1. Without a shadow of a doubt.
A good example of same being your certainty that he's lost all his pace. He's actually quicker than both of Bayern's wingere. Something Dante will have noticed, even if you can't.
Dante: Rooney is world class
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1. Without a shadow of a doubt.
A good example of same being your certainty that he's lost all his pace. He's actually quicker than both of Bayern's wingere. Something Dante will have noticed, even if you can't.
Is that apart from the time that his fellow 50000 professional footballers from around the World voted him into the FIFA/Fifpro official World Team of the Year?
I remember seeing him in Messi's world X1 and Schevshenko's. I remember a foreign coach (can't remember who) praising him not long ago for 'understanding what is required of him in every phase of play', which is something that 99% of posters on here do not understand.
He is pretty good.
He is world class, if you ever see United live you will know this. He is usually head and shoulders above the rest in touch, technique and all around presence. It's difficult to always notice this on the telly. His reputation and assessment as such by other players is testament to this. Pace? He doesn't have it, neither did Cantona, Sheringham, Larsson and they are in the same class as Rooney.
1. Without a shadow of a doubt.
A good example of same being your certainty that he's lost all his pace. He's actually quicker than both of Bayern's wingere. Something Dante will have noticed, even if you can't.
Yes, I love stats too. Do you honestly think that Messi only has 0,2 km/h less top speed than Walcott? I know you don't as Varane owned Messi on longer runs twice. Rooney isn't slow, but he's not THAT fast - do you think he's faster than Welbeck or Hernandez? Rooney gave up keeping up with Richardsson for crying out loud, a player whom Januzaj kept up with whilst carrying the ball.
You may well argue the first, but don't delude yourself to thinking that Rooney would outrun Robben, certainly not on the first few yards, which is what Dante said.
His touch and technique is sometimes world class, other times it's the touch of a rapist. It doesn't matter if you go to games or watch on the TV, he still does this far too often to be a world class player. He's the only so called "world class player" that on his off days cannot even control the football.
What's at its heart is a fundamental inferiority complex. Rooney has been the most consistent player over the longest time at the most successful period of arguably one of England's most successful (league vs European cup win merits side) team England has produced.
I think there's something interesting in those who seek to dismiss that as "not as good as..." If Rooney isn't a top drawer player, what does it say about the club over the years? Second rate or is it just a case of people getting erect over foreigners again.
I think there's something interesting in those who seek to dismiss that as "not as good as..." If Rooney isn't a top drawer player, what does it say about the club over the years? Second rate or is it just a case of people getting erect over foreigners again.
Would you really rate Rooney's first touch and technique above RVP, Mata and Kagawa? Like seriously?
It's every bit as good.Look at the goals he's made and scored. It's fatuous to suggest otherwise
What exactly is World Class anyway? It's pretty easy to name four or five players we could universally agree are the top players in the world, but once you get beyond those players, it's very subjective, and for me you stop using the term world class.
Either way, once you are out on the field you still have to do the business, and a label of "world class player" isn't going to do it for you.
As for Dante, he is being respectful, knowing that Rooney is our biggest threat to score or create a goal.
Either way, once you are out on the field you still have to do the business, and a label of "world class player" isn't going to do it for you.
As for Dante, he is being respectful, knowing that Rooney is our biggest threat to score or create a goal.
You can take or leave the stats but Dante's played with/against both of them. If he thinks Rooney is quick, then Rooney is quick. I'll certainly put his opinion way ahead of yours on this issue.
These debates are tedious now.
He's a cracking player when he performs but for the most part of his career he's been less consistent than many other top class players which is why he's often regarded as a level below. I don't think it's a problem, he's not the absolute best but he's not lacking in talent either is he?
Developing into such a good player at such a young age probably gives the impression that he hasn't developed as people expected...but I think that's just people forgetting how good he was in his teens. Look at Januzaj, I think he'll be a world recognised top talent in the future but at his age, Rooney was lighting up international tournaments.
He's a cracking player when he performs but for the most part of his career he's been less consistent than many other top class players which is why he's often regarded as a level below. I don't think it's a problem, he's not the absolute best but he's not lacking in talent either is he?
Developing into such a good player at such a young age probably gives the impression that he hasn't developed as people expected...but I think that's just people forgetting how good he was in his teens. Look at Januzaj, I think he'll be a world recognised top talent in the future but at his age, Rooney was lighting up international tournaments.
Well, almost every post in the thread is discussing whether Rooney is world class or not.
As to how others judge him - again he was just responding to a situation in a sportsman like way. Most players do that, whether the opposition is truly amongst the best or they're just a good player who's also famous. When someone says Rooney isn't world class, then I'll be interesting. Unless its Joey Barton.
A lot of your posts in the last few hours seem to have come from someone with the mental age of 2, have you been in accident of late?
It's not, really. A lot of people, me included, criticise him for losing the ball too easily, misplacing a simple two yard pass, miscontrolling a simple pass and so on. Sixpence said it fine; his first touch is far too inconsistent. RVP, Kagawa, Mata all receive the ball with much more consistency, passes the ball better (short passes) and Mata and RVP have much better technique - look at RVP's goals - it's silly to suggest otherwise
It's almost as though strikers are judged on more than first touch alone. Dimitar Berbatov has the best first touch I've ever seen.
I always get the feeling that us United fans under rate Rooney a lot of the time. We have such high expectations of what he should be doing, and add to that plenty of people not liking him as a person due to the contract stuff, there are plenty that talk him down. While he isn't the best striker in the world, he is clearly a world class player and would be a major asset to basically every team.
To me, the definition of world class is that, if Earth were to play Mars in a football game, would the player look out of place if they were to play in that game as part of the Earth XI? For sure, a little downgrade is possible (eg. Ibrahimovic playing instead of an injured Ronaldo, a clear downgrade but Ibrahimovic is still considered world class, as he'll be on the level of his fellow midfielders and defenders).
I'd say Rooney has been world class in spurts through-out his career, but not consistently so.
Pre 2007, no. - big talent, not proven.
07/08 & 08/09, no. - Not world class, but probably in the 3rd tier of great players. Tiers 1 (just Messi and Ronaldo) and 2 (the other world class players) being world class.
09/10, yes. - World class throughout the season, until his injury. Surely this cannot be debated? His overall play wasn't great, but he showed how good a #9 he really is that year. He was also great in Europe.
10/11, 50%. - Horrendous until January, absolutely world class in the second half of the season. Playing in the hole behind Hernandez, I think he played the best he's ever played in a red shirt.
11/12, no. - A similar season to 09/10 in that he was great playing up-front, but I wouldn't say he was world class. Very close, but several forwards (Ibra, Cavani, Falcao, Ronaldo, Messi) were more than a level above him.
12/13, no. - Seemed very disinterested at times, and personified inconsistency. Nowhere near world class.
13/14, undecided. - He has been there, or around there, for a while now. He's been excellent in my view, and our best player after De Gea this season. We'll see how he finishes the season.
Edit: Just my opinion, feel free to disagree. I'd say overall, he's had a pretty world class career (a mix of success and great performances), but he won't be remembered in the bracket of players who were truly Earth XI material. He's never truly hit the heights (for a sustained period of time) of Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Shevchenko, Ibrahimovic, etc.
I'd say Rooney has been world class in spurts through-out his career, but not consistently so.
Pre 2007, no. - big talent, not proven.
07/08 & 08/09, no. - Not world class, but probably in the 3rd tier of great players. Tiers 1 (just Messi and Ronaldo) and 2 (the other world class players) being world class.
09/10, yes. - World class throughout the season, until his injury. Surely this cannot be debated? His overall play wasn't great, but he showed how good a #9 he really is that year. He was also great in Europe.
10/11, 50%. - Horrendous until January, absolutely world class in the second half of the season. Playing in the hole behind Hernandez, I think he played the best he's ever played in a red shirt.
11/12, no. - A similar season to 09/10 in that he was great playing up-front, but I wouldn't say he was world class. Very close, but several forwards (Ibra, Cavani, Falcao, Ronaldo, Messi) were more than a level above him.
12/13, no. - Seemed very disinterested at times, and personified inconsistency. Nowhere near world class.
13/14, undecided. - He has been there, or around there, for a while now. He's been excellent in my view, and our best player after De Gea this season. We'll see how he finishes the season.
Edit: Just my opinion, feel free to disagree. I'd say overall, he's had a pretty world class career (a mix of success and great performances), but he won't be remembered in the bracket of players who were truly Earth XI material. He's never truly hit the heights (for a sustained period of time) of Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Shevchenko, Ibrahimovic, etc.
It's not, really. A lot of people, me included, criticise him for losing the ball too easily, misplacing a simple two yard pass, miscontrolling a simple pass and so on. Sixpence said it fine; his first touch is far too inconsistent. RVP, Kagawa, Mata all receive the ball with much more consistency, passes the ball better (short passes) and Mata and RVP have much better technique - look at RVP's goals - it's silly to suggest otherwise
So Mata,Kagawa and RVP never lose the ball?
Rooney is world class.
Messi lauded Rooney's technique; is Rooney on Iniesta's level then? He played with/against both of them.
Do you seriously put Rooney up there with Lennon and Walcott for pace?
In your opinion, is Valencia the fastest footballer? I'm just curious as to how much you put into these stats. As I said, I find stats fun, but I also use my eyes.
Dante played against Rooney twice in 2009/2010. Rooney was a different player back then. Robben, at that time, was outpaced by Evra again and again. Do you think that will happen tomorrow? People change and players change.
So Mata,Kagawa and RVP never lose the ball?
Every player loses the ball - Messi loses the ball more than any other player in La Liga according to some stats. However, RVP and Mata's first touch are far superior, on a consistent basis, than that of Rooney. RVP seldom gives the ball away when receiving it, at least a lot less than Rooney would. His volley technique is also superior. But, we are derailing the discussion now.
Really?
A world class one should have everything to his game. Berba has amazing control but doesn't possess all the other attributes you'd typically associate with a world class striker like consistency of goalscoring in the CL, big game record etc. Rooney gets shown up more when he plays the 10 role, because that requires consistently good tight control in confined spaces and a pretty delicate touch. Pretty much the reason why Mata or Kagawa are better 10's and Rooney always looks best as a lone striker. I always think of a Rooney as a 'power player' like Gerrard, with their best things usually done over long range rather than the short delicate stuff you'd associate with Mata or Kagawa type player.
We heard you first time.
I know, I hate the term.
As for Rooney, he's one of the best out and out strikers in the game. If and when he plays there regularly then his goal return will be monstrous.
Until there is an actual agreed upon definition of what world class is, there is little point even debating it. Rooney is a brilliant player though. Take away the two freaks of modern football and his goal/assist ratio compares with anybodys. I think a lot of United fans have a personal dislike of Rooney and it probably clouds judgement.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277...ar-lionel-messi-gives-the-ball-away-more-than
According to some stats...
Ah. An absolute value stat. A % would be much more useful.
Above? No. On a par? Yes.
This thread really isn't about discussing whether or not Rooney is world class or not. It's about discussing if European players see something different in Rooney than your average Joe supporter? He seems to be very highly regarded in Europe, and they seem to value different parts of the game than what is valued in England. Or, do they have a blurred image of what kind of player Rooney is these days?
Let me refresh your memory:
He's no longer head and shoulders above, but now on par? I think most people would safely say that he's a level below, especially in terms of consistency - he certainly can do the brilliant, but he can be so inconsistent.
They probably don't watch him every week. They probably only see him in the CL and big PL matches, where of course he is generally very good. Never been an issue about Rooney's big games for me, it's one of his best attributes but it's when he can't control the ball against Swansea and the like that bugs me.
Like I said, I will always trust the opinion of footballers over fans.
If you seriously think Rooney has somehow slowed down significantly since 09/10 (he's still only 28 ffs) then that really only endorses my decision.
One issue I take is that whenever he is require to play for England he does poorly (as do the rest of the squad) yet he gets severe scrutiny for it and it causes him a while to kick start his season. It's odd, people are quick to brush him off as a player who isn't world class but then want to hold him in the same regards and same expectations as they would for 'world class' players.
And just an aside regarding his pace, he was definitely far more explosive and threatening running with the ball when he was younger, akin to Ronaldo, we can all pretty much agree on this... But I don't think his pace has depleted as much as some say. He is still fecking rapid, especially when you see him charging up the pitch on the counter. And over the past however many or so years, his average speed is almost always up there. Maybe it's just his movement with the ball that seems slower? I'm not sure.
And just an aside regarding his pace, he was definitely far more explosive and threatening running with the ball when he was younger, akin to Ronaldo, we can all pretty much agree on this... But I don't think his pace has depleted as much as some say. He is still fecking rapid, especially when you see him charging up the pitch on the counter. And over the past however many or so years, his average speed is almost always up there. Maybe it's just his movement with the ball that seems slower? I'm not sure.
It's not that they rate him more highly than English players, it's just it's not really the 'done thing' to laud good English players, especially when they play for United. And usually when they do talk about them it's to nay say and call them out for something. We have a habit of bigging up utter dross like Downing, Walcott, Wright-Phillips etc because we have a massive hard on for pace. Pace is great on FIFA but in the real world and on the European stage where the quality is higher you need special attributes which Rooney has and the top European players and managers covet; Timing, spacial awareness, judging the play, seeing a ball, being a phase ahead of the play in their heads, all that alongside the technical attributes like touch and technique. Oh and also he is a fearless fighter and runs the ball down and loves to get stuck in, a typical 'English' trait as seen by foreigners. So what they see is a combination of Brian Robson and Gazza.
And I'll qualify this by agreeing that yes he has his off periods, but so do all players except probably Ronaldo and Messi but they are complete freaks.
Whats blurred about their image of Rooney? They can clearly see he is the most important player at the biggest club in the Premier League. What are they missing?
He has slowed down considerably, maybe due to his ancle injuries!? That certainly happened to RVP - look at the first six seconds of the video below.
It could very well be that the players who comment on other players don't really watch them all that much.
Bibble. Mata is the only one with a better first touch in my opinion. There, clear.