Dante: Rooney is world class

Rossa

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Dant's comments about Rooney being world class led me to think of two possible scenarios regarding our debated player.

1. He truly is world class, and the players who keep on mentioning him alongside the very best of players see something that a lot of fans, me included, fail to see.

2. The players who comment on him don't know much about him other than his reputation. The thing that led me to this is Dante's comment that he is very quick on the first few yards. Really, he isn't anymore. Rooney was once very quick, not that much slower than Ronaldo really, but sadly he's lost that. Do players and managers who keep mentioning Rooney as world class say that based on reputation or actual ability? Messi once said that Rooney would thrive at Barcelona because of his eminent technique, while many fans slate him for his somewhat average at best technique.

So which is it?
 
Rooney has world class games/moments quite a lot in the CL.

But no way is he consistent enough to be considered a truly world class player.
 
It's strange with Rooney. I know some Barca fans who are a bit deluded and think their team has never done anything wrong. They absolutely love Rooney, in the summer when there were rumours about Rooney leaving United, they preferred him to Bale and Neymar. They like his technique and his all-round game, he would bring something else to them they said and yes, one reason was also that he would get on well with Messi and could link up well with him.

However, we don't have that many world class players and as RvP is injured they (the Bayern players) will of course only talk about Rooney.
 
united_99 said:
It's strange with Rooney. I know some Barca fans who are a bit deluded and think their team has never done anything wrong. They absolutely love Rooney, in the summer when there were rumours about Rooney leaving United, they preferred him to Bale and Neymar. They like his technique and his all-round game, he would bring something else to them they said and yes, one reason was also that he would get on well with Messi and could link up well with him.

However, we don't have that many world class players and as RvP is injured they will of course only talk about Rooney.
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It is strange. The players in Europe seem to really appreciate him as a player. He does, however, bring something different to the table. When he was at his best, world class if you may, he had a work ethic that far surpassed other world class players. Messi and Ronaldo hardly chase the ball into their own defense, do they? But when the same players talk about his pace and technique being superb, I'm thinking they must not have watched him all that much.
 
I always enjoy in these things when people talk about 'world class' as if it's an actual thing.
 
Rossa said:
Dant's comments about Rooney being world class led me to think of two possible scenarios regarding our debated player.

1. He truly is world class, and the players who keep on mentioning him alongside the very best of players see something that a lot of fans, me included, fail to see.

2. The players who comment on him don't know much about him other than his reputation. The thing that led me to this is Dante's comment that he is very quick on the first few yards. Really, he isn't anymore. Rooney was once very quick, not that much slower than Ronaldo really, but sadly he's lost that. Do players and managers who keep mentioning Rooney as world class say that based on reputation or actual ability? Messi once said that Rooney would thrive at Barcelona because of his eminent technique, while many fans slate him for his somewhat average at best technique.

So which is it?
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Fans talk shite a lot of the time (me included), not all of em, not all of the time... Rooney isn't slow, and he doesn't have poor technique. People just like to talk in absolutes on here (and elsewhere). He's either World class, or not fit to lace Ronaldo boots, no inbetween.

Of course footballers are the same but they know a bit more than the average fan so I'm inclined to take their view a bit more seriously than that of... a random poster on the caf called afro (for example).
 
Plugsy said:
I always enjoy in these things when people talk about 'world class' as if it's an actual thing.
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Sure it is:

World Class is the first EP recorded and produced by the LA electro-hop group World Class Wreckin' Cru. It was released in 1985 under the Kru-Cut record label. Songs on the album included "Juice" and "Surgery", which were popular singles on the underground West Coast scene. (tfd.com)
 
Rossa said:
Sure it is:

World Class is the first EP recorded and produced by the LA electro-hop group World Class Wreckin' Cru. It was released in 1985 under the Kru-Cut record label. Songs on the album included "Juice" and "Surgery", which were popular singles on the underground West Coast scene. (tfd.com)
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That's a record label name that was sure of it's own time period.
 
Rooney is an outstanding player who suffers in the eyes of the 'critics' who insist on judging him vs Ronaldo and Messi. Rooney has performed, fairly consistently, at the highest level for the best part of a decade. Is he invincible to dips in form? No. Is he a Harlem Globetrotter player? No. But his record and performance stand up to most.
 
Plugsy said:
That's a record label name that was sure of it's own time period.
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It's the name of an EP - seriously mate, read the thing ;) I just broadened your horizon to extremes not previously known to man.

If, however, there is no such thing as world class in football, what is the term you use to describe the very best in world football?
 
Any club in the world would happily sign Rooney if they could, and he's easily in the top 40 players in the world and one of the best players in the premier league. If that isn't world class than what is.

Rooneys 'problem' is he's somewhat a jack of all trades, he's an excellent player in any position from CM to No.9 and unfortunately he's ended up playing regularly in all of the positions in between, detrimental to England and peoples perceptions of him. People would never put him in a world 11 because theres always someone who has one of those positions nailed down.
 
Plugsy said:
So the rule is there can only ever be 11 world class players at any one time?
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Nope, but that he isn't amongst the best strikers in the world anymore and that he would be hard pressed to fit into teams like:

Bayern
City
Barcelona
Real
Athletico
PSG

And you might even throw in Liverpool on current form. He would play regularly for Chelsea though.
 
Rossa said:
It's the name of an EP - seriously mate, read the thing ;) I just broadened your horizon to extremes not previously known to man.

If, however, there is no such thing as world class in football, what is the term you use to describe the very best in world football?
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"He's alright"

I've no issues with 'world class' as a useful and quick short hand like 'great' or 'outstanding' or 'shit', but I get irritated when people start laying down criteria, as if it's something that you can measure someone against e.g an actual thing.
 
afrocentricity said:
Fans talk shite a lot of the time (me included), not all of em, not all of the time... Rooney isn't slow, and he doesn't have poor technique. People just like to talk in absolutes on here (and elsewhere). He's either World class, or not fit to lace Ronaldo boots, no inbetween.

Of course footballers are the same but they know a bit more than the average fan so I'm inclined to take their view a bit more seriously than that of... a random poster on the caf called afro (for example).
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No, he isn't slow, but nor is RVP - you wouldn't highlight their pace though, would you? Both were quick when they were young. What I meant is that it's odd that Dante should pick pace as one of his arguments, just like Messi picks technique. Sure, he does have good technique, but compared to Barca players, who make Fabregas look mediocre, he is far too inconsistent with his first touch.
 
Rossa said:
It is strange. The players in Europe seem to really appreciate him as a player. He does, however, bring something different to the table. When he was at his best, world class if you may, he had a work ethic that far surpassed other world class players. Messi and Ronaldo hardly chase the ball into their own defense, do they? But when the same players talk about his pace and technique being superb, I'm thinking they must not have watched him all that much.
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Yep. I personally rate Rooney as a player, I wanted us to keep him but at the same time I am one of those who don't want to fulfil his every demand at the expense of RvP or Mata. For me Rooney deserves to be dropped as any other Player for certain games. But I appreciate him as a player and everytime I am at OT, the crowd absolutely loves him. Probably not all 76.000 but if there's a bit of silence and then Rooney does something half decent, the whole atmosphere goes up and the crowd starts singing his name. Last time I was at OT was when be beat Olympiacos and it was the same.

However, I really don't think he could fit well in Barca, he would lose the ball too often. It was the right decision to bench him against a counter attacking team like RM last season in the CL and it worked out brilliantly until the red card. Rooney loses the ball too often, even when not under pressure. I don't know why, but for me his technique is actually good and he shouldn't be loosing possesion that often. Barca are very suspect against counter attacking teams, so I can't understand how ppl think he would fit in there. At RM I could see him, but Barca? Both, Messi and Xavi have said in the past that if Rooney ever becomes available he would be the perfect fit at Barca as he is their type of player and Messi said he would personally ask their president to sign him :confused:
 
Plugsy said:
"He's alright"

I've no issues with 'world class' as a useful and quick short hand like 'great' or 'outstanding' or 'shit', but I get irritated when people start laying down criteria, as if it's something that you can measure someone against e.g an actual thing.
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That's a very fair assessment. This thread really isn't to discuss whether or not Rooney is world class, although I can see that it becomes a necessary byproduct of the discussion. What I meant is that what is his reputation really? When players highlight pace and technique as his assets, the two things that United supporters seem to have a pickle with, him losing pace and his inconsistent first touch, I wonder how often do they watch him play, or are we wrong, and he is as fast as Walcott and as technical as Iniesta?
 
No way world class in the true sense of the word.He's a very good player though.
 
united_99 said:
Yep. I personally rate Rooney as a player, I wanted us to keep him but at the same time I am one of those who don't want to fulfil his every demand at the expense of RvP or Mata. For me Rooney deserves to be dropped as any other Player for certain games. But I appreciate him as a player and everytime I am at OT, the crowd absolutely loves him. Probably not all 76.000 but if there's a bit of silence and then Rooney does something half decent, the whole atmosphere goes up and the crowd starts singing his name. Last time I was at OT was when be beat Olympiacos and it was the same.

However, I really don't think he could fit well in Barca, he would lose the ball too often. It was the right decision to bench him against a counter attacking team like RM last season in the CL and it worked out brilliantly until the red card. Rooney loses the ball too often, even when not under pressure. I don't know why, but for me his technique is actually good and he shouldn't be loosing possesion that often. Barca are very suspect against counter attacking teams, so I can't understand how ppl think he would fit in there. At RM I could see him, but Barca? Both, Messi and Xavi have said in the past that if Rooney ever becomes available he would be the perfect fit at Barca as he is their type of player and Messi said he would personally ask their president to sign him :confused:
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Nothing more to add here. Brilliant post! I too think he would be amazing for Real Madrid. He knows how to counter better than most players, which suit RM much better than Barca, but as you say, he loses the ball quite a lot; with the stupidly fast defense of RM, that's less of a problem than with the pedestrian Barca defense (talking about CBs here).
 
I hate this thing about trying to quantify expressions - "world class", "truly world class", "genuine pace", "top top players" an' all that.

World class simply means he's not the kind of striker that you come across every week. World class might mean the 10 players in the world in one conversation, it might mean the top 20 players in any given position in another. It might just mean that he's an international player for a decent team.

This wasn't a deep analysis of the opposition by Dante. This was just him responding to a question and being kind about the opposition by highlighting a player that is high profile and apparently played well well they met once before.

As for the other question, about how good Rooney is - Based on his whole career I'd rate him in the top half dozen or so strikers that we've had in the Premier League era. Whether that counts as world class, well, who can say.
 
He is world class, but he is in era of the two best players of all time. If he was World class in comparable to Messi and Ronaldo, he would have broken Charlton's record by now.
 
Plugsy said:
So the rule is there can only ever be 11 world class players at any one time?
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You can make the list as long as you like, long enough to include Rooney if it helps you call him world class.

Hell with a long enough list you can even include Fellaini.
 
bishblaize said:
I hate this thing about trying to quantify expressions - "world class", "truly world class", "genuine pace", "top top players" an' all that.

World class simply means he's not the kind of striker that you come across every week. World class might mean the 10 players in the world in one conversation, it might mean the top 20 players in any given position in another. It might just mean that he's an international player for a decent team.

This wasn't a deep analysis of the opposition by Dante. This was just him responding to a question and being kind about the opposition by highlighting a player that is high profile and apparently played well well they met once before.

As for the other question, about how good Rooney is - Based on his whole career I'd rate him in the top half dozen or so strikers that we've had in the Premier League era. Whether that counts as world class, well, who can say.
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The thread isn't about discussing whether or not he is world class or what world class is. It's about discussing why/how European players judge Rooney - do they judge him based on merit and reputation or from actually watching him, or do they simply see something that most of us fail to see? Xavi did say that if Scholes played in Spain, he would be much more highly regarded, so there may be something to that.
 
It amazes me how little some football fans actually know about football
 
The standard is absurd. 'Experts' who think watching La Liga occasionally and stating the bleeding obvious constitutes an informed opinion, seem to judge him against the impossible standard. If you leave out the opinion that states suddenly to be at the top of your game you have to perform every week without fail and score 50 goals a season to raise an eyebrow, Rooney is right up there with anyone (else) that would come to mind.
 
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