I thought he was decent last night. He needs to be integrated into the squad more. The extra minutes will help his development and confidence. Trouble is, Anderson's return, coupled with Scholes' imminent return and Carrick coming back as well, is likely to ensure that doesn't happen.
Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
From the ratings thread
I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for the lad. No matter what he does, it seems a lot of United fans will never give him a break, yet somehow the same people have a strange obsession with Anderson who gets overated even when he was poor. Why don't people judge on a game by game basis, rather than pre-conceived ideas about players?
I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for the lad. No matter what he does, it seems a lot of United fans will never give him a break, yet somehow the same people have a strange obsession with Anderson who gets overated even when he was poor. Why don't people judge on a game by game basis, rather than pre-conceived ideas about players?
btw Finneh, your friend is a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime
ahem.. Anderson anyone?
I have no idea why people think there is some kind of conspiracy to scapegoat Gibson in favour of another player. He had a terrible game and was invisible for huge parts of it, apart from the assist (which was a pass that I'd have been mortified if he didn't make). I love how people are randomly making excuses such as he was probably tired as he hasn't played in a while... Surely that should mean he's fresh and even if his touch wasn't great he should have put in a top shift. These players do a thing during the week called training, which is actually designed to keep fitness levels high... Go figure.
He's 23 years old, not 18 anymore. He should be making an impact if he has a future at Man Utd.
I picked you out because you rated Gibson 2 and Anderson 6. Yet Gibson had an assist, and didnt give the ball away anymore than any of the other midfielders. Anderson got subbed. Go figure.
The bit highlighted, i've never seen you voice this opinion about Anderson, when week on week he drops dead on the pitch after 75 minutes. Go figure.
All i'm looking for is fairness in ratings, there are so many hypocritical posts in relation to Gibson its unbelievable.
I agree with that, its quite annoying, especially when they're in the minority. I wouldnt say he had a terrible game though, he just played like Darron Gibson. He needs to want the ball more as almost hides away from matches. You're right about his assist though, althoug I was expecting him to shoot, but the way some people are going on you'd think he pulled off some kind of 40 yard Ronaldinho no look pass or something.
I rated as I saw it. As I said in the ratings thread:
I actually don't think Anderson has looked particularly tired these last few weeks, I think he's been one of our best performers lately. I think he's been taken off prematurely in the last three games so I don't subscribe to the "drops dead on 75 mins" point of view.
But in all fairness I probably should have given Anderson a 5, I just always reward people with generous points if I think they are trying their hardest, despite not much coming off for them. Conversely I always deduct points when I see players ambling around when the ball is 10 yards from them instead of closing players down.
I also don't think you quite understand what hypocritical means.
actually I don't think either he or Carrick are good enough
Of course Carrick is good enough, and he's been getting back to his form which was a big contribution in our amazing 3 years of winning the PL. He's still only 29, plenty left in the tank.
Gibson, well who knows, right now you'd argue he isn't good enough by a long shot but SAF time and time again proves that if he has faith in a player to come good they probably will, Fletcher being a great example of this. Look how good Anderson is finally proving he can be too.
I'll trust SAF on this, he'll happily throw him out into the transfer market if he reckons he has nothing to give and get a few million for him.
That's dire Boss, leave them to Plech, please.
When i talk about Anderson dropping dead after 75 minutes, i am referring to the last 3 seasons, not just the last 3 games. Very little criticism for him. Yet, when Gibson tires around the same point, after his first competitive first team match in months, its suddenly a huge deal that he tired. Go figure.
I have a Collin's Dictionary and Thesaurus right here on my desk, an alternative phrasefor Hypocrisy is "two-facedness". That sum's it up really. Gibson is the new scape-goat when O'Shea isn't playing. No matter what any other player does, no matter how the others play, those 2 lads will always get negative ratings, no matter how they play on the night. Thats what irks me. Whether they are good enough long term is irrelevant, judge them on their performance for the day when they are picked, and for me a lot of people are not doing that.
I remember similar comments about Fletcher a few seasons ago.....
I think you'll find over the last 3 seasons there has been an incredible amount of criticism regarding Anderson. The majority of people saying he hasn't lived up to his potential/price tag, that he's overweight/unfit, that he obviously doesn't want to play for Man Utd... So I have no idea why you think he's in some sort of protective bubble against criticism, he's been criticised more than Gibson throughout his Utd career until recently.
Being hypocritical is more about not practicing what you preach, if I said that Anderson was brilliant solely because he made an assist but then said Gibson was garbage yesterday that would be hypocritical. Having a differing view of two players is not hypocritical and I can't see a single post regarding Gibson that is, some people thought he played well, some didn't that's all.
Look at the ratings, there's only one person who thought Gibson outperformed Anderson. I actually think people are rating Gibson more favourably because of his age and inexperience, not rating him poorly because of some kinf of conspiracy. The O'Shea stuff is the same, people don't just randomly make people scapegoats, they watch the games and call it as they see it.
If you think my post was a 'rant', I suggest you'd be better employed browsing through a dictionary...
I partly agree with the post you were responding to, that is 'he creazted nothing' during the game. One game-changing pass yes, but that;'s the sort of pass you'd erxpect any United player to make - maybe I'm being too harsh and according him the standards of GKs and wicket-keepers (only noticed when they feck up) - which is not synonymous with 'I think he was rubbish last night,' he certainly wasn't (and I realise that I may have been amiss here, not posting in the ratings thread and all.) I did think, however, this was a thread to discuss him, and the merit of his being in the squad, pulling on a red shirt, in general, not merely as a reaction to a solitary game.
In fact, the substance of your post (and lord knows why you felt the need to ramble on in defence of your post when you're simply summarising the substance of my post)... er, enough said. Basically, we agree on Gibson, you're simply gunning for Top Redding... well relative to the world-famous RedCafe. There can be opinions outside of the cosmos of the Caf y'know. Not everything said has to be relativised with respect to the matchday thread and the ratings thread.
(Apologies for the excessive use of subordinate clauses - but bloody hell, I'm not Mockney and hoping to making a living out of this shit.)
How was Anderson 'dire' and Gibson okay when there wasn't much between them yesterday at all? I know that you don't particularly like Anderson and don't have much trouble criticizing him, you've shown that on many occasions but that doesn't sound right at all.
Anderson is still very inconsistent, you never know what you're going to get with the lad
For feck's sake. All I'm doing is talking about football. Grow up.
Oh lordy, lordy.
Don't like being pinned down now, do you? Hence, the entrance of the green smiley and the college-debater (or do they call it Uni. in your part of the world?)'s change of tack. I'll buy you a beer if we ever meet, and I'm sure you're good comapny in person, but Christ on a space rocket, do you ever need this website to fill a void in your life!
"Dire" might be strong but I was emphasising how bad he was to make a point. Anderson is a much much better player than Gibson but he played worse than him last night.
Pinned down? What are you on about?
I objected to a juvenile little dig in your post. It had feck all to do with the substance of our discussion (which seemed to have run it's course?) but made you come across as 12 years old.
Definitely too young to buy alcohol in "the land of the free". I take it you'll need me to buy that beer on your behalf?
I'd agree. Playing twice in 48 hours was probably too much for Anderson to bear, his fitness will get there though but he needs to stop running around pointlessly at full pace and learn to use his energy. His improvement is a big one though because a performance like yesterday would have been considered a casual Anderson performance last season, now it's a one off bad game.
Yeah, agreed. I don't want to focus on his bad performance because he's been fantastic these last few games. The real high-light of the season for me.
I just find it unfair that when last night's game is discussed it's Gibson and Gibson only who cops this much slack for an individual performance that really wasn't all that bad.
I personally think the coaches got it wrong last night with Gibson. I'm not sure what role he had yesterday.
It's nonsense all right, because the way our midfield worked yesterday you could have put an in-form Pirlo there and he wouldn't have made a difference. None of our midfielders impressed yesterday, partly down to the fact that Carrick and Anderson had a game just two days before and Gibson hasn't played for a while, and partly down to the fact that Birmingham made sure that they'd bully us in midfield and press whenever we got the ball - and they hadn't had a game in two weeks so their energy levels were very high. To single out any of our midfielders is wrong because they all played at about the same level.
It was a tough game to impress in, we were only able to score through a bit magic Berbatov's play (he basically created the whole goal) and even if it lasted seven hours we wouldn't have been able to control the midfield under these circumstances.
Nani and Park were the players that we missed as Nani is usually able to create something out of nothing in games like this, his long range shots would have come handy when Birmingham put the wall in front of their goal in the first half. And there's no way any of them would have bully Park as he would have kept running around, the nutter that he is. Besides, once midfield got the ball yesterday there was no way to distribute it because Rooney was played out of position, and as a result kept running around pointlessly. No excuse for his first touch though because he's had enough games to sort that out already. Berbatov joined midfield at times and it was a good thing because he's actually very creative, in fact a goal was created mainly because he got there, but once he was there, he realized that there wasn't anyone in front of him as neither Rooney nor Giggs were getting involved.
No one's fault really, we put the best team we had available yesterday but it was so far from being our strongest one that it'd have been unfair to expect much from them against a team like Birmingham, even more so when you consider that Birmingham were at completely different planet fitness wise on the day due to certain reasons.
IMO The midfield was hardly the problem tbf. Our biggest issue was trying to play Giggs as right winger and Rooney on the left. When Fletcher came on for Ando SAF should have switched Giggs to the left and Fletcher to the right.
our problem was conceding in the final minute because up until then we were winning a tough game. I think Sir Alex likes to give chances to people he wants to look at, it's just a pity we did not get that second goal.
It's hard to judge Gibson - nice assist but he's missed too much football and you have to wonder what now for him. It will be tough to stay in the team
It's hard to judge Gibson - nice assist but he's missed too much football and you have to wonder what now for him. It will be tough to stay in the team
i thought it was fairly clear myself
First half he seemed to be more of a shielding role with Anderson given the license to get forward
2nd half it was obvious that he had been told to get forward as he was breaking forward everytime the ball was played up. I actually thought he was reasonably effective in that 4-3-3 role, certainly not as bad as some have made out
he wasn't, after any draw/defeat Gibson gets singled out the most
Fletcher should have started with Carrick then one of Gibson or Anderson played.
Thats if United insisted on playing that formation.
Thats if United insisted on playing that formation.
Shielding the defence is not one of his best attributes Geebs. His best moments have come playing further up the pitch.
Birmingham is not a Europe away. They should have played with Obertan on the right and Giggs on the left of midfield. Any combination of a midfield two would have been enough. Gave too much grass to Carr all night with the system employed.
I don't Gibson is ever going to be able to be more than a squad player but United do have problems in midfield in that Paul Scholes is the only player in that position who can be relied to dictate the tempo of a game, the rest seem to be workhorses, Giggs to a lesser extent but he likes Scholes can't be used every game due to his age and fitness. Midfield is the one area that concerns me, because we're going to have to spend a lot of money to replace Giggs and Scholes very soon, and maybe Hargreaves as well.
I actually thought Gibson did alright yesterday, which was annoying because I was telling my brothers how shit he was going to be and how he'd have 10 or so shots. He had 1 that I can remember.
Nothing spectacular but a decent performance, much like the rest of the team (Carrick, Rafael and Berbatov were our best 3).
Nothing spectacular but a decent performance, much like the rest of the team (Carrick, Rafael and Berbatov were our best 3).
The first team selection was okay but the formation was in tatters tbh
I agree, I would not have gone with that formation myself, but in fairness to Fergie, Birmingham never looked like scoring and VDS did not have one save to make.
For what it is worth, I think the formation hinder us going forward. Rooney was alienated out wide, and Giggs was stuck on the right wing.
Fletcher could have played on the right and Giggs on the left, giving us the option of moving into a fluid Euro away formation during the course of the game, or when Birmingham had possession (If Fergie insisted on using it).
Personally, I would have just set out as we would at OT and smashed them.
Given that your economy is infernally shit, let me be buying the drinks, eh - if we're to have any at all, that is.
(And that, my dear fella, is a 'dig,' unlike anything in my original post - again, you could do worse than make a dictionary your best friend and ally...)
Let me mimic your verbiage and say again, for your clarity, that my 'objection' was to your dismissive reaction to an eminently sensible sentiment - in fact, one that you've yourself spent the better part of the last two pages making...
What's that then? Top Redding? No, I was wrong. It's Top RedCafing is what it is. And the fact of your online persona occupying an incredible amount of your everyday psyche would be the bit where you were pinned down. Denial as they say, flows not only in North Africa. (Actually, maybe they say something else. Bu tyou get the point.)
And I'm not even commenting on the irony of someone who enjoys dishing out playground insults using the word 'juvenile' yet. (Pls refer to the bit about the dictionary above.)
Oh give it a rest. You're becoming tedious now. Grow up, stick to talking football and leave the "Top Reddish" nonsense to the school-kids.
Radd isnt so rad is he?
Anderson's performance was worrying because it appeared he had found himself in the last few games, and this was just another in that run. He tried the killer pass too often, something I thought he had limited in his last few games by keeping the ball better. And I was laughing when he sprinted at Ferdinand to get the ball, something that is weird.
Gibson isn't a poor player, but we must be always trying to improve. Gibson won't let us get to the standard of Barcelona, or a dominant United side. He offers very little, and again, I think it is a mistake Cleverley isn't in the team instead.
He was ill and not fully fit mate, that's why he wasn't played.