Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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My opinion - yes, if he's not expecting to play every week. But as a regular in the first team - at the moment, no.
In the long term it depends where the club want to go but I'd like to think that they will look to have the very best players they can get, at least in a number of key positions.
To me its no coincidence that we had success last year with a world class forward up top, nor is it coincidence that the best forwards usually play in very succesful teams.
He may surpsise me and suddenly eradicate the obvious flaws in his game, and if so, that's great news. As Said above, he has a chance now to show what he can do - lets hope he does.
Because it's so rare for a very talented young player to have a moment where it just 'clicks' and they dramatically improve.
Whilst he's not quite kicked on with the goalscoring as we'd all like quite yet, I think we can probably now forget the notion that he 'never scores'. I think last year was an abberation and this year he'll make up for it, but even so, to date, he's started 45 PL matches for Manchester United and scored 15 goals.
He's precisely 1 in 3 at the moment, with probably half of those starts coming up front and half in a more withdrawn role. Barring injuries I have very little doubt he'll go on to be 20 goal a season man when he becomes our permanent number 9, and when you factor in everything else be brings to a team I continue to see no reason to hesitate in suggesting that he'll be a world class footballer.
I just wish other fans would share my excitement.
Edit: 9 goals in 27 cup starts too. That's uncanny.
He's precisely 1 in 3 at the moment, with probably half of those starts coming up front and half in a more withdrawn role. Barring injuries I have very little doubt he'll go on to be 20 goal a season man when he becomes our permanent number 9, and when you factor in everything else be brings to a team I continue to see no reason to hesitate in suggesting that he'll be a world class footballer.
I just wish other fans would share my excitement.
Edit: 9 goals in 27 cup starts too. That's uncanny.
The fact he is doing well for England gives me hope. I was for getting rid of him when he frustrated in several matches where we needed him to step up.
Think Moyes will access him this season and hopefully he will earn his place. Just needs to finish those chances.
Think Moyes will access him this season and hopefully he will earn his place. Just needs to finish those chances.
Why do so many people think his touch is erratic. Its bordering on racism I think, cuz he's black he's only quick strong powerful etc. He's got one of the best techniques in the squad, who has a more reliable first touch than him? Nani and RVP maybe, don't think anyone else, maybe Januzaj.
Not at all. He doesn't shield the ball properly, resulting in him getting outmuscled frequently and he doesn't seem to have it under complete control when he's dribbling with it. His first touch is good, but kagawa, rvp, nani, januzaj, Rooney, Carrick all have a better touch then him. How does he have one of the best techniques in the squad? More often then not he does 3-4 little touches on the ball that look nice but are ultimately pointless, he has a terrible shooting technique, he's a normal passer of the ball, has a good touch but nothing more, isn't a great dribbler or anything. He's good technically, but nothing special.
He'll never be good enough to be a striker for united long term IMO, no shame in that. He's not rvp/Rooney level, and at united, we always play with world class strikers. He'll improve but I can't see him improving his finishing and his off the ball movement so drastically, along with the many other things that need refining. He'll be a good player, maybe a very good player, but not a very good striker capable of scoring 30 goals a season. His level will be more starting for the Europa league placed teams, rather then teams in the champions league IMO.
I think he'll be as good as any of the Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer, Sheringham quartet, if not better.
Saha was never World Class but got the best out of the rest of the team with his movement, link-up play and general physicality up front.
I could see Welbeck doing a similar role for us if he can progress his game.
I could see Welbeck doing a similar role for us if he can progress his game.
Saha was infinitely better than Welbeck though he was made of glass. His composure when faced with a chance was far better than Danny's and yes he was never world class but we didn't need him to be with Ronaldo in the side
Not far better. Louis had a habit of missing tap-ins or 1v1s but then scoring a ridiculous goal.
Like in the game against Wigan, he missed a clear chance (which I can't find a video of) but then did this:
What was his goalscoring ratio to games compared to Welbeck's?
Look I suppose you could hunt high and low on Youtube or whatever to find a striker missing a goal, and I'm not in this to constantly prove how shit Danny is, in fact I'd prefer him to score freely as it would only benefit Utd not some agenda you might think I'm on. However Saha was a much more instinctive finisher and if not for his injuries would have been a spearhead for our attack.
You certainly can't complain about his performance yesterday. Read both situations brilliantly for his goals, and was always pushing for the third as well. As I say, both of his finishes were real poachers goals which isn't something we generally associate with Welbeck. His lack of goals has been a problem to a certain extent looking at things from an individual perspective, so hopefully yesterday will give him the confidence to push on in the absence of Van Persie.
Without the goals though, he has his strengths. He works very hard high up the pitch and is capable of running the channels if needed. Technically he isn't perfect but once again, he has improved.
Without the goals though, he has his strengths. He works very hard high up the pitch and is capable of running the channels if needed. Technically he isn't perfect but once again, he has improved.
Welbeck gets into a lot of goalscoring positions - that is not the problem. The problem is that he is really poor when he gets to those goalscoring positions and that he has to improve. Yes you can say that he would score more as a striker - naturally. But even as an attacking midfielder or a winger, he hasn't posed enough of a threat.
If Welbeck can score those 13-14-15 league goals each season, he will be a United regular because of his overall play and effort. But he needs to get to those numbers
If Welbeck can score those 13-14-15 league goals each season, he will be a United regular because of his overall play and effort. But he needs to get to those numbers
missed a couple too... mind you if he puts one in 3 chances away....
When Saha was Welbeck's age he had just been promoted to the Premier League with Fulham and scored 8 goals in 36 apps. Infinitely better than Danny's 4 in 10 so far.
I think the impressive thing was the desire to get onto the end of the ball for the 2nd goal, often that's something he's lacked that Hernandez has and gets him lot of short range goals.
He didn't miss any chances that you'd expect a striker to score, they were far from easy, but he needs to at least hit the target more and force a save in those situations, sometimes you feel he tries to be a little too precise in finishes.
I have one request, please Danny, cut your ridiculous hair.
It's better than Sterling's at Liverpool. Just about.
I really wish we'd send him out on another loan as it'd be hugely beneficial for him to get frequent games at this stage. I'm not really a fan of his but he's young enough that he definitely could kick on.
I have one request. Danny grow it bigger and weirder
I agree. No shame in it at all, and he can surely have a long career at the club - hopefully as a regular if he can develop further, but if not, he would always get games. The question is whether he's willing to do that as if he's not a regular he my lose his England place to whoever is the inform striker.
As ever some people are levelling the allegation that others think "we should move him on" or "he's not good enough for United" - and as ever, that's taking what are reasonable opinions to the extreme because that's not what people are saying.
I dont think that its unreasonable for fans to want to see the best players at their club, nor to expect the young lads coming through to be of a good enough standard to keep the club where it is - rather than get a game simply because they're local boys made good.
Some people might believe that he's a 25 goal a season striker - and maybe they're right. I just dont see enough evidence of that based on previous perfromances.
As it stands Welbeck represents the issues the club face at the moment. We lack quality overall compared to other sides in the PL and in Europe, on a "man for man" basis. The most worrying thing is that he plays regularly out wide when he's clearly not a winger of sufficient quality.
As long as a players still developing then I don't think they can be too old to gain the benefit of regular games.
Saha had everything as a player to lead the line - other than the ability to stay fit. On his day he he was unplayable, but he also played in a very good side - better than this side in my opinion.
I think a loan would benefit him immensely. It would show whether he has it in him to lead the line for a club over a whole season, and if he can become a proper goalscorer.
My new favourite Cafism is claiming that players who are already regulars for Manchester United will never be good enough to be regulars for Manchester United.
Welbeck's best moments against Aston Villa:
I think your first point is a fair one. As people have pointed out, the main weakness in his game is the finishing aspect of his game. He is at a club who have had a list of 25+ goal scoring centre-forwards over the years, and for all his strengths I don't think he will give you that at this stage. I think he's a good player who has his strengths, but he certainly needs to improve in that respect.
However, as you point out, both goals yesterday was were poachers goals. He worked hard to get into the position and read both situations brilliantly. That's what you want - that instinct in and around the box. He lead the line well yesterday and was constantly looking for the third. It's that hunger for goals that we need to see more of if he is going to succeed long term.
He will have a run of games now as first choice centre-forward, and if he shows the attitude and performance he came up with yesterday, he will do just fine for me.
I love Hernandez, I do but it's scary when Welbeck adds finishing to his performance just how much of a better player he is. He offers everything you want from a striker when he has that finishing touch.
Still needs to improve big time as Hernandez has goals in him but in terms of all-round play, there is no comparing in my opinion.
Still needs to improve big time as Hernandez has goals in him but in terms of all-round play, there is no comparing in my opinion.
I think he'll be at the club long term, whether a star or a squad player remains to be seen.
Why would you want to loan him, after that last performance? wouldn't it be better to build momentum and let him keep his position?
Like mikeupnorth said, he has 'it' in him to be one of the best striker. You can just feel it. With the title has (realistically) gone this season, this is the right time to build something for next season and the future. And Welbeck IS the future.
Against Villa, it was one of the best performance of leading striker you could expect from any 23 y.o. striker nowadays. That pace, skill, intelligent movement, finishing, hold-up strength, link up play. It's just magnificent.
One performance doesn't change how he usually is. He's never going to start up top consistently when we have partnerships like Rooney-Kagawa or Rooney-Rvp, so it'd be best for him to go on loan to a club where he will start up front every game and develop his goalscoring. He hasn't developed at all from 2seasons ago, and has only scored 7 goals for united between the August 2012 and now. He needs to play up front at a club that's more his level right now, like lukaku is. He'll never get enough chances here because he isn't close to Rooney or Rvp.
Let's just disagree, then. I think he'd get more than enough chances here to develop his finishing (his only major weakness), which actually doesn't depend on what position he plays.
I think goals/appearance ratios should be banned in this thread. He's not really played a whole lot as a striker in the last season or two, so it's a bit irrelevant.
Whilst Welbeck has made a hash of a good few chances in the past, I still believe that he'd come good in that sense. One big issue has been that he's not ruthless enough. He doesn't take enough shots or throw himself at chances. The goal at the weekend where he basically took out Januzaj to put it in the net is hopefully a sign of things to come.
As for his finishing, I think he's displayed enough to show that he's perfectly capable of scoring all sorts of goals. His chip for England a few months ago was outstanding technique. Absolutely world class. If he can score goals like that then I don't believe for a second that he won't start putting chances away more frequently in the future.
Whilst Welbeck has made a hash of a good few chances in the past, I still believe that he'd come good in that sense. One big issue has been that he's not ruthless enough. He doesn't take enough shots or throw himself at chances. The goal at the weekend where he basically took out Januzaj to put it in the net is hopefully a sign of things to come.
As for his finishing, I think he's displayed enough to show that he's perfectly capable of scoring all sorts of goals. His chip for England a few months ago was outstanding technique. Absolutely world class. If he can score goals like that then I don't believe for a second that he won't start putting chances away more frequently in the future.
What a ridiculous comment.
Its all about levels. Its not about whether they will be a "regular" per se - its about the level the team aspires to. Players might be regulars, but that doesnt mean they have the quality or the ability to take the side to the next level. That might tell you more about the lack of quality in the sqaud than anything else.
As it stands the fact that Welbeck (as an example) is a regular playing out wide tells you one thing - the wide players we have aren't good enough.
That was an odd post. Saying a white man is slow or is poor in the air is also racism then? People say his touch is erratic because he looks a bit clumsy at times, but he hardly loses the ball. Smalling too looks clumsier than he is. Is it racist to say that Smalling is a poor distributor and rather focus on his pace and strength as his main strengths? Very, very weird argument.
YresBetter again!
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