Good post! Sounds very plausible to me.
Dante: Rooney is world class
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Good post! Sounds very plausible to me.
Fellaini has better chest control, though.
As someone pointed out above, he's usually good in the big matches, but he is prone to losing the ball, making poor touches, bad simple passes etc against average opposition. That's something they are probably missing as I doubt Messi and Dante watch United vs Sunderland on a regular basis.
Yeah I'm fine now though Ange.
Actually, it's a part of his game which is quite amazing; how he can take the ball down on his chest and control it while other players think it's a heading duel - it's insane. Too bad about the other stuff.
Rooney is world class, I dont know whats to see here?
It doesnt mean he does everything perfectly or doesn't have annoying parts of his game like having a hard on for chucking the ball out to the right all the time. But he consistently gets goals and sets them up for teammates each season. There are always a couple or a handful of strikers that look better than him as a box striker each season, but rarely ones who also set up teammates like Rooney does.
It doesnt mean he does everything perfectly or doesn't have annoying parts of his game like having a hard on for chucking the ball out to the right all the time. But he consistently gets goals and sets them up for teammates each season. There are always a couple or a handful of strikers that look better than him as a box striker each season, but rarely ones who also set up teammates like Rooney does.
As a striker he's easily world class. He's very consistent in that position too. As a #10 he's a top class player IMO, his consistency kind of goes to shit there and he feels like he has to do everything and so his touch becomes inconsistent and has the really shit games on occasion.
No question about as a striker though, when he plays up there consistently he's one of the top 5 strikers in the world for me.
No question about as a striker though, when he plays up there consistently he's one of the top 5 strikers in the world for me.
Just because he wont get into a World XI means he aint world class? You can only have 11 world class players then. One in each position? Really?
Great post. It's funny to me that both seasons in which Rooney was played as No. 9 in he had a fantastic goal scoring record, but he is punished in a lot of people's memories, because he hasn't been consistently used in that position over the course of his career in order to accomodate other great, but less positionally flexible players. In 09-10 Rooney scored 34 goals in 44 appearances and in 11-12 he managed 34 goals in 43 appearances. In both of those seasons Rooney scored 5 in 7 CL appearances. He isn't a great No. 10 on the level of Kagawa and Mata, but he was good enough to start in that position regularly last season for a team which won the league title handily. He is certainly in that top bracket players as a No. 9, but has not often enough played in that position.
World class first touch and technique and all of that sort are great, but delivering in big games and ultimately end product are for me more important than some of the aesthetic qualities in which other players trump Rooney. RVP is a great player who may have better technique, dribbling, close control, volleys, etc. He also fluffed an absolute sitter at the Bernabeu which most United supporters seem to want to brush under the rug because of the other tremendous things he did throughout the game. If Rooney had missed such a chance I don't think that would be the case and I think it would constantly be used against him to remind us how he cost a Champions League tie.
In fact I think in that regard Van Persie consistently misses more clear cut chances than Rooney ever has, but because he more frequently scores goals of brilliance this gets glossed over. I hate doing this too where I feel like I need to cut down another player in the squad to prove Rooney's worth, but if RVP is a "world class striker" than for me Rooney can be put in the same bracket although their games are different and they have different strengths. Rooney's work rate defensively over the course of his career has consistently been 2-3 levels above what other world class attackers generally give on that end.
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He's probably not selfish enough to be world class by your standard definition, Rooney is an incredible team player.
People need to stop saying this. That entire sentence is contradictory.
Was thinking about this interminable "what is world class" debate the other day and have come up with a new proposal. @peterstorey floated the idea of being a member of a world XI that takes on Mars but, like you say, only allowing one player in each position is crazy. So how about this?
Look at the top two teams from the end of last season in each of the major leagues in Europe. Would player X make the starting XI from at least one of the two best teams in every league? If the answer is "yes" then bingo, he's world class.
I reckon that's a goer...
Why? He's top class here, not quite world class because more often then not he still produces the goods. What other #10 gets you as many goals as he does, or can make the impact he does in games? He usually plays really well but has the odd shit game, or bad run of form. During that bad run, his touch and everything just makes him look shit. Ergo, he's not world class there, but the level below.
That's still limiting the amount you can have. There's clearly more then 4 world class central midfielders around, but is there even 4 world class fullbacks and center backs? The best option is to just not put a number on it, but just have a certain amount of players for each position who just clearly have the special quality that you can tell they are world class players. The players whose team turn to when they really need to produce something, and more often then not, they do.
I think you've misunderstood my proposal. I'm sure there's a lot more than 4 CMs who could slot into at least one of the best two XIs in every league in Europe. There's no restriction on numbers here, just on quality. That's the beauty of it.
Ah, yeah I get it now. Pretty good way to put it then.
My only concern is whether or not Rooney passes the test 
Enough with these infernal puns!
He's always been world class in his own way to me.
I think he is world class as a number 9, not world class as a number 10.
My only concern is whether or not Rooney passes the test
England:
City and, sigh, Liverpool: Currently, he would get into City's team ahead of Negredo or Dzeko. I wouldn't play him ahead of Sturridge and Suarez, mainly because of their partnership, not because Rooney isn't better than Sturridge.
Barcelona: No
Real Madrid: I would have him ahead of Benzema
PSG: Not sure - I would, currently, rather have Ibra and I'm not convinced Rooney is better than Cavani - anyone who watches them regularly?
Bayern: I think he would fit like a glove with the hard work ethic of Mandzukic and the prolific goal scoaring of the upcoming Lewa.
So yeah, following your logic, as a striker he wouldn't do too bad... (I would probably insert RVP as a yes for Barca btw and play Messi slightly to the right)
Doesn't need to make all the top two teams. Just one from each league. So I reckon he's a shoe-in.
I might be setting the bar a bit low though. I'm making this up as I go along, to be fair!
If we use Madrid/Barca/bayern as the best teams in the world, then he'd get in as a striker comfortably IMO. He's as good as rvp there IMO, and only Suarez and ibrahimovic are clearly better. Lewandowski, Rooney, rvp, aguero I'd all have on a similar level, all world class though.My only concern is whether or not Rooney passes the test
He would make it pretty much anyhow I think. It's a nice proposition for defining world class! DDG would be labelled world class, I think!
Btw: Since you take a footballer's word over any supporter's: how about Rooney wanting the pace of Valencia? Does that mean that he agrees that he lacks that from his game.
"There's a lot of players with more skill than I have, but most of all I'd love to have the pace of Antonio Valencia."
He would make it pretty much anyhow I think. It's a nice proposition for defining world class! DDG would be labelled world class, I think!
Btw: Since you take a footballer's word over any supporter's: how about Rooney wanting the pace of Valencia? Does that mean that he agrees that he lacks that from his game.
"There's a lot of players with more skill than I have, but most of all I'd love to have the pace of Antonio Valencia."
Going back to those stats from Marca, they have Valencia down as the fastest player in the world so you can see why Rooney might fancy a bit of that!
Of all the skills and attributes, he would rather have that when he is one of the top ten players in Europe? Do you think Walcott wishes he had the pace of Valencia? I think even you agree that Rooney isn't in that bracket in terms of pace; Rooney more or less says he isn't. What Rooney does have though, is the ability to catch the defenders a bit off guard, which may leave him with a couple of yards, but there's a reason it was Welbeck who was given the task to stretch Bayern and run in behind the defense. Is Dante fast btw?
BTW: Why are there no defenders on that list?
Varane is faster than Messi. Alba is faster than Robben and Abate is faster than Alba...
For me when on form rooney is world class, although I don't think he has made the most of his talent. I struggle to think of him ever having two world class seasons in a row. His two best seasons were 09/10 and 11/12, but he should be playing at that level every year.
Rooney trains with Valencia every day. He'll be watching Valencia leave defenders for dead and will obviously wish he could turn on the after-burners like that if he could. This doesn't mean Rooney is slow himself. It's all relative. If Dante says Rooney is quick I've no doubt he's quick. The stats I posted back that up. Would Rooney be a more dangerous player if he was as rapid as the real fliers like Ronaldo, Bale and Valencia? Of course he would. A lot more dangerous. It would certainly make a bigger difference to his game than having a more consistent first touch or whatever else he might wish for. So you can see why he's a little jealous of them in that regard.
I dante think so.
Is there even a real source behind those numbers? Every secondary source says "according to FIFA statistics" and there's absolutely nothing from the FIFA site that supports this graphic.A good example of same being your certainty that he's lost all his pace. He's actually quicker than both of Bayern's wingere. Something Dante will have noticed, even if you can't.
The statistics obviously come from FIFA.
I've no idea whether or not FIFA publish all of the statistics they release to the media on their website. I doubt it though.
So isnt that basically saying that to be world class you have to be good enough to get into the second best team in the weakest big league in Europe? So, for now, basically you are world class if you are good enough to play for Monaco?
I still like the Easrth Vs Mars definition TBH but I think people are a bit too literal minded about it. Its not that there are literally only 11 players on the planet who can be world class at any one time, because that implies there is always total agreement about who would get into the Earth XI. For me it is more about the quality implied by that team. In truth there would be dozens of players in contention for such a squad and anyone who is even being seriously considered for it is World Class. I work on the assumption that you get a lot of injuries in intergalactic football, perhaps as a result of space suits, zero gravity, excessively rocky terrain or radiation poisoning, and as such there is a reliance on large squads.
No, not at all. You need to get into the second best team in every big league in Europe.
Might not always be the second best team either. Depends on the position you play and the relative strengths of top teams in different areas of their squad.Some players might find they get into the XI of the best team in a given league but not the second best team.
I did consider the squad concept for the Earth vs Mars theory but you're always limited by a finite number. How many keepers in your squad? How many strikers? What I like about my theory is that it's a little more forgiving on numbers but still restricted to very very good footballers only.
He has far too many games in a season where his touch is abysmal, his passing worse and attitude even more so to warrant being called World Class.
You can predict when those games are going to happen and in reality he should be taken off as well because he's next to useless but never does because he's Wayne Rooney.
You can predict when those games are going to happen and in reality he should be taken off as well because he's next to useless but never does because he's Wayne Rooney.
Fair enough. Sounds a bit too complicated for me though, I think Ill just continue avoiding using the term as far as possible.
He can be world class as long as he wants, but I(and I am sure Dante too) would pick easily five strikers ahead of him in my dream team, and I would pick easily 3 players ahead of him to play off the striker(or I would simply play 3 in midfield before choosing him to be my number 10, so that would be even more than 3 options ahead of him), and we are talking about his best positions.
Can't remember when is the last time he actually had excellent game against top team in CL, or even in premierleague(and trying more than your teammates doesn't actually counts as having great performance). In our last game against Bayern he was one of our worst players on the pitch, and that was when we had some players actually playing well. Welbeck(Player I rate very high, but also player many here don't think is good enough to play for us) was few classes above him in 3 out of our 3 last games against top opponents in CL.
Can't remember when is the last time he actually had excellent game against top team in CL, or even in premierleague(and trying more than your teammates doesn't actually counts as having great performance). In our last game against Bayern he was one of our worst players on the pitch, and that was when we had some players actually playing well. Welbeck(Player I rate very high, but also player many here don't think is good enough to play for us) was few classes above him in 3 out of our 3 last games against top opponents in CL.
In a theoretical world where you talk about how good he is at various things you need to be good at on a football field he's world class.
But in terms of actually putting that into practice in real life games of football he's not consistently played like a world class player across a full season in years.
But in terms of actually putting that into practice in real life games of football he's not consistently played like a world class player across a full season in years.
Then your memory must be absolutely fecking diabolical.