Is that why Reina and Cech have improved so much since their mid-20s?
David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances
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Is that why Reina and Cech have improved so much since their mid-20s?
I think we should create a separate DDG thread. One for people who have a clue, and the other for kietotheworld to post in.
no no no, keep him posting in here, its not right putting special people in their own special spaces.
I wasn't being serious with Hart, I was taking the piss out of the pundits and media. De Gea doesn't almost do it every game and not more than Hart either. It's not a generic excuse. Look at Friedel and David James, best years were when they were older and more experience and less prone to errors.
How many Young Keepers have come to England with the scrutiny De Gea has had? How many Keepers have had to deal with defensive rotation like De Gea? How many Keepers have had to deal with an abyss of a midfield which De Gea has often had in his time here? There are so many factors which people don't consider.
If Casillas and Buffon are exceptions who have struggled recently, then isn't that the prime examples of keepers who were in their prime in their 20s and are perhaps declining now? Reina and Cech are also two perfect examples mentioned of keepers whose better days came in their 20s. Some keepers can excel later, but that's merely because they don't decline as quickly as players in other positions so can reach their prime later. Generally though, if we had someone like De Gea still not near world class in his mid 20s, I'd be worried. Again, there are exceptions, but a lot should be at least near their best by the time they're 25-27.
What have I said that's so unreasonable here?
I know the moment you mean when Rio said to just calm down, but in general I don't think de gea is ever really guilty of giving the ball away like that, he looks to start counters when he can, but doesn't usually give it away cheaply. But get what you mean about just slowing the game down but tbf there seemed to be mixed messages around the team about that.
That's to say they won't improve in the future. Improvement doesn't necessary mean become better, consistency is critical to keeping.
Let's not forget Reina and Cech's 'peak's' also coincide with them having better teams in front of them. Buffon has had injury to deal with too.
The most major club James played for consistently was Liverpool, and guess what age he was when he was consistently playing for them? He found some very good form again in later years, but again I wouldn't say his best form came in his late 30s. Friedel's been consistent for years as well; not just in his late 30's.
Besides, despite being a patient club, are people really saying they'd wait a decade for De Gea to fully develop? I get showing faith and patience in youth, and it won't take that long anyway, but surely if people thought we weren't going to have a world class goalkeeper for a decade then we'd be better looking elsewhere.
He did against Spurs, Newcastle, Manchester City, Swansea, Liverpool, now for all of these there are excuses - it was quite a hard shot, it was raining, it was snowing, there were other players in the penalty area etc. - but at some point you have to realise that he's doing it an awful lot more than other goalkeepers and it's not just a coincidence.
De Gea has one of the best defences and midfields in the country ahead of him, it's only in comparison to top European sides that it looks pretty weak. As much as a stronger defence and midfield would help him, if the defence hadn't been as porous as it had he wouldn't have got most of the praise that's been given to him either because he wouldn't have made so many good saves. The defence issue swings both ways depending on what argument one wants to make.
I think you must be a bit mixed up there, this can't be what you intended to write. Improvement means becoming better.
Yeah Kttw, it's so strong, it's conceding 30 goals.
Which of our defenders do you think are weak?
I didn't say fully develop, I said 'the best' that means when he'll be consistent on the level of Van Der Sar in that he'll make errors very rarely if ever. Banks made 'that save' in his 30's, Zoff won the World Cup when he was 40, Shilton found most of his success in his late 20's and early 30's. To me keepers don't reach their most consistent level until they hit their late 20's, early 30's.
I can certainly agree with that. There was a point half way (or later) in the second half where a long pass from Spurs went straight through to De Gea, who was under no pressure. VDS and other experienced keepers would've stopped it with their feet, dribbled around a bit inside the area and waited for a striker to come before picking it up, but De Gea picked it up straight away and wanted to launch an attack. I think "immaturity" (as you say) is probably the best way of describing it. He's edging to get the team going no matter what the score is. I haven't really noticed it before, so I don't know if it's an ongoing thing or if it was just today, but I'm certain the coaching staff have noticed it and will work on that part.
I thought he had a brilliant game. I haven't seen the goal again, but my initial thought was that he MIGHT have been able to push it a bit further away, but I don't really think it's enough to definitely say that he was at fault. There was another high ball into the area I was more annoyed with - where he punched the ball away despite not being closed down by any players. He really should just catch those.
de Gea could have done better but he had a great match for me and when fans get their knickers in a twist, I really do wonder if they expect a 22 year old goalkeeper to be the finished article already.
This is the consequence of putting your faith in youth. Their inconsistency will come at a cost sometimes but if you believe in the talent that is there and if they continue to show promising signs of development, then you continue to pursue with them. It's a good thing de Gea is learning this now. This experience is absolutely invaluable for him. Am I happy with the manner we conceded? Certainly not but I do think this lad has got what it takes to be a really good keeper for us.
3 pages before this someone made a light remark about Barca preparing a bid. Obviously they weren't entirely serious but I think we all recognize the potential de Gea has. When he reaches his peak we probably won't know for some time. You can choose to focus solely on his mistakes but you must recognize the times he has either kept us in the game, maintained the clean sheet, or made an important save to keep us in the lead. The major question(s) surrounding de Gea is how does he respond to his errors and how long is he going to take to iron his game out?
For me personally, what he offers already is enough. There are very few keepers his age showing the same abilities he has shown since he arrived. I think in about a season or two, we'll be feeling very comfortable knowing his name is in the starting XI.
This is the consequence of putting your faith in youth. Their inconsistency will come at a cost sometimes but if you believe in the talent that is there and if they continue to show promising signs of development, then you continue to pursue with them. It's a good thing de Gea is learning this now. This experience is absolutely invaluable for him. Am I happy with the manner we conceded? Certainly not but I do think this lad has got what it takes to be a really good keeper for us.
3 pages before this someone made a light remark about Barca preparing a bid. Obviously they weren't entirely serious but I think we all recognize the potential de Gea has. When he reaches his peak we probably won't know for some time. You can choose to focus solely on his mistakes but you must recognize the times he has either kept us in the game, maintained the clean sheet, or made an important save to keep us in the lead. The major question(s) surrounding de Gea is how does he respond to his errors and how long is he going to take to iron his game out?
For me personally, what he offers already is enough. There are very few keepers his age showing the same abilities he has shown since he arrived. I think in about a season or two, we'll be feeling very comfortable knowing his name is in the starting XI.
You know you can actually not get better and still maintain the same skill set and still improve. For example, what's better a few 9/10 performances interspersed with 5's and 6's or consistent 7's and 8's. Eradicating errors comes with experience and doesn't necessarily require a technical improvement.
Point being as a collective we haven't been great. On an individual basis, we have top class defenders.
I wasn't serious by the way.
This doesn't make any sense to me, is English your first language? Improving and getting better are the same thing. Why would improving your consistency cause less 9/10 performances?
The defenders are all top class but we are still conceding near record amounts of goals. Do you think somebody else who isn't a defender could be responsible?
You might not have to make a brilliant recovery save after palming into the 'danger area'. Yes it is my first language, don't get hung up on minor details. You don't need to get better if you perform at a level you are capable of on a more consistent basis, it's clear De Gea can perform at a very high level and the only issue is crosses which he has improved on.
Defending is a team thing! De Gea wasn't at fault for those City, Swansea and Liverpool goals that I think you are suggesting he was at fault for.
If you were to become more consistent and you make less mistakes, that would be improvement, that would be getting better.
As I say, you can blame other people for the dangerous parries if you want, but the fact it's happening so often would suggest something to all but the most myopic of people.
I don't even know why I'm bothering. Whatever man. I have other shit to do.
kie why were you banned the other day?
At least a couple of important stops, and for their goal had to stretch over the top of two players to make the punch. We conceded that goal because of 45 minutes of constant pressure.
There's discussions after nearly every goal we concede about it being his fault, this place is mental.
Oddly enough VDS was always excused on here for a lot of his errors, particularly his habit of conceding near post.
Some of the shots he's parried this season would go past the vast majority of keepers, the fact he gets anything to them is amazing.
Oddly enough VDS was always excused on here for a lot of his errors, particularly his habit of conceding near post.
Some of the shots he's parried this season would go past the vast majority of keepers, the fact he gets anything to them is amazing.
Bollocks.
Our defence has been woeful this season, it's one of the best in the country still, obviously, but compared to the standard we usually have its shite.
Do you think VDS would have looked amazing with this defence in front of him?
So because our defenders are individually great it must mean that our defence has been fantastic every game? What sort of fecked up logic is that?
That's exactly what he said and you called it bollocks.
The flogging of De Gea here onnthe caf is absolutely ridiculous.
One particular moderator seems to have been looking for an opportunity to ban me for a while, in the thread about why City would probably make up points on us he found one. "Insulting other members" is now an offence which warrants an immediate ban apparently.
I'll ignore the first two "paragraphs" for reasons already pointed out to you.
Difficult to say, I think it's just as likely he would have looked better, he'd have had more opportunities to make great saves. You look at people like Shay Given, David James and Ben Foster and they look a lot better behind shit defences than they do behind really good ones. I don't think our defence would be anywhere near as bad if we still had van der Sar to be honest, a goalkeeper plays a big role in organising a defence and the players would have had a lot more confidence in him.
Do you think De Gea would look as good as he did today, clangers aside, if he had our 2008 defence in front of him?
Every game? Of course not, that would be absurd. However, if they're responsible for us conceding so many goals they're either pretty mediocre defenders or they're having horrendous seasons.
What flogging?
Nice to see Dempsey have a couple of nice words about him afterwards in the post-match interview though.
I just rewatched the Spurs goal. His punch in itself wasn't actually that bad. He theoretically punched it away from the danger area. The main issue was that he should've caught the ball. Having said that, the conditions were terrible for a keeper trying to stop crosses.
Overall it was an ok game for him. Made a couple of quality of saves but also made a mistake that cost us the goal.
Overall it was an ok game for him. Made a couple of quality of saves but also made a mistake that cost us the goal.
He had a fantastic game. Some great saves and the easier ones were all handled solidly. Also great with the clearances.
The goal wasn't his fault. It was the rest of the team's.
The goal wasn't his fault. It was the rest of the team's.
I don't want to call our posters by name but I'll take one of about a dozen I've seen today alone:
In this you have two reasonable assertions, that the goal wasn't his fault and that his shot stopping is there for all to see. But then you have the "fekkin' feeble attempt at a punch" and that he's made "so little progress over the past two years at developing his physicality around the box", two assertions which are beyond idiotic. De Gea was at full stretch to get over his defender and get everything that could be gotten on the punch. Give full credit to Spurs for out working us the loose ball. As far as De Gea's "progress" inside the box, it really is night and day compared to early last year.
De Gea was arguably our man of the match today. To tee off on him todayis either poorly timed -- the criticisms were valid about 12-13 months ago or poorly conceived.
Utter rubbish
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