David Moyes Unemployed | European Champion

To set up like this is not going to win you many big games. He might have got a draw.

They really needed 3 points though and had little that could be lost.

Strange tactics for sure and they failed big time.
 
Was nice to win tonight because we needed the 3 points. But not as nice as knowing Moyes shitehouse defensive football amounted to feck all and seeing his frustration at once again being denied the win against United that he is so obviously desperate for.

C U N T
 
Not sure why he showed us more respect than he did City. He's a very odd man, maybe he thought frustrating us would be the best way for points but just looked cowardly.
 
Pink Moon said:
Never thought I'd see the day where a West Ham manager is criticised for taking up a negative approach away at Old Trafford :confused:

The fact that United only won the game through an unfortunate own goal suggests to me that he got his tactics spot on. Had his team been more expansive they would almost certainly have gotten picked off by a United team that are lightning on the counter attack.
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Theres degrees of negativity. They started the match 6 points behind with a game in hand and played with 5 defenders and 3 defensive midfielders. To be clear it wasn't a 3-5-2 or anything close, their fullbacks didn't leave their own half. It didn't even work well, we hit the post twice, missed a couple of easy chances and the own goal probably would have went in without dawsons touch.
I can kind of understand sheffield united or west brom approaching a match like that. But were really not so good that you need 8 defensive players sitting on the edge of your box for the entire match to stop us. Those from the lower half that need to resort to them tactics are liable to get relegated if thats the best they can offer.
 
Pink Moon said:
Never thought I'd see the day where a West Ham manager is criticised for taking up a negative approach away at Old Trafford :confused:

The fact that United only won the game through an unfortunate own goal suggests to me that he got his tactics spot on. Had his team been more expansive they would almost certainly have gotten picked off by a United team that are lightning on the counter attack.
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Not to mention that sides in far worse form with little quality have gone there and got a result.

He needed to be brave in the position he is in if he really wanted to achieve beyond this season.

His approach shows just why he has never done that in his career. He is Mr Play-It-Safe and it’s laughable he can call himself an ex-United manager. The single worst mistake the club has made in footballing terms.
 
I have always been supportive for Moyes but I'm disappointed with his substitutions today. Chambers had been a huge threat throughout the game but Moyes didn't act accordingly. He put Noble on but this sub was basically meaningless. When they were enjoying a good spell in the 2nd half, he took Benrahma off and decided to sit back. He costed West Ham 2 points.
 
Barthez said:
The way Moyes is going it wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibility for him to be back at Man Utd as manager in the future. At least he wouldn’t have to succeed Sir Alex this time.
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I hope you are just joking. Obviously this has to be sarcasm. He is doing a cracking job at West Ham. Not the first time he has given up a 2 goal lead I think.
 
Surely he's in the picture for Manager of the year by now?

Although they'll probably give it to baldy...
 
The most strangest thing about the likes of him and Roy is that i fear them more when they're managing underdog clubs than when they had a top job.
 
Botim said:
Surely he's in the picture for Manager of the year by now?

Although they'll probably give it to baldy...
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If at the time of the vote baldy is still on target for a quadruple, it’s honestly very hard to argue otherwise.
 
MadMike said:
If at the time of the vote baldy is still on target for a quadruple, it’s honestly very hard to argue otherwise.
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Even though he has by far the best squad in the league with the most resources?

West Ham getting CL would be a far greater achievement, IMO.
 
MadMike said:
If at the time of the vote baldy is still on target for a quadruple, it’s honestly very hard to argue otherwise.
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With two fullbacks that cost more than the entire West Ham squad. The manager of the team that wins the PL shouldn’t always win the award.
 
Mindhunter said:
With two fullbacks that cost more than the entire West Ham squad. The manager of the team that wins the PL shouldn’t always win the award.
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While the vote is technically for the league, in the subconscious of the people voting the performances of the team in other comps matter as well. Baldy broke the premier league consecutive wins record, while his team is still on for a quadruple.

Imagine you win the quadruple, an impossible feat that has never happened before, and they give the mots award to Moyes for coming fourth. That would both be objectively wrong and insulting.
 
MadMike said:
Yes, I’m not even sure why you’re arguing otherwise.
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Because Pep Guardiola was expected to win the league with this squad. David Moyes was not expected to have West Ham in the group stages of the Champions League.

You'd be as well just scrapping the manager of the year award and just giving it to whoever wins the league by default if we're ignoring all context and sense of achievement.
 
Pink Moon said:
Because Pep Guardiola was expected to win the league with this squad. David Moyes was not expected to have West Ham in the group stages of the Champions League.

You'd be as well just scrapping the manager of the year award and just giving it to whoever wins the league by default if we're ignoring all context and sense of achievement.
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Well said. The last winner of the Manager of the Season who did not win the league was Pulis in 13/14, for rescuing Palace from relegation zone and they finished 11th. Moyes has achieved much this season.
 
It's his perfect little niche, the plucky underdog. It's a shame he's doing well as it secures an otherwise subpar manager on the merry go round for another decade and is one more managerial spot unavailable for some fresh ideas. I had hoped we'd seen the back of him after a string of failures.
 
11101 said:
It's his perfect little niche, the plucky underdog. It's a shame he's doing well as it secures an otherwise subpar manager on the merry go round for another decade and is one more managerial spot unavailable for some fresh ideas. I had hoped we'd seen the back of him after a string of failures.
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When your team is 4th in the table you're about 8 places up from plucky underdog. West Ham have been the 4th best out of 20 teams
 
I wish I could say I was happy for his resurgence at West Ham, but with his bitterness and inability to not moan about not being given time just makes me sick. The ironic part is that success at West Ham will only make him even more entitled :wenger:
 
I think David Moyes's success at West Ham shows that he wasn't that wretchedly pathetic manager we all made him out to be. He was not a top manager but he was also not a bad manager, he just happened to be the worst manager we had in the history of the club because he couldn't handle the players and coming in to fill SAF's position is always going to be an impossible task. Most importantly, it shows the club has deeper underlying issues behind the scenes beyond the manager's ability as we can see with Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho's departure. Ole has his weakness of course and I rate our past two managers over him but his biggest strength is his extremely high EQ, his ability to strike a balance between the board and his players. His man-management and refusal to throw the players under the bus has made the players go all out to get a result for him whenever his job is under threat. I still don't think he is the manager to bring us back to the elite level we once belonged, but I've already accepted that he is what we need for now.
 
Ekeke said:
When your team is 4th in the table you're about 8 places up from plucky underdog. West Ham have been the 4th best out of 20 teams
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It's Everton all over again.

Position doesn't matter, he sets them up to be hard to beat and nick points against the big teams. Get to the byline, get the ball in the box, make it hard for them. All the same shite he used to say here. It works in a very specific set of circumstances, but its fecking dull and brings nothing new or interesting to the game.

Guys like him, Hodgson, Hughes and so on hit success once a decade and it enables them to hang around in management bringing nothing but outdated ideas, and cuts off the route to the top for newer, potentially much better managers.
 
11101 said:
It's Everton all over again.

Position doesn't matter, he sets them up to be hard to beat and nick points against the big teams. Get to the byline, get the ball in the box, make it hard for them. All the same shite he used to say here. It works in a very specific set of circumstances, but its fecking dull and brings nothing new or interesting to the game.

Guys like him, Hodgson, Hughes and so on hit success once a decade and it enables them to hang around in management bringing nothing but outdated ideas, and cuts off the route to the top for newer, potentially much better managers.
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"Getting to the byline, getting the ball in the box" to me is much more interesting than the so-called possession football (dull) nowadays.
 
Raredaredevil said:
I think David Moyes's success at West Ham shows that he wasn't that wretchedly pathetic manager we all made him out to be. He was not a top manager but he was also not a bad manager, he just happened to be the worst manager we had in the history of the club because he couldn't handle the players and coming in to fill SAF's position is always going to be an impossible task. Most importantly, it shows the club has deeper underlying issues behind the scenes beyond the manager's ability as we can see with Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho's departure. Ole has his weakness of course and I rate our past two managers over him but his biggest strength is his extremely high EQ, his ability to strike a balance between the board and his players. His man-management and refusal to throw the players under the bus has made the players go all out to get a result for him whenever his job is under threat. I still don't think he is the manager to bring us back to the elite level we once belonged, but I've already accepted that he is what we need for now.
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Focusing on Moyes - given this is what the thread is about, not Ole - he’s a proven manager who can point to multiple successful spells with clubs at varying levels of football.

I don’t think his style of football was right for us at the time but, if we pretend he was the right guy for the sake of debate, it’s all about timing. Moyes came immediately post SAF - the team had just won the PL and fan expectation had yet to be tempered and slowly eroded as it has now. It was genuinely an impossible job.

One thing I am confused by is posters who say they play like Everton did under Moyes - they really don’t. He’s definitely changed his setup somewhat, they’re actually quite similar to United in how they line up and their ability/willingness to break forward in numbers.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Focusing on Moyes - given this is what the thread is about, not Ole - he’s a proven manager who can point to multiple successful spells with clubs at varying levels of football.

I don’t think his style of football was right for us at the time but, if we pretend he was the right guy for the sake of debate, it’s all about timing. Moyes came immediately post SAF - the team had just won the PL and fan expectation had yet to be tempered and slowly eroded as it has now. It was genuinely an impossible job.

One thing I am confused by is posters who say they play like Everton did under Moyes - they really don’t. He’s definitely changed his setup somewhat, they’re actually quite similar to United in how they line up and their ability/willingness to break forward in numbers.
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Multiple is a bit of a stretch.

And it was no where near an impossible job, difficult arguably but not impossible .Most fans didn't expect the title in his first season. Most expected a transition, squad rebuild and at least a top 4 finish, which with that squad still should have been a tap in.

Let's not rewrite history here.
 
stevoc said:
Multiple is a bit of a stretch.

And it was no where near an impossible job, difficult arguably but not impossible .Most fans didn't expect the title in his first season. Most expected a transition, squad rebuild and at least a top 4 finish, which with that squad still should have been a tap in.

Let's not rewrite history here.
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How so, he did well with Everton & Preston?

I agree he should have done better (and he was never qualified in the first place).
 
11101 said:
It's Everton all over again.

Position doesn't matter, he sets them up to be hard to beat and nick points against the big teams. Get to the byline, get the ball in the box, make it hard for them. All the same shite he used to say here. It works in a very specific set of circumstances, but its fecking dull and brings nothing new or interesting to the game.

Guys like him, Hodgson, Hughes and so on hit success once a decade and it enables them to hang around in management bringing nothing but outdated ideas, and cuts off the route to the top for newer, potentially much better managers.
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Very unfair on Hodgson.

I agree on Moyes though. The metrics of success in this country are ridiculous. Bielsa at Leeds should give all clubs something to target. Play football, not attritional anti-football. It’s possible, and needn’t cost more to do so.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
How so, he did well with Everton & Preston?

I agree he should have done better (and he was never qualified in the first place).
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Well fair enough mate if you include Preston. Was thinking just Everton and West Ham.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Very unfair on Hodgson.

I agree on Moyes though. The metrics of success in this country are ridiculous. Bielsa at Leeds should give all clubs something to target. Play football, not attritional anti-football. It’s possible, and needn’t cost more to do so.
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Moyes has West Ham in 4th, Bielsa has Leeds in 11th. He consistently finished in the top 7 of the league with Everton when the top 4/5 were pretty much set in stone every year. It might not be pretty but it is effective.

I get that a lot of Utd fans hate him, but he is good at getting teams like Everton and West Ham to play above themselves and get good league positions. Look at how every Everton manager has done since he left and look at how every West Ham mamager before him has done. He's a good manager, he was just never good enough for Man Utd.

11101 said:
Guys like him, Hodgson, Hughes and so on hit success once a decade and it enables them to hang around in management bringing nothing but outdated ideas, and cuts off the route to the top for newer, potentially much better managers.
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Can you name any that they've blocked in the last 10 years? As far as I remember Moyes and Hodgson have come in to replace failing managers and have managed to do alright.
 
Oranges038 said:
Can you name any that they've blocked in the last 10 years? As far as I remember Moyes and Hodgson have come in to replace failing managers and have managed to do alright.
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Not really, because they haven't managed to get through and be known. Maybe they would be if these dinosaurs weren't around.

It's the anti-football tactics this type of manager employs that frustrates me the most. It holds the English game back a lot. As good as our team was in the latter SAF years, and others have been since, we are often comfortably outplayed in Europe against top opposition. It's partly because our teams spend half their time focusing on beating sloggers like Moyes and Pulis instead of developing innovative tactics like teams in other leagues are able to.

And don't get me started on the national team!
 
Raredaredevil said:
I think David Moyes's success at West Ham shows that he wasn't that wretchedly pathetic manager we all made him out to be. He was not a top manager but he was also not a bad manager, he just happened to be the worst manager we had in the history of the club because he couldn't handle the players and coming in to fill SAF's position is always going to be an impossible task. Most importantly, it shows the club has deeper underlying issues behind the scenes beyond the manager's ability as we can see with Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho's departure. Ole has his weakness of course and I rate our past two managers over him but his biggest strength is his extremely high EQ, his ability to strike a balance between the board and his players. His man-management and refusal to throw the players under the bus has made the players go all out to get a result for him whenever his job is under threat. I still don't think he is the manager to bring us back to the elite level we once belonged, but I've already accepted that he is what we need for now.
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I think he was unlucky to walk in straight after SAF. If he had come in after someone else inevitably failed (anyone following SAF was unlikely to succeed) then he may have done a lot better.

Don't want him back at United under any circumstances but I'm pleased to see him doing well with West Ham
 
11101 said:
It's Everton all over again.

Position doesn't matter, he sets them up to be hard to beat and nick points against the big teams. Get to the byline, get the ball in the box, make it hard for them. All the same shite he used to say here. It works in a very specific set of circumstances, but its fecking dull and brings nothing new or interesting to the game.

Guys like him, Hodgson, Hughes and so on hit success once a decade and it enables them to hang around in management bringing nothing but outdated ideas, and cuts off the route to the top for newer, potentially much better managers.
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Don’t most of cities goals come from this and are known and lauded for it?

as Shit as he was here he’s done a pretty good job at both Everton and West Ham imo and the football is hardly dreadful.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Don’t most of cities goals come from this and are known and lauded for it?

as Shit as he was here he’s done a pretty good job at both Everton and West Ham imo and the football is hardly dreadful.
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This is his peak, a club like United was a step too far for him but he can take a mid-bottom of the table club and get them into the top half and knocking on the top 4 door.

I think his career deserves an FA or League Cup but I can't see him doing anything bigger than that.
 
Pink Moon said:
Because Pep Guardiola was expected to win the league with this squad. David Moyes was not expected to have West Ham in the group stages of the Champions League.
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He was not expected to go on a 21 game winning streak or still be in for the quadruple in April though. He was not expected to be on course for 90+ league points while challenging on all fronts. You're really dumbing down how good a season City are having.

Like I said in the post above yours...
MadMike said:
Imagine you win the quadruple, an impossible feat that has never happened before, and they give the mots award to Moyes for coming fourth. That would both be objectively wrong and insulting.
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EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I think Moyes is doing great and is currently only behind Pep and just ahead of Bielsa in my estimation. If Pep had messed up in one of the cups and was out of the CL, I would have given it to one of the other two.
 
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