can definitely drop him to the bench.

 

[Based Adnan]

I do wonder if the club hierarchy genuinely think of him as a superstar or see him for what he is

 

[saik]

The time to sell him was before his shiny new contract when PSG were interested in him. Now there's no chance he will go anywhere and PSG have a way better player in Barcola. Hope Chelsea do us a favor in return for Mount.

 

[Roane]

He made an outstanding start at senior level but is now well past his best. Southgate saw that, dropped him from the squad altogether, and moved on to players who are better than him now. Unfortunately we can't do that and just sell him for a decent fee, and that's because of his ridiculous contract. But EtH can definitely drop him to the bench.

Can he though?

I have been told by a prem football player that contracts these days are totally different to say SAF years.

They are very specific. Including specifics such as game time when fit and starting matches


Didn't Bellingham want something similar and Haaland I believe.

Knowing our past lot you can believe it was included with massive wage.

 

[Florida Man]

Can he though?

I have been told by a prem football player that contracts these days are totally different to say SAF years.

They are very specific. Including specifics such as game time when fit and starting matches


Didn't Bellingham want something similar and Haaland I believe.

Knowing our past lot you can believe it was included with massive wage.

I’ve wondered this for a while now. I know managers can be flawed and stubborn, but I can’t wrap my head around the favoritism I’ve seen in United managers post Fergie.

 

[Roane]

I’ve wondered this for a while now. I know managers can be flawed and stubborn, but I can’t wrap my head around the favoritism I’ve seen in United managers post Fergie.

I've heard a couple of footballers say it. My younger brother is friends with a prem footballer (man City) and he was telling us how contracts have changed and work.

Said a lot of things but mainly, and this is my words not his, that a SAF/Clough type manager would not work now. Would be dismissed for bullying/harassment etc.

Player contracts are so large and such detail that often it's not money why clubs decide not to sign a player.

He specifically said that minutes played is a big issue in player contracts.

 

[Bastian]

I do wonder if the club hierarchy genuinely think of him as a superstar or see him for what he is

There was some report about "last chance saloon" for him in the eyes of the INEOS crowd.

 

[Redivy]

So I was thinking about this, how Rashford, barring 2 seasons ago, doesn’t really seemed to have changed, never mind improve, as a player, since he broke onto the scene nearly 10years ago in early 2015.

Now let’s look at some of the players that Rashford has been with in that time:
- Wayne Rooney
- ⁠Falcao
- ⁠Di Maria
- ⁠Alexis Sanchez
- ⁠Zlatan Ibrahimovic
- ⁠Edinson Cavani
- ⁠Cristiano Ronaldo

These are some of THE best players who do what they do; hold the ball up, play others in, beat others with timing and skill, time runs to break line, making the right decisions and finish chances like a motherf*cker, yet he has plateaued at every, single, one of them attributes.

His finishing is fine, his decision making is atrocious, his choice of pass vs shot or pass vs beat a player is woeful, the runs he makes (when he can’t be arsed) are in straight lines without any skill.

It’s as though, with all of the amazing talent that he’s seen EVERY SINGLE DAY in training, and hasn’t learned anything from any of them!

How the feck can this be?

The problem isn’t that he just hasn’t improved, but a lot of the foundational aspects of his game have regressed.

In his second season I remember getting the feel that he doesn’t have world class potential due to his lack of technical abilities but that he would have a long career at United due to his work rate and hunger. One of those players that’s a cult hero and a real member of the fabric of the club.

Unfortunately his work rate got worse, his attitude got worse and he doesn’t seem hungry for it. That’s why the fans turn on him, it’s because he shows no desire to be out there.

In the Amad thread I was heavily critical of his performance, but you can still see that he wants to do better, and that’s the game went on he tried a few different things, and when he noticed how much space he had in behind, he made that same run again and again. He started to read the game, and this is something Rashford just doesn’t do.

 

[Tiber]

300k a week to contribute nothing is such a waste

 

[croadyman]

Please PSG or Barca take him

 

[Vernon Philander]

He got obliterated by Shearer about his constant offside positioning. Such a low IQ player and this was known years ago

 

[In Absentia]

It’s a pretty disappointing start to the season from him. Just the same sort of Rashford as last year. Less moaning and more working needed.

How could you be disappointed? You must have known it would be bad. He's a really poor footballer.

 

[croadyman]

There was some report about "last chance saloon" for him in the eyes of the INEOS crowd.

Oh please let that be true

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He’s working harder which is a big improvement from last year but the quality is sorely lacking. Need to sell him this summer (we won’t).

 

[mav_9me]

He’s working harder which is a big improvement from last year but the quality is sorely lacking. Need to sell him this summer (we won’t).

While he is working harder, he needs to work even harder honestly. Like compare him to what Saka, Salah etc do he is sorely lacking.

 

[The Man With The Red Face]

We're short up front and have no realistic chance of a replacement at this stage so Rashford stays for another season of searing mediocrity.
I really don't think we've had a good summer. We haven't addressed any of the glaring problems were all knew we had a year ago.

 

[Malons]

His PR pushback always follows the pattern.

He stays late at training

He arrives early to training

He has been asking Ronaldo how to get better

Now the 'he's trying to get tips off RvN' story is out there. The only person who would leak any of these stories is the player himself. Nobody else will see a player talking to someone else at the club and think this is a huge scoop that they must leak to a reporter.

 

[Borys]

I’ve wondered this for a while now. I know managers can be flawed and stubborn, but I can’t wrap my head around the favoritism I’ve seen in United managers post Fergie.

Rashford has never been this bad (for such a long period at least) and we also never had really good alternatives like we do now. So Ten Hag takes it to the extreme still playing him.

IMO this is not about contract but maybe more about player power. ETH position is super weak now and I doubt he'll risk unsettling the squad with unpopular opinion. Although you've got to question if this is still unpopular..

 

[sugar_kane]

Rashford has never been this bad (for such a long period at least) and we also never had really good alternatives like we do now. So Ten Hag takes it to the extreme still playing him.

IMO this is not about contract but maybe more about player power. ETH position is super weak now and I doubt he'll risk unsettling the squad with unpopular opinion. Although you've got to question if this is still unpopular..

I agree with the broader point about player power but I get the impression that Rashford is a bit of an outsider in the dressing room these days

He seems close to Sancho (which says a lot) but in general I think he’s a bit of a loner.

The insistence on starting him seems to stem more from the hope he will reignite at some point, coupled with doubts on Garnacho / wanting to keep him grounded.

Also the fact he’s our highest paid player with Casemiro is a problem - you need those individuals to be soon as indispensable otherwise why pay them so much?

I think the penny is going to drop soon enough though, and he’ll be out of the starting 11 in the next couple of months.

 

[Josep Dowling]

The club can’t gloss over it anymore. He’s been shockingly bad for 18 months now. He cannot do the basics as a Premier League footballer. He can’t pass, he can’t get past his man and he can’t score.

Also he was subbed off yesterday right next to the United fans. He didn’t even acknowledge the fans until they started booing him and he gave a half hearted clap. His attitude stinks. If he had Sancho written on the back of his shirt the manager would want him sold.

 

[2 man midfield]

There was some report about "last chance saloon" for him in the eyes of the INEOS crowd.

If there’s a saloon, you can’t bet he’s in there

 

[crossy1686]

There was some report about "last chance saloon" for him in the eyes of the INEOS crowd.

It's been mooted multiple times by the likes of Andy Mitten and the Athletic that Rashford is on senior player wages and needs to put in senior player performances otherwise things will change.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

We'll probably have to wait for when he is up for a renewal to perform, score 63 goals and get a 800k weekly contract for 6 years

 

[Desert Eagle]

Rashford has never been this bad (for such a long period at least) and we also never had really good alternatives like we do now. So Ten Hag takes it to the extreme still playing him.

IMO this is not about contract but maybe more about player power. ETH position is super weak now and I doubt he'll risk unsettling the squad with unpopular opinion. Although you've got to question if this is still unpopular..

I think Rashford has played so poorly he has no power in the dressing room anymore especially with Amad and Garnacho waiting to take his spot. The Bruno problem is another matter though. After subbing him for the first time in ages, there were already little signs of unhappiness. If ETH loses the support of his hand picked captain then he might as well pack his bags now.

 

[crossy1686]

I think Rashford has played so poorly he has no power in the dressing room anymore especially with Amad and Garnacho waiting to take his spot. The Bruno problem is another matter though. After subbing him for the first time in ages, there were already little signs of unhappiness. If ETH loses the support of his hand picked captain then he might as well pack his bags now.

This sounds like fantasy role play. There were no signs of unhappiness, he jogged off the pitch to boo's from the Brighton fans, he smiled then sat down. What did you read into that?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

It’s a shame where we are now

Remember his breakout season, always smiling, jumping into the crowd to celebrate

I don’t dislike Rashford but it’s clear he needs a new challenge. And the club need a fresh start too

 

[Judas]

I think Rashford has played so poorly he has no power in the dressing room anymore especially with Amad and Garnacho waiting to take his spot. The Bruno problem is another matter though. After subbing him for the first time in ages, there were already little signs of unhappiness. If ETH loses the support of his hand picked captain then he might as well pack his bags now.

What?

 

[Desert Eagle]

What?

He had a bemused look when being subbed yesterday and the camera panned to him on the bench a few times.

 

[Judas]

You saw what you wanted to see.

 

[Malons]

It’s a shame where we are now

Remember his breakout season, always smiling, jumping into the crowd to celebrate

I don’t dislike Rashford but it’s clear he needs a new challenge. And the club need a fresh start too

I find that insulting though if that's the case. He plays for the club he grew up supporting and, by its standards, has really achieved feck all in the grand scheme of things. And already feels he needs a new challenge to be motivated to give a toss on the field?

His school meals publicity and the praise, fawning and national sweetheart status that was bequeathed to him as a result was the worst thing to happen to his footballing career.

 

[JPRouve]

So I was thinking about this, how Rashford, barring 2 seasons ago, doesn’t really seemed to have changed, never mind improve, as a player, since he broke onto the scene nearly 10years ago in early 2015.

Now let’s look at some of the players that Rashford has been with in that time:
- Wayne Rooney
- ⁠Falcao
- ⁠Di Maria
- ⁠Alexis Sanchez
- ⁠Zlatan Ibrahimovic
- ⁠Edinson Cavani
- ⁠Cristiano Ronaldo

These are some of THE best players who do what they do; hold the ball up, play others in, beat others with timing and skill, time runs to break line, making the right decisions and finish chances like a motherf*cker, yet he has plateaued at every, single, one of them attributes.

His finishing is fine, his decision making is atrocious, his choice of pass vs shot or pass vs beat a player is woeful, the runs he makes (when he can’t be arsed) are in straight lines without any skill.

It’s as though, with all of the amazing talent that he’s seen EVERY SINGLE DAY in training, and hasn’t learned anything from any of them!

How the feck can this be?

There is no osmosis players don't learn or improve by simply being around good players. They improve through coaching, training and generally a lot of repetition.

Rashford isn't an isolated case, our players have generally not improved since LVG left, he is the only manager that had a bunch of players develop consistently and even then it wasn't to the degree of development SAF was able to achieve.

So how the feck can this be? Subpar coaching or all our players are subpar since 2015/2016.

Even someone like Dalot who improved, mainly improved when he was away from the club, he continued but it didn't start with our coaching staff. Amad would be an other example.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I find that insulting though if that's the case. He plays for the club he grew up supporting and, by its standards, has really achieved feck all in the grand scheme of things. And already feels he needs a new challenge to be motivated to give a toss on the field?

His school meals publicity and the praise, fawning and national sweetheart status that was bequeathed to him as a result was the worst thing to happen to his footballing career.

Like everyone else I can only speculate. But an educated guess based on his “players voice” statement thing, other statements he has made, and his body language - I would guess that he can’t cope with the media here. Or the scrutiny that comes with being a United player. I also think he keeps some poor company.

 

[Desert Eagle]

There is no osmosis players don't learn or improve by simply being around good players. They improve through coaching, training and generally a lot of repetition.

Rashford isn't an isolated case, our players have generally not improved since LVG left, he is the only manager that had a bunch of players develop consistently and even then it wasn't to the degree of development SAF was able to achieve.

So how the feck can this be? Subpar coaching or all our players are subpar since 2015/2016.

Even someone like Dalot who improved, mainly improved when he was away from the club, he continued but it didn't start with our coaching staff. Amad would be an other example.

They improve from coaching and having high standards. What we have lacked since LVG and arguably since Fergie is somebody who is able to maryy quality coaching/tactics with the elite sports mentality side of equation. When your CEO, owner and director of football are taking the piss, when players can shit talk past/current managers, when you can get away with crap in training and on the pitch because you know you'll still start the next game then what incentive is there to improve and be the best. Our best players like Dalot, Kobbie, Garnacho have that internal determination to prove themselves and get better. The likes of Rashford and Sancho have already reached the peak ( financially) and seem to not gaf about glory and being the best at their craft. Even someone like Bruno who has so many weaknesses is never told to get better or risk losing his place, instead he is coddled like some fragile protected species.

 

[SER19]

There is no osmosis players don't learn or improve by simply being around good players. They improve through coaching, training and generally a lot of repetition.

Rashford isn't an isolated case, our players have generally not improved since LVG left, he is the only manager that had a bunch of players develop consistently and even then it wasn't to the degree of development SAF was able to achieve.

So how the feck can this be? Subpar coaching or all our players are subpar since 2015/2016.

Even someone like Dalot who improved, mainly improved when he was away from the club, he continued but it didn't start with our coaching staff. Amad would be an other example.

Seems there's a degree of cherry picking here. Forgetting that rashford himself had by far his best spell 2 seasons ago under the current coaches, it also seems selective to say dalot mainly improved while away. I don't think it's true at all and his progress in last 2 seasons has been massive, he has started this season strongly too. Mainoo and Garnacho are products of the existing set up and they don't seem remotely failed by coaching. There are few Players I've ever seen at United who have regressed like rashford and even when he wasn't abysmal, he blew hot and cold. Even somebody like maguire has somewhat restored his reputation under the current team after what seemed like a united career ending season under Rangnick and solskajer. Likewise Mctominay. Hojlund developed well for a young striker in his first season, he clearly improved as months went on after a very tough start.

Rashford is an outlier (probably with sancho) in just seeming to have become a league 2 player almost overnight

 

[Tincanalley]

My view now is that he’s a decent bloke, with plenty of hangers on. A bit insecure, a bit inclined to doubt himself. And lacking vision and football smarts. But always with a bit of something; a little magic moment in him. Why those moments seem to be happening less and less frequently has nothing to do with him campaigning for school dinners. Who knows what is in his head? But the exit door getting nearer….

 

[Pexbo]

I’m hoping ten Hag is doing what Mourinho did with Rooney, basically giving him every opportunity to show why he shouldn’t be in the side so when he’s finally dropped there is no drama and the media campaign falls on deaf ears.

 

[JPRouve]

Seems there's a degree of cherry picking here. Forgetting that rashford himself had by far his best spell 2 seasons ago under the current coaches, it also seems selective to say dalot mainly improved while away. I don't think it's true at all and his progress in last 2 seasons has been massive, he has started this season strongly too. Mainoo and Garnacho are products of the existing set up and they don't seem remotely failed by coaching. There are few Players I've ever seen at United who have regressed like rashford and even when he wasn't abysmal, he blew hot and cold. Even somebody like maguire has somewhat restored his reputation under the current team after what seemed like a united career ending season under Rangnick and solskajer. Likewise Mctominay. Hojlund developed well for a young striker in his first season, he clearly improved as months went on after a very tough start.

Rashford is an outlier (probably with sancho) in just seeming to have become a league 2 player almost overnight

Mainoo and Garnacho are a product of the youth coaching staff, which by all account has been good in recent years, neither have particularly improved since joining the first team, maybe they will but it's not something that I can state one way or the other. Rashford best season was largely an inconsistent one with a purple patch(between late December 22 and mid February 23) that wasn't based on his overall game improving which was the point made in that post, he hasn't improved, he can score goals when he is confident but his game is as limited as it was in 2015.

And there is nothing overnight about his development, as someone that has been very supportive of Rashford and accepting of his limitations. Rashford has been a limited wide striker(not winger or midfielder) for the best part of a decade, he can score goals in bunches but he is limited, his dribbling, movement, decision making and passing are as inconsitent as it gets, the only thing you can rely on him for, is to score goals if someone else creates regularly good chances, Rashford won't regularly create from himself, he isn't going to contribute to the build up and he isn't going to create often for others.

 

[MadDogg]

Seems there's a degree of cherry picking here. Forgetting that rashford himself had by far his best spell 2 seasons ago under the current coaches, it also seems selective to say dalot mainly improved while away.

Rashford may have scored more goals in 22/23, but 19/20 was his best season. His all-round game was comfortably better that season.

Dalot is probably the only player who has really improved under ETH. Some of the others (like Maguire) became better than they were immediately before he took over, but still not as good as they had been in previous seasons. McTominay scored more goals, but his general play has actually gotten worse.

 

[GL21]

I've heard a couple of footballers say it. My younger brother is friends with a prem footballer (man City) and he was telling us how contracts have changed and work.

Said a lot of things but mainly, and this is my words not his, that a SAF/Clough type manager would not work now. Would be dismissed for bullying/harassment etc.

Player contracts are so large and such detail that often it's not money why clubs decide not to sign a player.

He specifically said that minutes played is a big issue in player contracts.

very interesting. maybe I am naive in never having considered this before but this would explain a lot. particularly with ETH but I can think of other examples of players who's status as starter baffled me.

 

[SER19]

Mainoo and Garnacho are a product of the youth coaching staff, which by all account has been good in recent years, neither have particularly improved since joining the first team, maybe they will but it's not something that I can state one way or the other. Rashford best season was largely an inconsistent one with a purple patch(between late December 22 and mid February 23) that wasn't based on his overall game improving which was the point made in that post, he hasn't improved, he can score goals when he is confident but his game is as limited as it was in 2015.

And there is nothing overnight about his development, as someone that has been very supportive of Rashford and accepting of his limitations. Rashford has been a limited wide striker(not winger or midfielder) for the best part of a decade, he can score goals in bunches but he is limited, his dribbling, movement, decision making and passing are as inconsitent as it gets, the only thing you can rely on him for, is to score goals if someone else creates regularly good chances, Rashford won't regularly create from himself, he isn't going to contribute to the build up and he isn't going to create often for others.

I think not crediting current senior coaches with integrating young players to the enormous step up to the premier league is quite harsh.

Just to clarify, I said that what happened overnight was his fall off. He returned from an excellent season, where the whole club looked to be improving and genuinely performed about as well as bebe did at times. Ive never seen such a dramatic decline from a player without age/injury accounting for it.