Danny Welbeck to Hull for £10m?

[RedSky]

The overrating is very, very funny. The fact is that Welbeck would not be missed if sold. ¨

To claim that he would be the best player at Spurs and that teams all over Europe would like to buy him etc. is just mental.

I disagree. We've missed him since his pre season injury and we've looked half the team upfront since we replaced him with Hernandez. Welbeck proved last season that when he's played upfront he produces assists and goals. I'd actually play him ahead of RVP in his current form.

Too many fans are under rating Welbeck based on his appearances as a wide forward (which is not his best position). Welbecks a very, very good striker and will show that this season.

 

[Amar__]

Vertonghen, Lloris, Eriksen.

Lloris is a keeper so no, you can't really compare him with striker, and anyway he isn't better player than Welbeck, but from the lot you named he stands out as the only one who could be worth as Welbeck.

Verthonghen is average defender who makes mistakes quite often and wouldn't get into United side when everybody is fit(and Welbeck is better player than our defenders) and is yet to have good season in the premierleague, and was dropped for Vermaelen in Belgium team but for some unknown reason some people rate him. His pace maybe?

Eriksen, even though I quite like him, showed nothing to suggest he is better player than Welbeck yet. Good first season and that's about it, even if you compare them in things Welbeck is most criticised for - stats, last season their stats were pretty much identical, and Welbeck was dropped for van Persie and Rooney whenever they were fit even though he was much better performer than them at times last season, and still had more than decent stats, and his performances in big games are something else, while Eriksen turned out to be pretty much your first name on team sheet/was given opportunity and still didn't have better season than Welbeck. That doesn't mean he is poor player because he is exciting player but still his highest level is far from Welbeck's IMO, even Liverpool didn't want him for 12ish million pounds.

 

[Eriksen]

Lloris is a keeper so no, you can't really compare him with striker, and anyway he isn't better player than Welbeck, but from the lot you named he stands out as the only one who could be worth as Welbeck.

Verthonghen is average defender who makes mistakes quite often and wouldn't get into United side when everybody is fit(and Welbeck is better player than our defenders) and is yet to have good season in the premierleague, and was dropped for Vermaelen in Belgium team but for some unknown reason some people rate him. His pace maybe?

Eriksen, even though I quite like him, showed nothing to suggest he is better player than Welbeck yet. Good first season and that's about it, even if you compare them in things Welbeck is most criticised for - stats, last season their stats were pretty much identical, and Welbeck was dropped for van Persie and Rooney whenever they were fit even though he was much better performer than them at times last season, and still had more than decent stats, and his performances in big games are something else, while Eriksen turned out to be pretty much your first name on team sheet/was given opportunity and still didn't have better season than Welbeck. That doesn't mean he is poor player because he is exciting player but still his highest level is far from Welbeck's IMO, even Liverpool didn't want him for 12ish million pounds.

I'm not even going to bother with any of this. My god.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Vertonghen, Lloris, Eriksen, Sandro. There are plenty of others too that had a poor season but have had better careers/are more talented than Welbeck. Lamela from the wing had a goalscoring season Welbeck would be very proud of indeed.

You also said "easily". I mean how ridiculous can you get? Do you genuinely believe Welbeck is "easily" a better player than anyone we have at Spurs? Seriously?

All those four have proven more competent in their roles than Welbeck is in his. We have guys like Soldado as well who is a far more proven striker than Welbeck but had a very poor year. He's had goal scoring seasons Welbeck has wet dreams about.

Of course Soldado is more proven. He's got 6 years on him.

 

[Eriksen]

Of course Soldado is more proven. He's got 6 years on him.

I will go ahead and say that Welbeck will never score as many goals in one league season as Soldado did in the Liga BBVA. Just not prolific enough.

 

[RedSky]

tbf Eriksen you said yourself that he needs to score more goals. Yet if you look at the games when Welbeck started in his best position (upfront) you'll see that he actually did very well last season. It's not his fault he got shunted out of position by David Moyes and the clowns managing England. I said it during the World Cup that it'd be better for England if Danny was used as a sub and took off Sturridge if he was going to play upfront.

It's a bit like playing Eriksen on the wing last season, as soon as he got shifted in his natural position in the middle he performed significantly better.

LvG will play Welbeck as a striker this season and imo will use him significantly more than Moyes (who was a total idiot for dropping him in January when Welbeck put in some terrific performances as a striker).

 

[Mali_Zeus]

What Hull, what the hell, no way we should sell him. As much as I like Chicharito Hull can have him and even he is too good for them.

And I'm always amused seeing Spurs fans giving us a lesson.

Welbeck isnt scoring enough? Sure, but majority of the time he isnt playing in a striker position.

 

[Dante]

Welbeck is better than both Kevin Davies and Soldado.

 

[Borys]

Why?

Whenever he plays, we defend from the front and stop the opposition from launching as many attacks (see the Madrid games). And whenever he plays, he creates space for his teammates to get into goalscoring positions and score themselves. Basically, he does all the dirty work on his own so that everyone else can concentrate on taking the glory.

He also contributes a huge amount to our general play and forces defenders onto their back foot with his pace and strength. We're not talking about an Emile Heskey or Andy Carrol type player who only acts as a glorified battering ram... Welbeck had the highest pass completion of any striker last season (or at least he did when I last checked). He's constantly involved in the play and contributes to every area of the side, whether directly or indirectly. Mark Hughes was never prolific either, fwiw. Welbeck would be scoring 20+ if you were to extrapolate a season full of starts as a centre forward. I dare say his striking partner would probably score an extra 7 or 8 goals too. Probably the midfield and wingers as well.

Yep, he is one of those players who are every manager dream. He contributes so much to general build-up play, is good in possession, useful in counter attacking etc.

I stated many times that he will be very important player this season, his movement as second striker is crucial in this system we’re using. We’ve seen what happens when we have two similar players up top (similar movement) in Rooney and Hernandez. Not sure how it will work with Roo&RVP but still, Welbeck will get games I’m sure.

 

[lem8sh]

Would be uproar if sold, then he'd be forgotten about pretty quickly.

 

[Eriksen]

tbf Eriksen you said yourself that he needs to score more goals. Yet if you look at the games when Welbeck started in his best position (upfront) you'll see that he actually did very well last season. It's not his fault he got shunted out of position by David Moyes and the clowns managing England. I said it during the World Cup that it'd be better for England if Danny was used as a sub and took off Sturridge if he was going to play upfront.

It's a bit like playing Eriksen on the wing last season, as soon as he got shifted in his natural position in the middle he performed significantly better.

LvG will play Welbeck as a striker this season and imo will use him significantly more than Moyes (who was a total idiot for dropping him in January when Welbeck put in some terrific performances as a striker).

He's actually pretty decent on the wing, had a couple of really good games for us out wide.

He did well, he's not a bad player. He's extremely wasteful though and really needs to improve that. I don't dislike him as a player, would I be happy if Spurs were to sign him for example? Absolutely, I'd be delighted.

He's physically very good and works very hard. Has an extremely inconsistent first touch and obviously his composure needs to be worked on. If he went for Hull for say a season, had a good scoring year and went to a club like Arsenal, would that be a bad thing? He needs a season as a guaranteed starter at striker.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Verthonghen is average defender who makes mistakes quite often and wouldn't get into United side when everybody is fit.

Disagree. Jan would walk into our defence, regardless of being imperfect.

 

[matherto]

Care to name at least 3 players who are better than him?

Assuming everyone including Welbeck is fit and on top form.

Lloris - One of the world's best goalkeepers
Vertonghen - One of the world's best centre backs
Soldado - Scored at least 20 goals a season for the previous four years before he signed for Spurs. Welbeck will never score 20 goals in a season.
Adebayor - Again, on top form he's brilliant. Capable of scoring 20 goals+ if fit and on form.
Lamela - More impressive for Roma at his best than Welbeck has ever been for us. Will have a good year this year I think.
Eriksen - Same as Lamela. Very talented and capable of showing more. Did well last season given how shit everyone else was.
Sandro - A very good player if not injured.
Dembele - More impressive at Fulham than Welbeck has ever been for us.

Debateables are people like Lennon who a few years back seemed to provide every assist for Defoe, Crouch and whoever else to score. Granted he's usually incredibly frustrating unless he played against Evra and suddenly became the English Messi but his end product was nowhere near as bad as people say when he was on top form.

People need to face it. If he wasn't a Manchester lad who'd come through our academy, Welbeck would be nowhere near a top team. He may eventually turn out to be better than Hull but until he proves himself capable of leading the line up front then everyone but United fans will deride him as being crap.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I will go ahead and say that Welbeck will never score as many goals in one league season as Soldado did in the Liga BBVA. Just not prolific enough.

Different kinds of strikers though. Soldado is a penalty box player, and when performing, is an excellent poacher. Welbeck is a different animal. He's all about link up play and physicality. He's one of the best around at defending from the front as well. I can't remember seeing a forward win the ball in the final third as often as Danny does. He'll grab a few goals, but I don't ever see Welbeck being a 25+ a season player. It doesn't mean he's not very good at what he does though.

He's also only 23, so he has plenty of time to develop moreso.

 

[Sir A1ex]

People who don't think Welbeck can add the goals to his game are deluded. He'll never be an out and out goal machine, but so many forwards in his mould show all the other attributes first, before adding the goals.
Given regular starts at a top club he's easily got 20 a season in him.
He's shown he can do it in spells, and for England.

 

[Eriksen]

Different kinds of strikers though. Soldado is a penalty box player, and when performing, is an excellent poacher. Welbeck is a different animal. He's all about link up play and physicality. He's one of the best around at defending from the front as well. I can't remember seeing a forward win the ball in the final third as often as Danny does. He'll grab a few goals, but I don't ever see Welbeck being a 25+ a season player. It doesn't mean he's not very good at what he does though.

He's also only 23, so he has plenty of time to develop moreso.

I agree and I hope he develops well, I want him to be at a high level for England.

 

[ZDwyr]

Are they though? His level as it currently stands is probably a mid table team, so just above Hull's level. No top four side is going to make him their starting striker and the likes of Everton even have superior players like Lukaku.

I think he will be displacing Rooney/RvP by the end of the season. He's good enough to play for a top club.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If we sold Danny and kept Javier Hernandez I would be disgusted. Danny offers far more than Chich and was great on tour. Chich seems to have even lost a bit of pace since getting all these injuries.

 

[ghagua]

I will go ahead and say that Welbeck will never score as many goals in one league season as Soldado did in the Liga BBVA. Just not prolific enough.

You know that Diego Forlan was top scorer in La Liga a couple of times, the same Forlan who could not hit a barn door at United? And what stopped Soldado from scoring at Spurs last season?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think he will be displacing Rooney/RvP by the end of the season. He's good enough to play for a top club.

The way we get injuries we need Danny and I would promote James Wilson. LvG seems to want to play with 2 strikers so both Danny and James would get games.

 

[Dante]

Yep, he is one of those players who are every manager dream. He contributes so much to general build-up play, is good in possession, useful in counter attacking etc.

I stated many times that he will be very important player this season, his movement as second striker is crucial in this system we’re using. We’ve seen what happens when we have two similar players up top (similar movement) in Rooney and Hernandez. Not sure how it will work with Roo&RVP but still, Welbeck will get games I’m sure.

The point about movement is a very good one.

It's not actually particularly important that Welbeck gets himself into a goalscoring position as long as somebody gets themselves into a goalscoring position.

Put it this way: Yorke and Cole would take turns between running the channels and getting into the 6 yard area. The work they did did was split about 50-50. But as long as at least one player was in the box whilst the other was dragging away defenders, the team would have a decent chance of scoring.

With Rooney and Welbeck it's different: Welbeck does the dragging about 80% of the time whilst Rooney is usually the one who gets into the box. It's really not that vital that Welbeck be the one on the 'keeper's toes as long as somebody is there when the ball comes into the penalty area. It's a division of labour which makes makes the most of each player's strengths. It would actually be more of a problem if both of them were going into the box at the same time, even though Welbeck's goal stats would look better as a result.

 

[Ferguson]

If we are going to play a 3-5-2, then we need at least three, but probably four strikers. What happens if Rooney or Van Persie get injured? What happens if you need to throw on a sub with a fresh pair of legs?

Hernandez can't link up play like Welbeck can in Van Gaal's system. Hernandez will likely be sold.

Unless United are going to suddenly find a better striker than Welbeck from somewhere else to replace him, then he is going nowhere. As it is the club may be going into the season with only three proven strikers. Not sure what the plans for Wilson are.

Unless the club is going to buy Cavani out of the blue, or play someone out of position, Welbeck will be in the club's plans this season. The transfer kitty is better spent on defenders, midfielders and wingers rather than on replacing Welbeck.

That much is common sense.

With my rose-tinted glasses on I'll add that in my opinion Welbeck is brilliant and going to have a brilliant year under Van Gaal where his pace will be needed to stretch defenses. He will get played in his natural position consistently this year and get plenty goals. He understands the club as well which is something that good managers value (unlike Tottenham fans it seems).

This Hull rumor is just paper nonsense in my opinion.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The point about movement is a very good one.

It's not actually particularly important that Welbeck gets himself into a goalscoring position as long as somebody gets themselves into a goalscoring position.

Put it this way: Yorke and Cole would take turns between running the channels and getting into the 6 yard area. The work they did did was split about 50-50. But as long as at least one player was in the box whilst the other was dragging away defenders, the team would have a decent chance of scoring.

With Rooney and Welbeck it's different: Welbeck does the dragging about 80% of the time whilst Rooney is usually the one who gets into the box. It's really not that vital that Welbeck be the one on the 'keeper's toes as long as somebody is there when the ball comes into the penalty area. It's a division of labour which makes makes the most of each player's strengths. It would actually be more of a problem if both of them were going into the box at the same time, even though Welbeck's goal stats would look better as a result.

That's the whole point isn't it. Hernandez apart from goals offers nothing. Danny had a better goal return last season compared to the previous one. I was listening to Talksport and Dominic Cork even suggested about him going to Liverpool. I promptly switch off.

 

[Eriksen]

You know that Diego Forlan was top scorer in La Liga a couple of times, the same Forlan who could not hit a barn door at United? And what stopped Soldado from scoring at Spurs last season?

Forlan was a very good player. It didn't work out for United, maybe the atmosphere wasn't right for him. Maybe it won't be right for Soldado either, we'll see.

What stopped him? Playing Townsend on the wing who doesn't cross and starving him of any service with no creativity in the side. Not adapting to the league quickly enough, not really fitting the style of play. We'll see next season, I don't have great faith in him doing brilliantly well.

Some players don't work out in the Premier League, Soldado could very well be one of those. Does that make him an inferior striker to Welbeck? Not necessarily, just like Forlan wasn't.

 

[Amar__]

Disagree. Jan would walk into our defence, regardless of being imperfect.

Based on what? That left cb position is left for Evans who is much more proven in PL(and CL) than Verthonghen is and he already had two or three very good seasons in PL unlike Verthonghen who wasn't impressive even for non CL team. Verthonghen might get lot of games due his versatility but as a defender both Smalling and Evans are better, and Jones is better suited for that right CB position because Verthonghen plays on the left, and I would say that he is acutally bit similar to Jones.

I'm not even going to bother with any of this. My god.

That was my initial reaction to your post(or pretty much any of your post regarding Unuted players), but I was drinking my mirning coffee and I was bored.

Assuming everyone including Welbeck is fit and on top form.

Lloris - One of the world's best goalkeepers
Vertonghen - One of the world's best centre backs
Soldado - Scored at least 20 goals a season for the previous four years before he signed for Spurs. Welbeck will never score 20 goals in a season.
Adebayor - Again, on top form he's brilliant. Capable of scoring 20 goals+ if fit and on form.
Lamela - More impressive for Roma at his best than Welbeck has ever been for us. Will have a good year this year I think.
Eriksen - Same as Lamela. Very talented and capable of showing more. Did well last season given how shit everyone else was.
Sandro - A very good player if not injured.
Dembele - More impressive at Fulham than Welbeck has ever been for us.

Debateables are people like Lennon who a few years back seemed to provide every assist for Defoe, Crouch and whoever else to score. Granted he's usually incredibly frustrating unless he played against Evra and suddenly became the English Messi but his end product was nowhere near as bad as people say when he was on top form.

People need to face it. If he wasn't a Manchester lad who'd come through our academy, Welbeck would be nowhere near a top team. He may eventually turn out to be better than Hull but until he proves himself capable of leading the line up front then everyone but United fans will deride him as being crap.

Oh dear God, I am not sure if Spurs most deluded fans would rate the likes of Lennon, Sandro and Dembele ahead of Welbeck, but here we have United fans doing it. Time for me to get the feck out of this thread.

 

[Eriksen]

Based on what? That left cb position is left for Evans who is much more proven in PL(and CL) than Verthonghen is and he already had two or three very good seasons in PL unlike Verthonghen who wasn't impressive even for non CL team. Verthonghen might get lot of games due his versatility but as a defender both Smalling and Evans are better, and Jones is better suited for that right CB position because Verthonghen plays on the left, and I would say that he is acutally bit similar to Jones.



That was my initial reaction to your post(or pretty much any of your post regarding Unuted players), but I was drinking my mirning coffee and I was bored.



Oh dear God, I am not sure if Spurs most deluded fans would rate the likes of Lennon, Sandro and Dembele ahead of Welbeck, but here we have United fans doing it. Time for me to get the feck out of this thread.

 

[Nickosaur]

People need to face it. If he wasn't a Manchester lad who'd come through our academy, Welbeck would be nowhere near a top team. He may eventually turn out to be better than Hull but until he proves himself capable of leading the line up front then everyone but United fans will deride him as being crap.

I know I should probably debate rather than dismiss your post but its been done to death (especially in the previous Welbeck thread last season) and I really can't be bothered. If people still don't rate Welbeck then...sigh.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Why?

Whenever he plays, we defend from the front and stop the opposition from launching as many attacks (see the Madrid games). And whenever he plays, he creates space for his teammates to get into goalscoring positions and score themselves. Basically, he does all the dirty work on his own so that everyone else can concentrate on taking the glory.

He also contributes a huge amount to our general play and forces defenders onto their back foot with his pace and strength. We're not talking about an Emile Heskey or Andy Carrol type player who only acts as a glorified battering ram... Welbeck had the highest pass completion of any striker last season (or at least he did when I last checked). He's constantly involved in the play and contributes to every area of the side, whether directly or indirectly. Mark Hughes was never prolific either, fwiw. Welbeck would be scoring 20+ if you were to extrapolate a season full of starts as a centre forward. I dare say his striking partner would probably score an extra 7 or 8 goals too. Probably the midfield and wingers as well.

Totally agree with you, so I'll quote it.

The thing is, nowadays people just get lazy and look at the stats. For a striker, it's goals = good ; not enough goals = not good. Just watch the game, and you'll see just how valuable Danny is.

I'm extremely surprised at these rumours and really, really hope they're not true.

 

[B20]

Wellbeck could become one of Tottenhams better players, but that is assuming he makes the step up most seem to expect with regular football. In that sense he'd be a good project for spurs.

It's laughable to think he's already better than their best ones. That is just the usual taking his best stuff shown in one game in five and assuming he'll do that and more if only he could get starts up front.

If he were that gifted, you'd think that would have been tried. Last time I checked, van persie missed fair chunks of last season, Rooney was increasingly phased out up front the season before and there was no van persie the season before that. And in all that time he's delivered what can be expected from a top striker for a handful of games in December last year.

 

[Dante]

Because he was injured himself.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Yep but don't let facts get in the way of a Liverpool fan's theories.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Lloris is a keeper so no, you can't really compare him with striker, and anyway he isn't better player than Welbeck, but from the lot you named he stands out as the only one who could be worth as Welbeck.

Verthonghen is average defender who makes mistakes quite often and wouldn't get into United side when everybody is fit(and Welbeck is better player than our defenders) and is yet to have good season in the premierleague, and was dropped for Vermaelen in Belgium team but for some unknown reason some people rate him. His pace maybe?

Eriksen, even though I quite like him, showed nothing to suggest he is better player than Welbeck yet. Good first season and that's about it, even if you compare them in things Welbeck is most criticised for - stats, last season their stats were pretty much identical, and Welbeck was dropped for van Persie and Rooney whenever they were fit even though he was much better performer than them at times last season, and still had more than decent stats, and his performances in big games are something else, while Eriksen turned out to be pretty much your first name on team sheet/was given opportunity and still didn't have better season than Welbeck. That doesn't mean he is poor player because he is exciting player but still his highest level is far from Welbeck's IMO, even Liverpool didn't want him for 12ish million pounds.

This is the problem of the Caf, objectivity.. Which stats are you talking about? Be aware that they are 2 different players.

 

[Amar__]

This is the problem of the Caf, objectivity..

It doesn't have anything to do with objectivity since it's not about underrating Spurs players, I rate Welbeck as one of our best players too. Anyone who can't see that we are much better team when Welbeck plays is the one who has problem, not me.

 

[Eriksen]

It doesn't have anything to do with objectivity since it's not about underrating Spurs players, I rate Welbeck as one of our best players too. Anyone who can't see that we are much better team when Welbeck plays is the one who has problem, not me.

Yes. You totally have not underrated any Spurs players at all in that post.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It doesn't have anything to do with objectivity since it's not about underrating Spurs players, I rate Welbeck as one of our best players too. Anyone who can't see that we are much better team when Welbeck plays is the one who has problem, not me.

Danny is a really good player, hopefully this is just the papers doing a bit of good old shit stirring.

 

[Sammyjunn]

It doesn't have anything to do with objectivity since it's not about underrating Spurs players, I rate Welbeck as one of our best players too. Anyone who can't see that we are much better team when Welbeck plays is the one who has problem, not me.

I think that only in the caf Welbeck is rated higher than Eriksen...He makes our team better not because he is such a good player, but because he works hard for other players Btw better players dont make a better team, so you cant say that because with heam we are a better team, he is a hell of a player.

 

[Eriksen]

Lloris is a keeper so no, you can't really compare him with striker, and anyway he isn't better player than Welbeck, but from the lot you named he stands out as the only one who could be worth as Welbeck.

Verthonghen is average defender who makes mistakes quite often and wouldn't get into United side when everybody is fit(and Welbeck is better player than our defenders) and is yet to have good season in the premierleague, and was dropped for Vermaelen in Belgium team but for some unknown reason some people rate him. His pace maybe?

Eriksen, even though I quite like him, showed nothing to suggest he is better player than Welbeck yet. Good first season and that's about it, even if you compare them in things Welbeck is most criticised for - stats, last season their stats were pretty much identical, and Welbeck was dropped for van Persie and Rooney whenever they were fit even though he was much better performer than them at times last season, and still had more than decent stats, and his performances in big games are something else, while Eriksen turned out to be pretty much your first name on team sheet/was given opportunity and still didn't have better season than Welbeck. That doesn't mean he is poor player because he is exciting player but still his highest level is far from Welbeck's IMO, even Liverpool didn't want him for 12ish million pounds.

Right, here goes. Might as well, not that it'll do any good.


Erm, you said best player. Obviously the two are not comparable, but Lloris is a better goalkeeper by some distance than Welbeck is a striker. He's the French Captain, one of the best goalkeepers in the league and well known throughout Europe. Of course he's better than Welbeck.

"Vertonghen is an average defender" - Stop right there, please. Vertonghen was considered one of Ajax's biggest talents, came to Spurs and in his first season in the Premier League was the best defender in the league and made the team of the season. One poor season based on injuries and playing as left back and he's average? He's a very talented player who at his best is one of the best in the league. For some reason people rate him? He was bloody brilliant in his first season - both going forward and at the back. He probably wasn't far off Welbeck's best goalscoring season in the Prem whilst playing as a CB. He also wasn't "dropped" for Vermaelen for Belgium, he started against Argentina when they were knocked out and was pretty much regularly in the side. He played left back because they lack fullbacks, where he wasn't as effective.



Eriksen came in to this Spurs side at the worst side and was immediately our best player going forward, by an absolute mile, he did not just have a "good" first season, it was very good. Whilst Welbeck didn't always play - Eriksen also wasn't always in the side for a large portion of the season (He became one of the first names later on and suffered from injuries.) He was also played out of position often on the wing and was effective there

Eriksen had 7 goals and 9 assists. Welbeck had 9 goals and 2 assists. So no, they did not have "identical" stats. Eriksen had 2 less goals playing from an attacking midfielder position than Welbeck playing as a striker or at worst a left-winger. He's not meant to pump out goals though, that isn't his job. His job as a CAM is to create and he created 7 more goals than Welbeck, for a team severely lacking in firepower. In his first season in this league, playing in a less advanced position. My arse did he not have a better season than Welbeck.

To compare his stats to other players in his position, David Silva had 1 more assist in a far better side going forward, Ozil had the same assists as him and the likes of Hazard had 7 assists. These sorts of players aren't strikers so aren't expected to produce crazy statistics and the fact they have similar tallies isn't anything to crow about. It's actually pretty damn poor that Welbeck has only 2 more goals than an attacking midfielder new to the league.

 

[SilentWitness]

No bloody way would he go to Hull, he's shown in the Champions League that he is good enough for that level. It's a shame that he has been so underused with United because everytime he looks like he'll get into a rich vein of form he's suddenly not in the side or he is moved back to a wide position (I think he'd be much better there attacking wise for goals in a 4-3-3) or he's injured. Hopefully for him RVP gets injured because he'd probably excel up top in a 3-5-2.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Right, here goes. Might as well, not that it'll do any good.


Erm, you said best player. Obviously the two are not comparable, but Lloris is a better goalkeeper by some distance than Welbeck is a striker. He's the French Captain, one of the best goalkeepers in the league and well known throughout Europe. Of course he's better than Welbeck.

"Vertonghen is an average defender" - Stop right there, please. Vertonghen was considered one of Ajax's biggest talents, came to Spurs and in his first season in the Premier League was the best defender in the league and made the team of the season. One poor season based on injuries and playing as left back and he's average? He's a very talented player who at his best is one of the best in the league. For some reason people rate him? He was bloody brilliant in his first season - both going forward and at the back. He probably wasn't far off Welbeck's best goalscoring season in the Prem whilst playing as a CB. He also wasn't "dropped" for Vermaelen for Belgium, he started against Argentina when they were knocked out and was pretty much regularly in the side. He played left back because they lack fullbacks, where he wasn't as effective.



Eriksen came in to this Spurs side at the worst side and was immediately our best player going forward, by an absolute mile, he did not just have a "good" first season, it was very good. Whilst Welbeck didn't always play - Eriksen also wasn't always in the side for a large portion of the season (He became one of the first names later on and suffered from injuries.) He was also played out of position often on the wing and was effective there

Eriksen had 7 goals and 9 assists. Welbeck had 9 goals and 2 assists. So no, they did not have "identical" stats. Eriksen had 2 less goals playing from an attacking midfielder position than Welbeck playing as a striker or at worst a left-winger. He's not meant to pump out goals though, that isn't his job. His job as a CAM is to create and he created 7 more goals than Welbeck, for a team severely lacking in firepower. In his first season in this league, playing in a less advanced position. My arse did he not have a better season than Welbeck.

To compare his stats to other players in his position, David Silva had 1 more assist in a far better side going forward, Ozil had the same assists as him and the likes of Hazard had 7 assists. These sorts of players aren't strikers so aren't expected to produce crazy statistics and the fact they have similar tallies isn't anything to crow about. It's actually pretty damn poor that Welbeck has only 2 more goals than an attacking midfielder new to the league.

The thing about Danny being dropped when Rooney and RVP were available, that was the problem with Moyes not wanting to upset his big name player, even though he actually managed it anyway. LvG won't give a toss, if Danny is in the side and doing well he will pick him.

 

[Manucho the boss]

Think we should hold onto him until Hernandez's future is resolved. He's a useful squad player for any team with his combination of pace, stamina and ability to win free kicks and penalties from no real contact.

If he was a finisher he could have been a great here. The market for strikers is terrible this Summer, if Long is going for £12m and Borini £14m then we should quote them at least £17m-£20m range.