Because they're idiots.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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Because they're idiots.
Which would be great. A player in the bracket below world class developing alongside world class players like RVP and Rooney. Also the combination play with Cleverley is exciting to watch (and Rooney/Carrick). That kind of combination can really elevate a good player into something special, I'm thinking the Cole/ Yorke partnership circa 99
Was he playing as a striker in those ten games then??
There were quite a few people in this thread during/after the Euro's making the Henry comparison. His tepid start to the season has killed that giddiness, for the time being anyway.
For a few of them yes. In the rest he was playing as a wide forward. Both are positions that you expect goals from. We slagged Dirk Kuyt off for years for being the low scoring defensive forward that Welbeck has resembled at the start of this season.
I believe people were saying 'similar' to Henry in style of play, can't remember one person saying he is going to be as good as him, and if they did they are certainly the minority.
I feel you're being overly critical as has become the fashion. Pour cold water on any bit of hype about our young waters seems to be how to get respect. One or two people mention that he may be like an Henry in the future and it's referred to then as a stick to beat the player with for six months after. Personally I'll let myself get excited and be optimistic about or young players. I think out of the batch now hitting the first team and the next few to come we will have some stars. A kid forward having a run of games when he's not been scoring, especially after playing a lot of those out of position in a team that's been struggling to find form isn't something to worry about, and comparing him to Dirk Kuyt is pretty stupid.
I am not beating the guy with a stick: he is 21; playing for his country; playing for one of the biggest club sides in the world and earning millions a year - fair fecks to the guy!
I have also said that I think that he will become a top player, just not an elite one. When all is said an done, Kuyt isn't that bad either, he just played for a team that we hate. He was also one of those hard working but low scoring forwards that do little to add to the aesthetic of the game.
Is it just me who thinks that Welbeck's a pretty graceful player then? The complete opposite of Kuyt, for me, particularly in terms of their build-up play.
Absolutely agree with what you've said, Irwolf. There's a growing no. of people who can't see any of us getting excited over a homegrown talent.
He is very, very graceful. The fact that he's being compared to Kuyt(who was a decent player but a very ugly in football sense) is pretty idiotic.
Some fans confuse me. He's 21 years old. He's not the finished article yet and he's already pretty fecking good.
Santi Cazorla is graceful, Zinedine Zidane is graceful. If you think that Welbeck is graceful then fair play to you. I must have a different grace threshold to you.
My comparison to Kuyt comes from his performances this season, he has has offered little going forward but has got through a lot of defensive work.
Aesthetically, I think that Welbeck is most akin to Kanu, ungainly with the odd moments of great skill.
I always thought Kanu was graceful too.
In almost every game you'll see a touch from Welbeck that no-one else in the side (bar perhaps Nani) could pull off, I see that as evidence of his grace rather than spectacular, random pieces of skill.
If we're doing comparisons than Kanu is the one that stands out too me and Kanu was very graceful.
I think the problem is long legs. It can make players look pretty clumsy. Just because Welbeck doesn't have a low centre of gravity doesn't mean he can't be graceful.
I miss the time when youngsters were just allowed to develop without any over-analysis and platitudes placed upon them.
It's also sad to see one of the most technically gifted players to have come through our academy being compared to likes of Kuyt just because he has an equally high work rate.
On occasion Kanu was graceful, most of the time he looked like the ball was confusing him and that it might trip him up.
Footballing grace to me is a consistent and excellent first touch, close control and an ease of movement with the ball.
I wouldn't actually call Nani graceful either, skillful and technical yes, but he is very stop start with the ball. Gracefulness, for me, is an ease and fluidity.
Welbeck has some nice flicks, his flicks strangely seem better than his standard passing. I don't feel that he moves freely with the ball, especially in pressure situations, his first touch is also very inconsistent.
The way Welbeck moves the ball is graceful I'd say, the way he moves his body is definitely not. Only one of those things is important though.
See I think Welbeck's movement is very fluid, he glides with the ball. No arguments that his first touch is inconsistent and his passing can be sloppy but he carries the ball very well, he just needs to be more decisive.
I know what you mean about 'gliding' with the ball. When he is running into space he strokes the ball with his foot. I also feel that he works well in tight spaces when required to do intricate one touch passing. For me, however, that does not equate to gracefulness. A term that I reserve for players the ilk of Zidane, Cazorla and Iniesta.
I think the type of player he will become is a technical number nine striker, think RVP, Henry, Villa, Torres etc. Compare Welbeck to these boys and he is well on course, so much so I'd say he's ahead of the development curve expected.
Good comparison. The Kuyt one is terrible though. Welbeck is so much more than just a defensive striker. His build-up play is very easy on the eyes, his off-the-ball movement is excellent, it's just the goals that are missing(for now). Welbeck's work-rate is a big plus, but it's not his primary asset the way Kuyt's is.
True. It can at least give an indication of what a players' abilities are, though. The things that Welbeck was doing then that he isn't yet doing now...it's not solely because of his level of skill or the fact that reserve/academy level was easier - a mental adjustment is necessary.
I'm saying a lot of what Welbeck hasn't got so far in this thread in terms of willingness and expression, but I do think it's worth saying again that I find it perfectly conceivable that he could take a huge leap in his development at some point and surprise people who don't think there's a potential star in him. He is definitely capable of cracking finishes, good dribbling, lovely skill and nice touches.
The attributes are clearly there. Although they are different players and that it isn't the sole determinant of a player's quality, he is probably a more tehnically gifted player than Cleverley, for example. If he ever finds consistency and confidence, he could be really, really good.
feck off with yer talkin sense.
Compare him to some of the best strikers of our generation
Yes, this isn't getting totally ahead of ourselves.
England don't have a great selection of strikers.
Some of the comments Ive read here on him of late are embarrassing. Its like they cant actually see the chap developing. The lad is quality. Plus it means a lot to have a local lad who cares about the club. So many dont these days. But heh lets focus on a couple of misses
Some of the comments Ive read here on him of late are embarrassing. Its like they cant actually see the chap developing. The lad is quality. Plus it means a lot to have a local lad who cares about the club. So many dont these days. But heh lets focus on a couple of misses
It's better than wanking over him and comparing him to some of the best players of our generation. I think he'll be a good squad player but no better. Let's see if I'm proved wrong.
There you go again, someone says graceful so you then feel the need to bring up a player who is one of the best of all time to compare to a 21 year old.. You don't have to be as graceful as the most silky player of all time to be considered so.
Thats a pretty shit response though isnt it? "Ok hes not shit but he not the best in the world"?
Hes 21. My comment was directed at whatever idiot here said he's the worst finisher in the premiership. People should get sent to the day room for shit like that.
Santi Cazorla is one of the greatest of all time? I doubt that you had even heard of him two seasons ago. Zidane is the most graceful player ever, it is entirely natural to use him as an example. Thiago Alcantara then, is that an acceptable example for you? Christ on a bike!
If he reminds me of any player its actually one of our own from the past, Dwight Yorke. I wasn't old enough to really remember him at his peak but from the substantial number of games I've seen yorke in he has the same kind of all round ability as Welbeck will likely have if he carries on developing.
Can do abit of everything well but not the master of any skill, I reckon he will have a similar physique by his mid 20s too and if he turns out close to as good as Yorke was he will be staying here for sure.
Can do abit of everything well but not the master of any skill, I reckon he will have a similar physique by his mid 20s too and if he turns out close to as good as Yorke was he will be staying here for sure.
He reminds me the most of Nwankwo Kanu. But with more natural pace.
I was obviously talking about Zidane.
Thiago is an acceptable example, it makes no sense to judge a 21 year olds ability against two players in their prime, who also play in a completely differend position.
Haven't really seen much of him, ill have to have a looksie.
Wasn't it Fergie who came up with the Kanu comparison three-four years ago?
It was, not sure how long ago. I always thought that Kanu was largely ungainly with occasional flourishes of skill. I feel the same about Welbeck. I do think that Welbeck can be better than Kanu though.
Every time I watch Welbeck its the same feeling. Im always surprised by how good is actual build up play is, his work rate is phenomenal and he always looks like a threat to the other team and a nuisance to defend against. The only problem is that he simply is not clinical but i have no doubt that this will improve,the same as any striker. Hes a fantastic player but a fundamental part of his game is missing but nothing I think is a problem that cant be improved upon. I constantly underrate him and then when he plays he impresses me. He jsut needs that extra bit of composure that would make him a huge asset
Definitely. So far it seems his best attributes are used in order to let others play. In the Newcastle game his work-rate and energy on the left and up top stopped Newcastle from playing at the back and allowed Rooney extra space to work in.
In this respect he's already an important player for us. If (and hopefully when) he improves his finishing, he will become a brilliant player.
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