There is a massive difference between league 1/championship and United. But oh well.
Darren Fletcher - Technical Director
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
There is a massive difference between league 1/championship and United. But oh well.
Exactly. His family tree has nothing to do with it, nor does his great record as a footballer. It's a totally different role that requires different qualities. One's history and understanding of the game are important, but not enough.
My main issue with Fletcher's appointment - and rather weird quick rising through the ranks - was simple: I did not understand who at the club at the time would have had the ability to identify that Fletcher (or anyone else who was unproven) had the right qualities for those roles.
And Arsenal's coaches? Or you just ignoring that part?
Round stayed with United for few months, stuivenberg for 2 years. I don't recall that they were many criticism surrounding them
Well there was lots.
People that Moyes brought from Everton were famously uncriticised on the forum.
His Nationality.
Steve Round had ample experience as no 2 prior of joining United. Stuivenberg had less (U17 and U21 with the Dutch league). The criticism was usually raised at the respective managers rather then to them. Moyes was horribly out of depth and he made the mistake of sacking most of SAF's people prior to even settling down while LVG was basically a tactical dinosaur.
The only person I criticised harshly at the time was Jim Lumsden and that criticism came straight from the people within the club.
You liked shitting on Steve Round when it suited you as well.
My point was that you can't compare anyone really with the wealth of knowledge and experience Paolo Maldini has about his club. We're talking of a person whose family had been involved with Milan since the 50s when Cesare was an AC Milan player and then went on to become manager, director and assistant manager. Then he came out from the academy, he made his debut as a player at age 16 and he spent 25 years there winning everything there is to win at club level multiple times. He also have a son aka Daniel playing there too.
I can't recall anyone who has such experience at any given club.
Since we don't have anyone like that available at United, who should be our technical director then? If experience from the club is important, surely Fletch is up there, no?
You mean this?
He's not rough around the edges that's for sure
I was making a joke on his surname mate.
Those links are referring to the questioning and criticism he got from the whole forum.
No because you ignored the one I posted from you. Plus everything else I've said.
He does that lot.
Who was comparing those exact things apart from you? Comparisons were about qualifications before hiring on a directorial position and none of those things you mentioned translate directly to being even an adequate director.
He's threadbanned now for not debating in good faith.
I know this is off topic, but can you give a bit more background on this? What did Maldini do or say to be ostracised by the Milan fans? It would take something extraordinary for United fans to boo King Eric and Maldini is arguably an even bigger legend for Milan than Cantona is for us.
To be fair Fletcher was nothing if not bright. Think I read an Athletic report on the private school the united scholars and the headmaster identified both Darren Fletcher and Jonny Evans as having been very academically gifted. Elanga supposed to be another smart cookie.
I’m sure Bryan Robson could recount the history of United no problem, or Fletcher for that matter. It all means diddly squat as to whether they can do the job. Maldini could equally have failed, and that’s nothing to do with his stature as a successful player at the club before.
You only have to listen to Fletcher to know he’s an intelligent guy with a good instinct for football
You keep writing the same stuff about how many CLs Maldini won as a player. Or the closest Fletcher came to being world class was when he was sitting next to Giggs and Scholes. All correct but not even slightly relevant here.
We are not comparing Fletcher the ex player to them. Neither did Maldini win all those CLs in the role Fletcher currently has. Neither is there any proof that world class Giggs or Scholes would be better suited for Fletcher‘s current role.
If honours as players were important for a role in the board or coaching staff then Messi and Ronaldo would be the best Directors, managers, coaches or DoFs.
Then you come up with Ancelotti who Milan didn’t even produce and who started his career several decades ago. You couldn’t even come up with a more recent example. Then all you do to explain all this is trying to justify why “job for boys” for Maldini family is unique/different. Which again has no relevance to Fletcher’s current role.
Darren Fletcher's role at United is very different to the role Maldini is occupying at AC Milan. Maldini is the head of the football departments at Milan, whilst Fletcher first joined as a youth coach and was then given more responsibility by the full-time managers, where he is reported to be helping direct the first team coaching staff on who should be making the step up to first team training aided by the likes of Nick Cox. So he was promoted from coaching the youth full time to helping select which youth players were ready to step upto first team training.
What some of you need to ask yourself is, that do you even want to attempt to learn what the likes of Fletcher do or carry on being led astray by a title given to him. The actual technical director helping oversee the football side of the club is Andy O'Boyle. And from what's been reported, he hasn't only been assisting with transfer negotiations at first team level but also oversees the academy/recruitment since he arrived late last year.
And Italian football clubs don't produce football managers but rather they produce football players who are influenced by other football people which shapes their coaching career. Arrigo Sacchi was the revolutionary coach at Milan in the late 80s and he was heavily influenced by the Dutch team of the 70s. Ancelotti himself was influenced by the Swedish coach Nils Liedholm in his own words when the Swede was managing Roma.
Arrigo Sacchi “The last 50 years in the sport have been a constant evolution from Ajax to Holland, Milan to Guardiola’s Barcelona. Without evolution, the sport is dead. Without risks, you remain in the past, whereas innovation makes you change every year."
“In Italy, we have this short-term view of everything and want to stop time, stick with the past. Pessimism blocks your brain. If you play in defence, how can you grow?”
https://football-italia.net/ancelotti-sacchi-pep-on-mentors/
Sacchi's words still ring true today imo. Italian football hasn't evolved as much as other big leagues and we still see general managers and DoFs attempt to implement a dated method of football., with the exception of a few teams.
What some of you need to ask yourself is, that do you even want to attempt to learn what the likes of Fletcher do or carry on being led astray by a title given to him. The actual technical director helping oversee the football side of the club is Andy O'Boyle. And from what's been reported, he hasn't only been assisting with transfer negotiations at first team level but also oversees the academy/recruitment since he arrived late last year.
And Italian football clubs don't produce football managers but rather they produce football players who are influenced by other football people which shapes their coaching career. Arrigo Sacchi was the revolutionary coach at Milan in the late 80s and he was heavily influenced by the Dutch team of the 70s. Ancelotti himself was influenced by the Swedish coach Nils Liedholm in his own words when the Swede was managing Roma.
Arrigo Sacchi “The last 50 years in the sport have been a constant evolution from Ajax to Holland, Milan to Guardiola’s Barcelona. Without evolution, the sport is dead. Without risks, you remain in the past, whereas innovation makes you change every year."
“In Italy, we have this short-term view of everything and want to stop time, stick with the past. Pessimism blocks your brain. If you play in defence, how can you grow?”
https://football-italia.net/ancelotti-sacchi-pep-on-mentors/
Sacchi's words still ring true today imo. Italian football hasn't evolved as much as other big leagues and we still see general managers and DoFs attempt to implement a dated method of football., with the exception of a few teams.
Can we forum ban him for the same reason? EVERY. THREAD.
I don't get why some people put any importance in what Fletcher does, I am not saying he doing nothing of value or anything like that, but he is just a support staff at the end of the day and doesn't hold a key position.
In the club's current football setup, it has the below people occupying key positions:
CEO - Richard Arnold
Football Director - John Mortough
Head Coach/First Team Manager - Erik Ten Hag
Head of Recruitment - Steve Brown
Head of Youth Development - Nick Cox
The rest like McLaren or Fletcher or O'Boyle are just subordinates to those key people, Fletcher does not make final decisions on any important matter nor does he get delegated to make those decisions, I don't put much stock on the narrative that he is promoted, he just advices on certain matters, being a youth coach or a technical director is the same thing really as both roles aren't key in any way within the club's football structure.
In the club's current football setup, it has the below people occupying key positions:
CEO - Richard Arnold
Football Director - John Mortough
Head Coach/First Team Manager - Erik Ten Hag
Head of Recruitment - Steve Brown
Head of Youth Development - Nick Cox
The rest like McLaren or Fletcher or O'Boyle are just subordinates to those key people, Fletcher does not make final decisions on any important matter nor does he get delegated to make those decisions, I don't put much stock on the narrative that he is promoted, he just advices on certain matters, being a youth coach or a technical director is the same thing really as both roles aren't key in any way within the club's football structure.
So is that him admitting he does nothing?
Ladies and gentlemen, we got him
His title has been changed to Director Technical
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Director of winding up Dev
Chairman of the Bored
Glad to hear he's staying on. Would've been mental to not keep him.
Well, technically he is demoted. But I have no idea whether this is a good or bad news. He is from Ed/Arnold, Murtough group who IMO appointed to the position without proper track records.
Having said that his position is not "important" and will have no major effects in the new structure, then I'm all good.
Having said that his position is not "important" and will have no major effects in the new structure, then I'm all good.
The difference with Fletcher as a player and a man he knows what success looks like at the club, the others didn’t have a clue!
He’s getting his job title amended, should never have been technical director because that wasn’t what he was doing
It was just a title. No technical director sits on the bench at any other club.
Not true. Pretty sure this was pointed out before at other clubs.