Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

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Sam said:
I still can't believe some people want to get rid of him :lol:
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I dont see many people on here, if anyone actually saying that.

The criticisms of him has ben legitimate, because his goal return is poor (even if playing outwide isnt his favourite position) and he doesnt pose a threat like a winger should. That's the main issue that most people touch on - that he isnt a wide player by nature, but isnt likely to be first choice upfront either.

Fair play to him yesterday - very good performance at a time when it was needed. He needs to do that week in week out if he's going to have any chance of getting a regular place upfront because that's what top forwards do.

One game, against average opposition doesn't make a season. He has a chance now with RVP out to show his worth. Hopefully he will.
 
His goal return hasn't been good enough even when he played upfront - but he did score now and then (12 or whatever it was two years ago was a decent return for his first full season with us) and you'd hope that the time we give him in that position will help him improve because he's massively talented. Playing on the wing, however, is just a waste for team and player. He's not a winger, he doesn't produce what we need from a winger and he's not going to become one either.

That compromise - we don't have a place for him upfront so we'll put him on the wing so he can still play and improve - hasn't worked because it hasn't allowed him to work on his biggest weakness which is his finishing and composure around the box.
 
Carl said:
Over the course of the season several have suggested we should move him on.
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The general consensus I've seen is that most people dont think he will nail down a regular place and may want to move on for regualr football. Thats not the same as people suggesting he's "moved on".

He's a United lad, works his socks off and has a great attitude - why would anyone want us to sell him? The question is whether he has the quality to be a regular - especially if Moyes spends big in the wide positions which is largerly where he finds himself most of the time.
 
His link-up play and movement is arguably better than anything we've got up front, at least with RvP in this form.

We look much more menacing with his pace and runs in behind.
 
RedRover said:
The general consensus I've seen is that most people dont think he will nail down a regular place and may want to move on for regualr football. Thats not the same as people suggesting he's "moved on".

He's a United lad, works his socks off and has a great attitude - why would anyone want us to sell him? The question is whether he has the quality to be a regular - especially if Moyes spends big in the wide positions which is largerly where he finds himself most of the time.
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Oh it's far from a general consensus that want him to/think he should move on. It's only a few, but even that's a few too many.
 
You can't have a striker playing regularly, scoring 5-6-7 goals each season in a club like United. Welbeck has the qualities to be a United striker but if he doesn't start scoring regularly, within a season or 2, he won't be at United for too long.

I love Welbeck for his skills and effort but he needs to improve a lot in front of goal to ever be a United regular. However - we have seen some positive signs this season
 
lysglimt said:
You can't have a striker playing regularly, scoring 5-6-7 goals each season in a club like United. Welbeck has the qualities to be a United striker but if he doesn't start scoring regularly, within a season or 2, he won't be at United for too long.

I love Welbeck for his skills and effort but he needs to improve a lot in front of goal to ever be a United regular. However - we have seen some positive signs this season
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He'll score goals when played as a striker regularly though. Much more than 5-6-7.
 
If we're going to be playing him then it should be as a striker. Not having him fanny about on the wing.

I'd like to see a front four of Welbeck, Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj with Welbeck leading the line, especially with RVP injured. Potentially a lot of technique and pace in that attack.
 
lysglimt said:
You can't have a striker playing regularly, scoring 5-6-7 goals each season in a club like United. Welbeck has the qualities to be a United striker but if he doesn't start scoring regularly, within a season or 2, he won't be at United for too long.

I love Welbeck for his skills and effort but he needs to improve a lot in front of goal to ever be a United regular. However - we have seen some positive signs this season
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If he started 30 odd games up front like most other strikers do, he'd be a 20 goals a season striker.


As it is he has a different role within the squad right now which is the reason we certainly will not be letting him go.
 
Pexbo said:
If he started 30 odd games up front like most other strikers do, he'd be a 20 goals a season striker.


As it is he has a different role within the squad right now which is the reason we certainly will not be letting him go.
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I'm not sure I agree to be honest. How many forwards have that kind of goal ratio?

His big problem is that he's up against a genuine and proven 20 goal plus a season forward in RVP, with another in Wayne Rooney playing behind and probably wanting to step in if required.

Its all about levels. Welbeck is a good player in his correct position - but whether he'll ever be a regular up against those sorts of players is questionable.

The big issue for me with him is his England career. Forwards get picked on form for the national side and if he doesnt play he'll have a problem long term. I suspect when RVP is back he'll be straight in and I also suspect either in January, or more likely in the summer money will be spent to stregthen the wide areas.
 
Suddenly one good game and he's 'He'll outscore anyone in the right position'.

Blimey. I understand I get stick for some of my opinions but at least they don't hinge on "he just played well - world beater - feck you doubters"

Talk about fickle. He played very well but this isn't his debut game. You can praise him and his performance without it meaning you have to instantly assume that memory of the majority of his games over the last 18 months must have been a bad dream or poorly recalled memory.

Why is it as soon as someone has a bad game or good game this place is filled with "I don't you so's" it's hilarious.
 
It's weird, I still think he has all the attributes to make a good wing forward in a 4-3-3. I guess our set up doesn't really work for him on the wing as much, but on paper he should still be decent out there.
 
Welbeck is a superstar in the making. He's got the skills, the brain, and the attitude to make it here, all that is lacking is composure/confidence, due to a lack of game time. He seems to rush his decisions because of this. Give him a run of games to allow him to settle, and he will become a hell of a player. Theznodarabathaaaa!
 
Plugsy said:
Suddenly one good game and he's 'He'll outscore anyone in the right position'.

Blimey. I understand I get stick for some of my opinions but at least they don't hinge on "he just played well - world beater - feck you doubters"

Talk about fickle. He played very well but this isn't his debut game. You can praise him and his performance without it meaning you have to instantly assume that memory of the majority of his games over the last 18 months must have been a bad dream or poorly recalled memory.

Why is it as soon as someone has a bad game or good game this place is filled with "I don't you so's" it's hilarious.
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Who said that?
 
The argument is as follows:

Welbeck will score a lot more goals when playing as a forward than on the wing.

Which is bloody obvious. So does Rooney, for instance. And everyone else.

There's an argument to be had that Welbeck's finishing is too bad (it is) but at the same time I think it's evident that when playing as the furthest forward striker, he'll get into so many goalscoring positions that the goals will come if given time (and his finishing will improve). His movement, physique and technique means he'll always get chances and create problems for defenders.

Look at Rooney. He improved his finishing by being played consistantly up front in 09/10 and became clinical. Experience and practice is the key.

It would actually be really interesting to see him played consistantly as the front man. I guess we'll see it now with RvP out. I think he'll surprise a lot of the naysayers.
 
Rowem said:
It's weird, I still think he has all the attributes to make a good wing forward in a 4-3-3. I guess our set up doesn't really work for him on the wing as much, but on paper he should still be decent out there.
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He gets a shitload of chances for England and has a good return, and I don't think that's a coincidence. He suits Roy's 433 down to a tee when he chooses to utilise it. Roy loves him as a result.
 
People miss the point with his finishing.

If he's through on goal, he's not the best of finishers but as a poacher he's very good at using his physical and technical attributes to get into positions to get a shot in. That's the sort of position he can only get into as a striker. Look how he leads the line for England and how he links up with Rooney when he's holding off a defender or getting into the space behind them.

He's still learning the trade and has better players ahead of him but he'll end up as our main striker in 4 or 5 years when he's 27/28 and Rooney and Van Persie have slowed down or moved on.
 
Look, in 2011\12 he had a return of 12 goals in 39 appearances in all competitions, some of them as a sub and most if not all as a striker. It's not an outstanding return, but it's a good one in his first full season with us. Plenty to build on. If we hadn't had that brain fart against Everton, we'd be talking about his great goal in that game as a big moment in a championship winning season. And the next season, we got Van Persie and he was sent to the wing...

He needs to work on his finishing, it must improve. But look at Saha who wasn't a great finisher, but still a terrific player. And he's got that all around game.
 
We're kidding ourselves if we think his only issue is his return of goals. That particular aspect has been poor but aside from the odd game (Real Madrid away being one, maybe ironically) his overall contribution hasn't been great and that isn't changed by having a top game over the weekend. It isn't just a case of him needing to score goals, he needs to improve in other areas too.

This is my fear that all it takes is for a good game and suddenly nothing else before it matters. It's 100% "feck you doubters". If you had criticism or concern with his game before Sunday, you're not suddenly proved wrong because of the Villa performance.
 
Plugsy said:
We're kidding ourselves if we think his only issue is his return of goals. That particular aspect has been poor but aside from the odd game (Real Madrid away being one, maybe ironically) his overall contribution hasn't been great and that isn't changed by having a top game over the weekend. It isn't just a case of him needing to score goals, he needs to improve in other areas too.

This is my fear that all it takes is for a good game and suddenly nothing else before it matters. It's 100% "feck you doubters". If you had criticism or concern with his game before Sunday, you're not suddenly proved wrong because of the Villa performance.
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Eh?

The only problem with Welbeck is his finishing. His all round play, touch, technique and one touch play is already United quality which is why I find his poor finishing ability even more infuriating. Had never been more excited for a youth player than I had been for Welbeck post Euro 12 but we signed RVP which essentially stopped his development
 
Good for him to grab a couple of goals - that's the main thing. It doesn't mean all that much in itself, as Villa clearly weren't all that, but it could give him a little boost confidence wise. It's not easy for either Welbeck or Hernandez these days. The competition is stiff, to say the least.

Danny certainly has time on his side, though. He can afford to spend a season or two as a pure back-up, I think - taking his chances up front whenever they come, like he did yesterday. Hernandez is a different story. If something has to give - I'm afraid he is the odd man out.
 
Despite all his skill I don't think he will ever be a create a goal for myself type of striker, he is just so clumsy in there when given time to thing and almost chooses the wrong decision. But one, two touch finishes will be his bread and butter. He just needs more games upfront to adjust to the different situations/positions he gets himself in as a striker.
 
marjen said:
He'll score goals when played as a striker regularly though. Much more than 5-6-7.
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Exactly. He already has 3 when he was played up top, what, twice or three times this season. His goal return probably should be better, even playing from the wing, but given the lack of game time, especially, in his favoured position is always going to stifle his return.
 
Have we really got posters in here trying to get us to reign in our enthusiasm? really??
 
RexHamilton said:
Exactly. He already has 3 when he was played up top, what, twice or three times this season. His goal return probably should be better, even playing from the wing, but given the lack of game time, especially, in his favoured position is always going to stifle his return.
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He has 5 already - 2 against Swansea and 2 against Villa when starting upfront - and one against Shakhtar, although he was playing on the wing iirc.
 
Hopefully he can get double figures this season as I feel it would do his confidence the world of good. I reckon he might get around 12 or 13 if he can manage to get more game-time up front.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Despite all his skill I don't think he will ever be a create a goal for myself type of striker, he is just so clumsy in there when given time to thing and almost chooses the wrong decision. But one, two touch finishes will be his bread and butter. He just needs more games upfront to adjust to the different situations/positions he gets himself in as a striker.
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Hes far from clumsy.

It is and always was a confidence issue with him. The ability and skill is clearly there. When he does score you see a different player emerge. Look at him for England. People should really try and show a bit more patience with him. You can see it means so much to him to play for the club. I also think thats a factor with his confidence in some respects.
 
Decotron said:
Hes far from clumsy.

It is and always was a confidence issue with him. The ability and skill is clearly there. When he does score you see a different player emerge. Look at him for England. People should really try and show a bit more patience with him. You can see it means so much to him to play for the club. I also think thats a factor with his confidence in some respects.
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You don't think he is clumsy when presented with chances in the box? That could be linked to confidence and the fact that he is not a natural goalscorer and so over thinks things. Most of his goals for England are one or two touch finishes (which is absolutely fine). He just isn't the type to create a goal out of nothing imo. I would love to be wrong, but I haven't seen anything suggesting such thus far.

It's great that it means so much to him, homegrown players help maintain the clubs identity but for me he needs to do his talking on the pitch for me. He isn't getting to play upfront but he hasn't been enough of a threat out wide, there should be some improvement from him in that regard because that is where he will be for the foreseeable future.

He can be a good striker, RVP has stunted his development. He has all the physical attributes and his a good technical player too. I think the fact he doesn't score enough plays on his mind so when he gets a sight of goal he is rushes and overthinks and thats when he gets clumsy.
 
Apart from natural finishing ability he has everything really. To see that pace on a tall player is quite rare, and when you factor in his strength and aerial ability and hold up play and etc etc, then its clear that this a player we need to have around.

Is he the finished article? No

He is exactly the kind of squad player that has seperated us from the pack and won us so many titles down the years though, and if he keeps in improving he will be a top class player that we won't be able to keep out of the team.
 
akash02 said:
Eh?

The only problem with Welbeck is his finishing. His all round play, touch, technique and one touch play is already United quality which is why I find his poor finishing ability even more infuriating. Had never been more excited for a youth player than I had been for Welbeck post Euro 12 but we signed RVP which essentially stopped his development
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I disagree with this. He holds the ball up well but he lacks composure (hence numerous missed chances when he does get in the box) and his touch is erratic at times. Composure is what, in my opinion at least, sperates the "good" forwards from the "very good" forwards.
 
RedRover said:
I disagree with this. He holds the ball up well but he lacks composure (hence numerous missed chances when he does get in the box) and his touch is erratic at times. Composure is what, in my opinion at least, sperates the "good" forwards from the "very good" forwards.
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When I say poor finishing that includes his composure in front of goal. He's obviously very poor in that regard and needs to improve but I have no problems with the other parts of his game. His touch is quite good imo. Looks awkward but manages to control the ball more often than not
 
JaffyJoe said:
You don't think he is clumsy when presented with chances in the box? That could be linked to confidence and the fact that he is not a natural goalscorer and so over thinks things. Most of his goals for England are one or two touch finishes (which is absolutely fine). He just isn't the type to create a goal out of nothing imo. I would love to be wrong, but I haven't seen anything suggesting such thus far.

It's great that it means so much to him, homegrown players help maintain the clubs identity but for me he needs to do his talking on the pitch for me. He isn't getting to play upfront but he hasn't been enough of a threat out wide, there should be some improvement from him in that regard because that is where he will be for the foreseeable future.

He can be a good striker, RVP has stunted his development. He has all the physical attributes and his a good technical player too. I think the fact he doesn't score enough plays on his mind so when he gets a sight of goal he is rushes and overthinks and thats when he gets clumsy.
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Good post.

I understand why people want him to do well - he works hard, has a great attitude and as a homegrown player the club clearly means the world to him. Fair play and I'm sure we'd all love him to do well.

The issue here is what direction the club are heading in. As it stands he hasn't done enough to earn a regular place over the likes of RVP. As harsh as it is the club needs world class players in certain positions, centre forward being one of those positions in my opinion. That's the reality of trying to make your living at a club of United's stature, where the pressure is high.

As much as I like him its clear that having him upfront over a player of RVP's calibre is a step backwards, so long term I dont see it happening. He may be happy to stay at the club and not play week in week out in his favoured position and if so, fair play to him.

He has a chance now to show what he can do and perhaps he'll take it with both hands. But I see liumitations in his game that the very best forwards dont have, even at his age.
 
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