Dante: Rooney is world class

Amar__ said:
I am waiting for you to give me few examples...
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Bit lazy of you not to make any effort to think back yourself tbh. This season's a funny one because the whole team has been so shite against the best opposition it's been hard for any individual to excel. Rooney was excellent when we put Leverkusen to the sword though.

If you're prepared to put in the effort to cast your mind waaaaaaay back to last season, you can take your pick of good performances against tough opposition in the PL. For Cl you'll need to go back another couple of seasons (if you can cope?) because Madrid were the only decent side we played in 2012/13 and we didn't get out of our group the season before. In 2010/11 Rooney consistently excelled in the CL, creating or scoring in every round of the competition, right the way through to the final.

In fact, one of the defining aspects of Rooney's career at Manchester United is his ability to put in big performances (usually including goals) in big games. Absolutely mental for these performances to have somehow slipped your memory. Mental or terminally biased. Either way your opinions on Rooney are probably best ignored.
 
I saw stats recently that said that over the last six or seven years (can't remember exactly), he's in the top ten in Europe for goals and in the top ten for assists. Only Messi and Ronaldo are above him in both lists. Given that his real value as a player, for me, comes from things that can't be represented in statistics, I'd say he's easily world class. Unless your 'world class' bracket includes less than ten players.
 
AR87 said:
Leverkusen away and home in the group stages. City away this season Rooney was basically the only one on the pitch for United that you could say performed well.
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Leverkusen is top class team? City away he was average, but best of the bunch, far from world class performance. If that was World Class performance than Welbeck was out of this world against them at Old Trafford, and Dzeko was Messi.
 
He's quite obviously world class, shouldn't be up for debate. He's been world class ever since he started playing football ffs.
 
Even in 11-12 in the Europa League aginst Bilbao, Rooney and De Gea were the only two that looked as if they could be arsed to show up. Rooney scored a wonder goal in the 2nd leg at San Mames and received quite an ovation from the Bilbao crowd not just for that effort, but for his overall energy that evening on a night when the rest of the squad did nothing.
 
AR87 said:
City away last season Rooney scored a brace as well.
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I'll give you that, it was actually good performance from him.

Just to be clear, I don't think he is shit in big games, his consistency is actually better in big games, but his top level is far from world's best players. For example, van Persie's 3/4 of the season last year were on higher level than Rooney played probably ever for us.
 
The main reason Rooney looks world class is because most English footballers aren't anywhere near it.

We just haven't got it in the hips.
 
Amar__ said:
Leverkusen is top class team? City away he was average, but best of the bunch, far from world class performance. If that was World Class performance than Welbeck was out of this world against them at Old Trafford, and Dzeko was Messi.
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They aren't a world class team but 5-0 away in the Champions League is a pretty nice result. This is such a loaded and bogus question considering our entire squad has been shit against the best teams we've played this season save last week against Munich. Rooney's record in big matches over the course of his career is something that even most of his critics wouldn't question.
 
Amar__ said:
I'll give you that, it was actually good performance from him.

Just to be clear, I don't think he is shit in big games, his consistency is actually better in big games, but his top level is far from world's best players. For example, van Persie's 3/4 of the season last year were on higher level than Rooney played probably ever for us.
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Rubbish, rooney in the 09/10 season matched van persie last season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Bit lazy of you not to make any effort to think back yourself tbh. This season's a funny one because the whole team has been so shite against the best opposition it's been hard for any individual to excel. Rooney was excellent when we put Leverkusen to the sword though.
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Pogue Mahone said:
If you're prepared to put in the effort to cast your mind waaaaaaay back to last season, you can take your pick of good performances against tough opposition in the PL. For Cl you'll need to go back another couple of seasons (if you can cope?) because Madrid were the only decent side we played in 2012/13 and we didn't get out of our group the season before. In 2010/11 Rooney consistently excelled in the CL, creating or scoring in every round of the competition, right the way through to the final.

In fact, one of the defining aspects of Rooney's career at Manchester United is his ability to put in big performances (usually including goals) in big games. Absolutely mental for these performances to have somehow slipped your memory. Mental or terminally biased. Either way your opinions on Rooney are probably best ignored.
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As I said, Leverkusen is far from top class team. And he wasn't probably our best player against them too, but even if he was, that was one of our easiest games this season.

Madrid is nice example, I don't know why are you ignoring it? Because he played out of position probably? Isn't that down to his form or because one of the greatest managers of all time thought he isn't good enough to play in the middle against them, or actually start in the second game at all.
And year before, he was actually very poor against Basel away, in game where Nani was our best player of the night by a mile?(should I say Nani is still one of the best wingers in the world because of that)

Season before he actually had good game against Barca, but from what I remember he totally ignored his job of marking Busquets(I am not denying he had a good game, but that's one of the reasons Fergie didn't trust him against Madrid probably), and that year our attack was far from great, our defence carried us through the whole campaign.

As I said in some of my previous posts, I am not saying he is choker or flat track bully, his performances in big games are actually more consistent than against weaker opponents, but I don't think they are on such a high level at all.
 
It depends what you'd call World Class. If I were making 5 first XI's consisting of the World's best player's he would not be in either of them. I'm not sure he'd be in the 6th either. This isn't because he isn't one of the best 55 player's in the world. It's because he isn't better than 5-6 other player's in any position. This is Rooney's biggest problem, he doesn't really have a position which compliments all his attributes, which means that he doesn't look 100% comfortable in any position unless he's playing brilliantly, whereby he can look incredible in every position.

As a number 9 I'd have RVP, Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Ibrahimovic and Aguero ahead of him at a minimum (with Neymar/Falcao/Lewandowski at a similar level)

As a number 10 I'd have Mata, Ozil, Iniesta, Gotze, Silva, as well as possibly Oscar/Hazard ahead of him.

That's before mixing players that are arguably better in both positions (Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovich).

Personally I believe Rooney is such a well rounded player that he is actually very good in almost every position. He excels as a striker, behind the striker and coming from the left (and presumably the right). He would also make a very competent central midfielder. Unfortunately this unrivaled versatility means that he doesn't meet my criteria for World Class.
 
finneh said:
It depends what you'd call World Class. If I were making 5 first XI's consisting of the World's best player's he would not be in either of them. I'm not sure he'd be in the 6th either. This isn't because he isn't one of the best 55 player's in the world. It's because he isn't better than 5-6 other player's in any position. This is Rooney's biggest problem, he doesn't really have a position which compliments all his attributes, which means that he doesn't look 100% comfortable in any position unless he's playing brilliantly, whereby he can look incredible in every position.

As a number 9 I'd have RVP, Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Ibrahimovic and Aguero ahead of him at a minimum (with Neymar/Falcao/Lewandowski at a similar level)

As a number 10 I'd have Mata, Ozil, Iniesta, Gotze, Silva, as well as possibly Oscar/Hazard ahead of him.

That's before mixing players that are arguably better in both positions (Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovich).

Personally I believe Rooney is such a well rounded player that he is actually very good in almost every position. He excels as a striker, behind the striker and coming from the left (and presumably the right). He would also make a very competent central midfielder. Unfortunately this unrivaled versatility means that he doesn't meet my criteria for World Class.
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Then you need to reassess your criteria. Versatility is a strength, not a weakness. It's one of the main reasons Rooney is so highly thought off by opposition players and managers.
 
I think if Rooney had a full season as a no 9 with mata et all behind we would soon be reminded of how good he can be. He would bag 25 plus easy as he did a few years back if iirc, lots of different goals too. There is a good reason mou wanted him for that role pretty badly it seems.
 
RooneyLegend said:
He's quite obviously world class, shouldn't be up for debate. He's been world class ever since he started playing football ffs.
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Not sure about since he ever started, but he's definitely world class for me.
 
Rossa said:
Nope, but that he isn't amongst the best strikers in the world anymore and that he would be hard pressed to fit into teams like:

Bayern
City
Barcelona
Real
Athletico
PSG

And you might even throw in Liverpool on current form. He would play regularly for Chelsea though.
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He's better than the strikers playing at half those clubs.
 
Amar__ said:
As I said, Leverkusen is far from top class team. And he wasn't probably our best player against them too, but even if he was, that was one of our easiest games this season.

Madrid is nice example, I don't know why are you ignoring it? Because he played out of position probably? Isn't that down to his form or because one of the greatest managers of all time thought he isn't good enough to play in the middle against them, or actually start in the second game at all.
And year before, he was actually very poor against Basel away, in game where Nani was our best player of the night by a mile?(should I say Nani is still one of the best wingers in the world because of that)

Season before he actually had good game against Barca, but from what I remember he totally ignored his job of marking Busquets(I am not denying he had a good game, but that's one of the reasons Fergie didn't trust him against Madrid probably), and that year our attack was far from great, our defence carried us through the whole campaign.

As I said in some of my previous posts, I am not saying he is choker or flat track bully, his performances in big games are actually more consistent than against weaker opponents, but I don't think they are on such a high level at all.
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Did you just discount Leverkusen because they are not a top class team, but then cite Basel?
 
AR87 said:
They aren't a world class team but 5-0 away in the Champions League is a pretty nice result. This is such a loaded and bogus question considering our entire squad has been shit against the best teams we've played this season save last week against Munich. Rooney's record in big matches over the course of his career is something that even most of his critics wouldn't question.
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Nah, we were awful against Bayern too. It's was just okay in the context of how awful we've been.

Have we parked the bus at home vs Bayern last year under Fergie and drawn 1-1 at home it would have been considered a bafflingly bad result/performance.
 
Adebesi said:
Did you just discount Leverkusen because they are not a top class team, but then cite Basel?
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No, but he mentioned that season so I mentioned Basel as important/tough game where he was poor.
 
The game that springs to my mind in the "Rooney: Big Game Player" debate is always one from a good few years ago now, when we went out to Bayern Munich (again) and Rooney played despite having some kind of a metatarsal or ankle injury... he was absolutely immense for the early part of that game before they put it out of our reach and it just wasnt enough. Still, that game cast into full view just how utterly reliant on him we were at that time - and what a big game player he was (and is).
 
Blasphemy said:
Nah, we were awful against Bayern too. It's was just okay in the context of how awful we've been.

Have we parked the bus at home vs Bayern last year under Fergie and drawn 1-1 at home it would have been considered a bafflingly bad result/performance.
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That's crap. People can argue the toss about whether or not it was a good performance (and they have been, all week) but it clearly wasn't a bad team performance. Definitely stands out from the genuinely bad displays we've seen against the best PL teams this season.

The only other games against decent sides this season would arguably be against Arsenal but hindsight makes those games look less impressive with every passing week. Bayern are a class above ever team we've played domestically this season and a bad performance would have seen us getting comfortably beaten.
 
Adebesi said:
The game that springs to my mind in the "Rooney: Big Game Player" debate is always one from a good few years ago now, when we went out to Bayern Munich (again) and Rooney played despite having some kind of a metatarsal or ankle injury... he was absolutely immense for the early part of that game before they put it out of our reach and it just wasnt enough. Still, that game cast into full view just how utterly reliant on him we were at that time - and what a big game player he was (and is).
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There's a bunch of PL games which reinforce his status as a big game player but for me his best ever CL display was when he played on his own up top against Milan and ran rings around them.

Might have been that same season actually?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Then you need to reassess your criteria. Versatility is a strength, not a weakness. It's one of the main reasons Rooney is so highly thought off by opposition players and managers.
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People should also look at how well he actually plays in the 90 minutes of football actually played on the pitch.

When people talk about Rooney being world class they go on and on about his versatility, how well rounded he is and all this other stuff but the performances he actually puts out on the pitch this season and last season are nowhere near world class level and that is what matters. Not a bunch of skills and attributes he theoretically has and is theoretically good at.

There's a really good reason why Sir Alex was considering getting rid and it's because on the pitch week in week out he's not actually that good. He has his moments and games no doubt but he hasn't consistently played at a world class level in years.

World class is what Suarez is doing right now, it's what Messi and Ronaldo do every season or what Bale did last season. World class players make the difference game after game after game. Rooney doesn't do that, he has as many bad games as good and his real world class level games are few and far between.
 
Adebesi said:
The game that springs to my mind in the "Rooney: Big Game Player" debate is always one from a good few years ago now, when we went out to Bayern Munich (again) and Rooney played despite having some kind of a metatarsal or ankle injury... he was absolutely immense for the early part of that game before they put it out of our reach and it just wasnt enough. Still, that game cast into full view just how utterly reliant on him we were at that time - and what a big game player he was (and is).
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I'd say Rooney is fairly middle of the road as a big game player. He's not like someone like say Ibrahimovic who rarely shows up (although even Zlatan's not as bad in big games as people claim) but he's certainly no Iniesta or Zidane either.

He's had some brilliant games in the big fixtures and plenty of anonymous ones.
 
Blasphemy said:
People should also look at how well he actually plays in the 90 minutes of football actually played on the pitch.

When people talk about Rooney being world class they go on and on about his versatility, how well rounded he is and all this other stuff but the performances he actually puts out on the pitch this season and last season are nowhere near world class level and that is what matters. Not a bunch of skills and attributes he theoretically has and is theoretically good at.

There's a really good reason why Sir Alex was considering getting rid and it's because on the pitch week in week out he's not actually that good. He has his moments and games no doubt but he hasn't consistently played at a world class level in years.
World class is what Suarez is doing right now, it's what Messi and Ronaldo do every season or what Bale did last season. World class players make the difference game after game after game. Rooney doesn't do that, he has as many bad games as good and his real world class level games are few and far between.
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Again, crap.

Without getting into the whole tedious "what is world class" debate you can't just single out the two best players on the planet right now both of whom will have a decent claim to be the best ever) and try to argue that anyone who doesn't meet those standards is not world class. Ditto picking the best players in the tier below, having the best season of their career.

Remains to be seen if Suarez will keep up this season's form or if he's having a similar season to the one where Rooney racked up almost a goal a game in the league, until an unfortunate injury messed up the last few weeks of his season.

You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Here's a quote from a piece by Sean Ingle in the Grauniad comparing him with strikers across Europe:

A reasonable starting point is to compare his goals and assists to everyone else in the five major European leagues since 2006-07 – the season Lionel Messi established himself at Barcelona and Cristiano Ronaldo first scored more than 10 Premier League goals. On that measure, Rooney is the sixth highest goalscorer across the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and Ligue 1 with 129 goals. Only Ronaldo (258), Messi (240), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (170), Antonio Di Natale (154) and Mario Gómez (135) have scored more. David Villa, Edinson Cavani, Sergio Agüero and Gonzalo Higuaín are all in Rooney's slipstream.

What about assists? Again Rooney makes the top 10.

He is eighth with 66 – only Messi and Cesc Fábregas (91 each), Mesut Özil (86), Daniel Alves (78), Franck Ribéry (75), Ronaldo (68) and Xavi (67) have more.
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Those stats speak for themselves, even though they ignore arguably his best assets; his workrate, commitment to the cause and ability to play in a number of different positions (which he has done throughout the time period being assessed)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Then you need to reassess your criteria. Versatility is a strength, not a weakness. It's one of the main reasons Rooney is so highly thought off by opposition players and managers.
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Versatility in itself is a strength, but versatility usually has a cost of not being as proficient in any definite position, which is Rooney's problem. Very rarely can player's be World Class in a number of positions and Rooney isn't one of those rare freaks. His versatility is the reason why he's only been voted to be in the top 10 the World for 3 in 10 seasons, despite being such a hugely marketable name (Ballon D'or voting: 8th, not nominated, not nominated, 26th, 13th, 8th, not nominated, 5th, 15th, not nominated).

To be perfectly honest his versatility is not even a massive benefit now that it is apparent that he does not want to play in any position except the positions we have better players. I said in the other thread our best team has Rooney on the left, Mata through the middle and RVP up top. Call it a hunch but I doubt we will see this very often.

/Edit: Also in reference to him being the 6th highest goalscorer and eighth highest assist maker in the last 8 seasons - how many player's have actually been playing for the best club in their League for that length of time? Your point highlights his longevity which is brilliant, but it doesn't reference him ever specifically being World Class over a finite amount of time.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Again, crap.

Without getting into the whole tedious "what is world class" debate you can't just single out the two (now three) best players on the planet right now (two of whom will have a decent claim to be the best ever) and try to argue that anyone who doesn't meet those standards is not world class.

Remains to be seen if Suarez will keep up this season's form or if he's having a similar season to the one where Rooney racked up almost a goal a game in the league.

You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Here's a quote from a piece by Sean Ingle in the Grauniad comparing him with strikers across Europe:



Those stats speak for themselves, even though they ignore arguably his best assets; his workrate, commitment to the cause and ability to play in a number of different positions (which he has done throughout the time period being assessed)
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I'm not arguing that Rooney is a bad player. I'm saying that this season and last he hasn't performed at the elite level you need to be a world class forward. His goal record for example is 33 goals in 74 games. That's alright, but world class?

It's not like he's some assist machine either who spends the game playing defence splitters, he's a good passer of the ball but you only need to watch Mata's performances for us behind Rooney to see the difference when you have a top level passer of the ball in that position.
 
The term "world class" is making this thread a bit of a joke to be honest. It's like having an official title for a specific amount of time, or something you can quantifiably measure. He's a top player, has been at a top club for a decade, and is 3rd in the all time scoring charts for Manchester United. What the feck more needs to be said?
 
I think as a defender you think WC meaning about 5 players that you've played against that are a lot better than the rest. I'm sure he hasn't played against many strikers that are better than Rooney.
 
What do people want from him? He was World Class as an 20 year old. He provided the perfect foil to Ronaldo during their time together and was World Class but of course people forget about that because his stats weren't good enough. Ronaldo leaves and Rooney carries the team up until his injury against Bayern and produces great stats and arguably could have led the team to the League and Champions League if he hadn't been hacked. We proceed to then fall apart and throw it all away depsite being able to hold it together when we lost Ronaldo at first. Of course this is underrated because apparently his overall play suffered.

Rooney's so called periods of bad form are overstated and he still remains effective and more important to our team than the majority of our players during these times. He is almost our top ever goalscorer, is close to the top of both the all time goalscoring and assists for the Premier League. Not bad for a player whose apparently only had a couple of World Class seasons.

Since Ronaldo and Tevez left he has done a brilliant job being our main man but he has been surrounded by players who are not at the level of the other top teams (aside from RVP who doesn't work well with him for reasons everyone is aware of). This season should have finally proven to people that one player can't win games on his own and tactics are more important than pretty much anything else in football. He has played the last 3 years being used to fill gaps for our constantly diminishing quality and has been subject to Fergie's not so excellent tactics (Quieroz was the last time we really were top class tactically). Now he plays for a dinosaur and with a team that bears no identity and can't dominate a game or even look consistently dangerous.

Yes his technique is now a bit iffy which I personally trace back to the Bayern injury and having to play unfit at a World Cup. Which bears in mind that he hasn't been fully fit for an International tournament since he was a teenager but he was always brought and made play because aside from Gerrard he was the only top class player England had (Lampard never done it in an England shirt at all).

The players he is being compared to play with quality teams and mostly for quality managers with an actual game plan (not a dig at Fergie but he has never been the best tactical manager around and I'm inclined to think he got a little lazy in the last couple of years which he was entitled to do, however it's not like he was awful tactically like Moyes). Think back to the end of Ibrahimovic's time at Barca when he was dropped for Bojan because Guardiola couldn't make it work with him in the team. This isn't Ibra's fault he just found himself in a system that didn't suit him. Why is RVP doing so badly this season whereas Rooney has been our best outfield player? For me it's because despite RVP's technique Rooney is the one who can grab a game when the going gets tough. Put him in his preferred position in a proper system and I'm guessing we would see a different level to Rooney. Anyone doubting this look at Liverpool, look at Henderson, Sturridge and even Suarez who have all hit a new level in a system devised to get the best from them. Is it possible Rooney's touch has suffered because we don't do enough work on this stuff in training? It would explain why most of our players have a 2nd rate touch apart from the ones who ironically came from being coached by Wenger, Klopp and a guy who learnt to play in Spain. Also I find it hard to believe his technique is that bad when he has scored some unbelievable goals this season and in seasons past. We even seen his eye for a through ball when he was paired with Hernandez, i.e a striker who runs in behind the lines.

The reason why he is so highly rated amongst players and managers is because he is as good as they say he is. For all this talk of him getting into other teams I'd wager that someone like Barca would be much more dangerous right now with him up top and Messi back on the right. However if this isn't the case it don't mean he isn't World Class it's down to the system of play those teams play and him not fitting it just like Ibra didn't. We have been so long dependent on his and RVP's individual brilliance that we have forgotten that a player can only hit his top level consistently when played in a team with a collective identity (take Messi's failure to replicate hi club form at International level as case in point).

He may not have reached the heights of his huge potential like Ronaldo did (mixture of a little lack of work ethic training wise and mostly injuries) but he is still World Class by any definition or else there aren't any World Class players outside of the obvious 7 or 8.
 
Blasphemy said:
I'm not arguing that Rooney is a bad player. I'm saying that this season and last he hasn't performed at the elite level you need to be a world class forward. His goal record for example is 33 goals in 74 games. That's alright, but world class?

It's not like he's some assist machine either who spends the game playing defence splitters, he's a good passer of the ball but you only need to watch Mata's performances for us behind Rooney to see the difference when you have a top level passer of the ball in that position.
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He hasn't played as a No. 9 for the majority of the last 2 seasons though has he? In the two seasons in which he played as the club's undisputed league striker he scored 34 in 44 appearances in 2009-10 and 34 in 43 appearances in 2011-12. I mean RVP was great last year and was the biggest reason we won the PL in that season, but ultimately that was a massive luxury purchase by SAF. It's like he bought Kagawa to play as a No. 10 behind Rooney, then got his knickers in a twist when RVP was available and scrapped that plan.

SAF is arguably the most important figure in the history of Manchester United, but his transfer strategy since Ronaldo was sold has been questionable with his inability to address our need in the CM for a defensive shield to allow Carrick to a play a more creative role further forward at times, as well as a creative CM that could dictate play from deep like Scholes. Additionally Ferguson did try to add a world class winger in bids for Hazard, Lucas and Neymar, but he was trumped by Chelsea pulling a CL title out of their arses, PSG paying over the odds for Lucas and Barcelona paying Neymar's family finder's fees.

Now as a result we have an imbalanced squad (should still be in a CL spot), that has the same holes to fill on the wing and CM with additional holes now needing to be filled at CB and LB. I think it's probably fair to assume Ferguson would have sold Rooney this summer, but I also think he needs to shoulder some responsibility for having moved Rooney about positionally from a No. 10, to a role wide left, to a true No. 9, back to a No. 10, back to a No. 9 and then back to a No. 10 last season. Rooney isn't particularly great when he plays in behind a striker like Van Persie who isn't the most mobile of strikers, but in the second half of 2010-11 when he played behind Hernandez he had what I think was his most brilliant stretch of football. The 2nd leg in the CL at Old Trafford against Marseille in particular sticks out to me.

Ultimately all I'm saying is that I believe Rooney to be a world class player, but one who has been moved around a lot to the point that it's hard to actually remember the specific periods in which he played in a given role. I think arguing whether Rooney is world class isn't worthwhile because he is far from the biggest problem with our squad and has been one of the few players I'd say that's made a positive impression this season.
 
Rossa said:
Dant's comments about Rooney being world class led me to think of two possible scenarios regarding our debated player.

1. He truly is world class, and the players who keep on mentioning him alongside the very best of players see something that a lot of fans, me included, fail to see.

2. The players who comment on him don't know much about him other than his reputation. The thing that led me to this is Dante's comment that he is very quick on the first few yards. Really, he isn't anymore. Rooney was once very quick, not that much slower than Ronaldo really, but sadly he's lost that. Do players and managers who keep mentioning Rooney as world class say that based on reputation or actual ability? Messi once said that Rooney would thrive at Barcelona because of his eminent technique, while many fans slate him for his somewhat average at best technique.

So which is it?
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He's still rated as the 8th fastest player in the world though ??

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/04/06/worlds-fastest-footballer-revealed-not-baleronaldowalcott/
 
Man Utd Mrs said:
He's still rated as the 8th fastest player in the world though ??

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/04/06/worlds-fastest-footballer-revealed-not-baleronaldowalcott/
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There is absolutely no chance on earth that Wayne Rooney is faster than:

Agbonlahor, Aubameyang, Navas.

And probably a bunch of other players too.

Seems really weird/unlikely to me as well that despite West Africans (or people from the Americas of that descent) being completely untouchable in Olympic sprinting that there's not a single non mixed race West African in this list.
 
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