David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

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ERICSAGOD said:
Doesn't matter if he's 12 or 35, he's never going to cope with people like Andy Carrol.
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It will come with experience.

I agree with Owens comments, he will be a top keeper, I think he's in the unfournate position that every goal he concedes, people will be looking at if he could of done this, could of done that, and if people feel there is the slightest bit he could of done something, it turns into a much bigger thing.

The guys 21, he's in a new league where keepers get little protection compared to where he's come from. He'll learn and he'll be our #1 in the future. Even Van Der Sar didn't have the best of times when he first joined Fulham.

Personally I don't think the keeper rotation has helped him. When he had that run of games, he started doing well, the mistakes disappeared. Then the keeper rotation came back in and so have the mistakes.

The kids under a lot of pressure, he's a big money signing for a keeper, and even before he played his first game, a lot of people were questioning him. I think most of his mistakes, especially ones like yesterday, comes from him maybe putting to much effort in?
 
ERICSAGOD said:
Doesn't matter if he's 12 or 35, he's never going to cope with people like Andy Carrol.
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Of course it fecking matters. At 21 neither Schmeichel nor VDS had made any impact whatsoever at senior level.
 
This is purely a difference of opinion. I don't think he's going to make the grade (hopefully I'm wrong) and you guys think he will. We'll have to wait and see.
 
There's a bit of that, as cliched as it is, he needs to bulk up right now he's getting bullied when he doesn't have Rio or Vidic there to protect him, he needs to develop a bit of presence and command, which he will do.
 
The only possible reason SAF has rotated GK is that he is not 100% confident in De Gea. Buying De Gea was a risk but United had the insurance of Lindegard who had been at United for 6 months before De Gea signed.

De Gea is still developing but United are a team that are challenging for titles every year and is it the right place to develop a GK?
 
Commadus said:
The only possible reason SAF has rotated GK is that he is not 100% confident in De Gea. Buying De Gea was a risk but United had the insurance of Lindegard who had been at United for 6 months before De Gea signed.

De Gea is still developing but United are a team that are challenging for titles every year and is it the right place to develop a GK?
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What ready-made options were there? It's better to develop De Gea over a year or two and potentially have him for 10+ years than get a stop-gap till someone else does so.
 
When De Gea was beaten by Dzeko in the Charity Shield it was just a mistake than a glaring weakness. We then saw teams trying to shoot from distance and this subsided as it was not effective.

He then was put under pressure on crosses but there was a period he came through that but then he made a mistake against Blackburn and the doubts re-emerged.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Steele and Fergie clearly think so.
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Which is why I made the point re Lindegard as being the insurance option. I am pretty sure if we did not have Lindegard we would not have signed De Gea so early in his career.

Perhaps the thinking was lets get De Gea now and let him bed in and develop and if he has some issues we can always turn back to Lindegard?
 
Commadus said:
Which is why I made the point re Lindegard as being the insurance option. I am pretty sure if we did not have Lindegard we would not have signed De Gea so early in his career.

Perhaps the thinking was lets get De Gea now and let him bed in and develop and if he has some issues we can always turn back to Lindegard?
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It was always going to be tricky having two 'new' goalkeepers.

Personally I think a little too much has been made of Fergie chopping and changing, I think he needed to give them both games.
 
phelans shorts said:
And Eric was spot on in that assessment.
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Thanks for confirming that mate.

De Gea might be a special talent but we should have done something along the lines of what Chelsea are doing - they know Cech has 2-3 years left so have signed Courtois to replace him, sending him on loan to A Madrid this season and they're planning to loan him to a PL club next season. We should have done similar with De Gea during the VdS era, rather than endure such a hard time this season.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
It was always going to be tricky having two 'new' goalkeepers.

Personally I think a little too much has been made of Fergie chopping and changing, I think he needed to give them both games.
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But as has been mentioned, November/early December De Gea got a run in the side and seemed to grow in stature, he just held himself with more confidence and errors were reduced to near null. The Lindegaard came in for a few games and De Gea's confidence was shot to pieces, now he's a nervous wreck.

The Spaniard is clearly struggling to settle with the press and more fickle fans attacking him week on week, if he'd carried on playing his confidence would likely be fine and he'd be playing well and settling. Fergie has done no one any favours with this rotation.
 
Commadus said:
What you consider his unique talents are?
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I wouldn't know as I'm not a goalkeeping coach.

"He’s just a unique talent," Steele told MUTV in an exclusive interview. "Ultimately, I think they come around in cycles. Iker Casillas was 17 when he got in the Real Madrid team, I saw Gianluigi Buffon when he was 17 play in Scotland.

"I first watched de Gea when he was representing Spain four years ago, before I was even associated with the club and it’s just something that you tick the box and say ‘one to look at’. So my first contact was when I saw at the Euro Under-17s which Spain happened to win. He’s suited to the way that we play and the way that we want to play.

"He's got an experience that people don’t realise. He’s up to nearly 100 games and he’s not 21 until November. He’s well advanced in terms of experience but can he come and play for a club like Manchester United? The qualities we’ve all seen, and the manager has seen, have ticked the boxes. There is always an element of ‘can they handle 76,000 at Old Trafford?’ but I’ve seen him play at the Nou Camp, man of the match. Not fazed."
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I trust Eric Steele's judgement though.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
Thanks for confirming that mate.

De Gea might be a special talent but we should have done something along the lines of what Chelsea are doing - they know Cech has 2-3 years left so have signed Courtois to replace him, sending him on loan to A Madrid this season and they're planning to loan him to a PL club next season. We should have done similar with De Gea during the VdS era, rather than endure such a hard time this season.
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De Gea was number 1 at Atletico for 2 seasons while Edwin was playing. Would you sign Atletico Madrids reserve keeper (behind someone who isn't much older, Asenjo)? Would you be able to make sure a good enough side will take him on?

Courtois is highly rated, in the time frame you're talking about De Gea not do much, it would have been even harder.
 
phelans shorts said:
De Gea was number 1 at Atletico for 2 seasons while Edwin was playing. Would you sign Atletico Madrids reserve keeper (behind someone who isn't much older, Asenjo)? Would you be able to make sure a good enough side will take him on?

Courtois is highly rated, in the time frame you're talking about De Gea not do much, it would have been even harder.
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I don't quite get your post. I think we could have signed De Gea earlier and not started from scratch with him last summer, or we could have signed a more experienced Nr 1 to replace VdS in the summer and had DDG as back up while he adjusted to the game here. Either would have been preferable to losing all of VdS' experience and starting two rookie keepers from scratch at more or less the same time.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
Thanks for confirming that mate.

De Gea might be a special talent but we should have done something along the lines of what Chelsea are doing - they know Cech has 2-3 years left so have signed Courtois to replace him, sending him on loan to A Madrid this season and they're planning to loan him to a PL club next season. We should have done similar with De Gea during the VdS era, rather than endure such a hard time this season.
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Who was occupying that position last season? That's right. David De Gea.

You can't compare him with rookie teenagers. He came to us as the undisputed number one at one of the best clubs in Spain.

Obviously, there's a learning curve when it comes to adjusting to PL football. Maybe a season on loan at another club would have helped but who's to say there was a suitable club looking to bed in someone else's keeper? Besides, we all saw with Foster that a season with a club from the bottom half of the table is poor preparation for keeping nets at Manchester United. As far as goalkeeping is concerned, it's almost a different game.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I don't quite get your post. I think we could have signed De Gea earlier and not started from scratch with him last summer, or we could have signed a more experienced Nr 1 to replace VdS in the summer and had DDG as back up while he adjusted to the game here. Either would have been preferable to losing all of VdS' experience and starting two rookie keepers from scratch at more or less the same time.
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Who should we have signed to have a better keeper on the bench then?

Back to loans, who would we loan him too?

De Gea has had a meteoric rise, when do you think we should have signed him?
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I don't quite get your post. I think we could have signed De Gea earlier and not started from scratch with him last summer, or we could have signed a more experienced Nr 1 to replace VdS in the summer and had DDG as back up while he adjusted to the game here. Either would have been preferable to losing all of VdS' experience and starting two rookie keepers from scratch at more or less the same time.
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Maybe we tried to.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Who was occupying that position last season? That's right. David De Gea.

You can't compare him with rookie teenagers. He came to us as the undisputed number one at one of the best clubs in Spain.

Obviously, there's a learning curve when it comes to adjusting to PL football. Maybe a season on loan at another club would have helped but who's to say there was a suitable club looking to bed in someone else's keeper? Besides, we all saw with Foster that a season with a club from the bottom half of the table is poor preparation for keeping nets at Manchester United.
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Exactly.

De Gea isnt some new unknown bloke we've signed. he was No. 1 for atletico. A big club. Sending him out on loan anywhere but the premiership wouldnt have helped him in dealing with crosses and the physicality od the game in england. And not many teams in the league would line up to bed in our new keeper.

The lad has to learn the hard way. He's just 21 though and other than his ability to deal with crosses, am not concerned about anything. Nothing experience and good coaches that we have cannot sort out.
 
He was getting first team football in both La Liga and the Europa league, I dont see how signing him and either keeping him here or loaning him out would have been any better for his development than that.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Who was occupying that position last season? That's right. David De Gea.

You can't compare him with rookie teenagers. He came to us as the undisputed number one at one of the best clubs in Spain.

Obviously, there's a learning curve when it comes to adjusting to PL football. Maybe a season on loan at another club would have helped but who's to say there was a suitable club looking to bed in someone else's keeper? Besides, we all saw with Foster that a season with a club from the bottom half of the table is poor preparation for keeping nets at Manchester United. As far as goalkeeping is concerned, it's almost a different game.
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I had a feeling someone would point out that Courtois is getting the same experience as de Gea got now by playing for A Madrid.

As I pointed out though, Chelsea intend to loan him to a club in the PL next season to complete his experience.

I think they're going about replacing Cech in a very sound and sensible way - it seems to me that Courtois will arrive back at Chelsea ready and prepared to take over from Cech.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I had a feeling someone would point out that Courtois is getting the same experience as de Gea got now by playing for A Madrid.

As I pointed out though, Chelsea intend to loan him to a club in the PL next season to complete his experience.

I think they're going about replacing Cech in a very sound and sensible way - it seems to me that Courtois will arrive back at Chelsea ready and prepared to take over from Cech.
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Easier said than done that, who'll loan him?
 
I for one think he is great... not many keepers i can think of have his footballing skills. Van der Sar, Casillas, Valdez, Jaaskelinen are the only ones that spring to mind- as the modern centre back now has to be able to surge forward with the ball and full backs need to have a bag of tricks, keepers now need to be able to play as a sweeper.
 
phelans shorts said:
In the Premier League, who would want to?
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I think a lot of teams would be in for Courtois. If he spent a season at, say, QPR, I think it would be mutually beneficial for all parties.

He could go to any of the newly promoted sides next year so it's hard to say. We loaned Foster to a relegation threatened club and I think battling it out at the bottom of the table didn't do him any harm. I doubt Chelsea will mind much, as long as he's getting the chance to adapt to the PL.
 
De Gea's situation is definitely an interesting on it. I havent said too much but it never ceases to amaze me how alot of the posts on this thread are more reactionary than anything. You'll look at some other threads regarding our players and for the most part, you get a more balanced view as well as an overall perspective.

It wasn't that long ago, that a good number of people were singing his praises and thinking that he would eventually show that Fergie's faith in him was justified.

It's been about more than 6 months now since his arrival and there's the temptation to make people feel that he's gone backwards. For one, he's not featured in the side as much and when he has, his performances haven't really been up to par. For some reason, these moments seem to stick with people more than when he was performing decently during the beginning stages of the season.

With DDG, I think some things have gone against him that has made his transition less smooth than what some of us thought it would be. We knew he was a very young keeper coming into the fold and that he'd take time to integrate but it seems that some didnt anticipate some of those ramifications.

I'm sure SAF envisioned having somewhat of a stable back four to better ease De Gea's transition. The boy is still learning English and it seems to be the main stumbling block in him being able to really have that calming influence that's been likened to Edwin's. Whether that's organizing our defense or just having the necessary communication to keep our defensive solidity intact. Yet, lo and behold, this season has been an absolute nightmare with injuries. I dont think anyone foresaw Vida being out for a whole season and we all know the rock he's been for our defense. Rio is still struggling to remain fit and I believe at least each of our defenders have been out due to injury for some extended period of time.

Although you would expect him to get on with it, I dont think it's helped in terms of building that familiarity quite yet. Something that for a kid his age, I think would have been crucial in helping him to cope a bit better.

Another factor is also the nature of the English game. I think that's something that's been discussed in-depth on here so I dont feel the need to really flesh out any thoughts there. Nonetheless, it's a very unforgiving league and any glaring weaknesses will get punished. In De Gea's case, it's going to be a constant thorn in his side. While he's getting accustomed to the style here as well as Steele's training methods and learning to curb some of his habits, definitely going to see the occasional clanger.

I've always felt it's the price you pay with putting faith in youth. As talented as they may be, their inconsistency is something that can make anyone want to pull their hair out. In the GK position, inconsistency isn't something you really want to deal with often as it demands a certain standard every game.

De Gea just strikes me as a character that while he's mentally strong, not being able to fully impose himself in makes it seem as if he's not that confident in his ability.

I think he'll prove to be a good keeper for us but he seems to be in a weird spot where he's trying to perform his best while integrating what he's learned in training which will take some time too. We knew coming in that he wasn't the finished article but I think the defensive injuries and him playing the odd game now just wasn't going to work in his favor coming up against Liverpool.

The last time he was at Anfield, he was great and saved us from losing but how many people are going to remember that when he's had a performance like he did yesterday? Also find it interesting that regardless of which player it is, it's only when they have a poor game that you see some posters come out of the woodwork and moan and whinge. However, when that same player does well, they are nowhere to be seen.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I think a lot of teams would be in for Courtois. If he spent a season at, say, QPR, I think it would be mutually beneficial for all parties.

He could go to any of the newly promoted sides next year so it's hard to say. We loaned Foster to a relegation threatened club and I think battling it out at the bottom of the table didn't do him any harm. I doubt Chelsea will mind much, as long as he's getting the chance to adapt to the PL.
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Why would QPR prefer to loan him than sign, let's say, Joe Lewis? they have the money so might as well sort out the long term.

Why would West Ham want him? Or Southampton? There's no advantage to them in this. So again I ask, who would want him?
 
Michael Owen has hit out at critics of team-mate David de Gea following the Spaniard's performance in the defeat to Liverpool which saw Manchester United bow out of the FA Cup.

De Gea was selected ahead of Anders Lindegaard for the crunch clash against the club's rivals at Anfield but appeared to be troubled by crosses throughout.

His poor judgement then led to Daniel Agger giving the hosts the lead after the Dane nodded a corner, which De Gea had attempted to collect, goalward.

Finally, Dirk Kuyt's late goal had the young shot-stopper beaten easily and clinched a fith round berth for Kenny Dalglish's men at the expense of the Red Devils.

However, despite De Gea's nervy performance, Owen insisted that the former Atletico Madrid man will come good for United.

"One comment on yesterdays game. Don't agree with all this negativity towards De Gea," the forward wrote on his Twitter.

"Admittedly he has made a couple of mistakes this season but listening to some people you would think he had a nightmare yesterday.

"I'm not having either goal was his fault. The problem is, once you get labelled, mud sticks and now any tiny mistake is magnified. Other keepers make similar mistakes and nothing gets said.

"The ball was on the six yard box for the first goal. He has to go for it. He also needs to watch the flight of the ball. There is then six players in front of him. There is nothing he could do. The free header was the problem, not the keeper.

"He couldn't do much with the second goal either. Is the problem not just a case of us not winning the first ball and not picking up a runner?

"In my opinion two bad goals to give away but to blame everything on the keeper is totally wrong. The lad will be a top keeper, he is only young. Harsh to blame him for everything."

Owen also hailed the club's fans for backing the young shot stopper, adding: "Must say, as you will be quick to remind me, I've watched a lot of home games this season! The support from behind both goals for him has been brilliant.

"The fans know he needs their support, his confidence needs boosting. I'm sure he will repay that support for years to come."
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Completely agree with Owen. Our fans need to get to grips with reality and start supporting inexperienced goalkeepers when they make mistakes because all of them do it. Instead of doing the opposite and getting on his back like they also did with Ben Foster.

But having said that De Gea couldnt have done a lot more with the goals conceeded yesterday
 
phelans shorts said:
Why would QPR prefer to loan him than sign, let's say, Joe Lewis? they have the money so might as well sort out the long term.

Why would West Ham want him? Or Southampton? There's no advantage to them in this. So again I ask, who would want him?
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The Chelsea goalkeeper coach is on record as saying that's what he wants to happen and that's all I'm repeating.

There's been plenty of loan deals for keepers before and Chelsea seem sure Courtois will find a club next year. A newly promoted club won't care if he's only loaned - they'll want to survive at all costs and I'm sure they'll be interested in getting Courtois for very little outlay for a year.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
The Chelsea goalkeeper coach is on record as saying that's what he wants to happen and that's all I'm repeating.
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You said we should have signed and loaned out De Gea, as Chelsea are doing with Courtois, I'm saying they won't be able to do so, it just isn't viable (depending on who goes up via playoffs).

Also, note Ben Foster. Performing at that level means nothing in comparison.

There's been plenty of loan deals for keepers before and Chelsea seem sure Courtois will find a club next year. A newly promoted club won't care if he's only loaned - they'll want to survive at all costs and I'm sure they'll be interested in getting Courtois for very little outlay for a year.
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Is Courtois better than Robert Green? Would he replace club captain Kelvin Davies?
 
phelans shorts said:
You said we should have signed and loaned out De Gea, as Chelsea are doing with Courtois, I'm saying they won't be able to do so, it just isn't viable (depending on who goes up via playoffs).

Also, note Ben Foster. Performing at that level means nothing in comparison.



Is Courtois better than Robert Green? Would he replace club captain Kelvin Davies?
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My point is simply to compare Chelsea's approach to replacing a long serving great keeper with ours.

Whether Foster went on to nail down the Nr 1 slot for United is utterly irrelevant - he did go out on loan and I think a De Gea or a Courtois would benefit massively from such an experience and go on to gain from it back at their parent clubs.

Edit: And I'm not necessarily saying we should have loaned De Gea out for a season first. I'm more interested in the fact that Chelsea have already begun the process of replacing Cech and I think comparing that to our approach seems a worthwhile point to make. We could have signed De Gea earlier and helped him develop at the club as a Nr 2 for a year or two, without loaning him out.

I'm not trying to supply specific alternatives, just exploring whether there could have been a more sensible way to go about replacing Van der Sar.
 
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