I'm sure Rene has spent quite a bit of time helping Jones develop his game further since he joined the club as a 19 year old a year and a half ago.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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I'm not sure Jones is the sort of entity you can 'nurture'. In the same way that you can't nurture an avalanche.
I'm sure he has as he probably does with the rest of the players I'd imagine. But not nurture him, he came to us as a semi established PL player whereas he was training Cleverley and Welbeck from when they were young teenagers.
I've never tried nurturing an avalanche, I suspect it would be an impossible task.
Semi established player or not, he was a raw player, still is and needs nuturing more so than other players we have brought more recently.
Top class performance.
I remember reading that in the newbs. I thought the poster was joking; but clearly he wasn't.Nice header goal and good all round game as usual. Surely will do good for his confidence, but does that mean he will start scoring regularly from now on, lets see.
Can we give Danny the number 9 shirt next season? He will undoubtly end up as a legend for this club
I sure hope so. Goals is the only real area that has been letting him down this season.
If he'd got a goal in every game he deserved one, he'd be up there with the top scorers right now. What I mean by that is, he's been playing very well and getting into great positions, working hard for the team and getting in there amongst the chances. The goals will come.
I agree. His game in the build up has been very good all season. He has just lacked that end product which has drawn some negative comments. Once he gets that composure in front of goals he will get far more recognition than he is currently getting. Hope his goal against Madrid is the turning point for him in that respect
Setting the recent CL game aside, Welbeck has 16 starts this season, with 1 goal and 4 assists.
8 of Welbeck's 16 starts have been with Persie starting also, meaning he wasn't being played up top but on the wing. (He scored his only other goal against Stoke playing on the wing with Persie up top.)
4 of the remaining 8 starts have been with Chicharito, meaning Welbeck has either been playing in the hole or on the wing.
In the 4 remaining games I think we can assume he was up top, and while 0 goal in 4 games as the lead striker isn't great, it also doesn't read as desperately as 1 goal in 16 starts.
8 of Welbeck's 16 starts have been with Persie starting also, meaning he wasn't being played up top but on the wing. (He scored his only other goal against Stoke playing on the wing with Persie up top.)
4 of the remaining 8 starts have been with Chicharito, meaning Welbeck has either been playing in the hole or on the wing.
In the 4 remaining games I think we can assume he was up top, and while 0 goal in 4 games as the lead striker isn't great, it also doesn't read as desperately as 1 goal in 16 starts.
It reads worse actually, it means that he is on course for 0 in 16 should he continue at that rate.
Nonetheless, he just needs to add consistent goals to his game. Not only did he score against Madrid, he also popped up in more goal scoring positions. We need to see more of that.
Still, it's not the same as Cleverley and Welbeck. Anyway that's neither here nor there.
Does anyone else love the way that Dannyjust gallops with the ball, he's so deceptively quick.
What constitutes an effective performance if not this?
Some quotes from a couple of years ago for a bit of fun:
Thinking he might not make it is understandable but seriously, how can anyone think he has an abysmal first touch or "major technical issues"?
one presumes those quotes are 3-4 years ago. Welbeck has changed beyond all recognition since then so its probably unfair to dig those up. What would be funnier would be to dig up the negative comments over the last 3-4 weeks
It's not unfair considering some of those people were confident enough to write him off at the time.
Pretty sure that quote from me is from about 2008 when someone was trying to claim Welbeck was already better than Walcott, after Welbeck had played in about 3 games. This is so long ago that it's when I still thought Walcott might actually grow a spine and become about 3 times better than he is (it still might happen).
All I've done on here since then is defend him from cretins who somehow conclude he isn't very good, or wanted to use him as some kind of transfer trading card.
I don't really get why it took a game against Real for people to pay attention to what he actually does either. He's put in similar performances only a few weeks earlier at Spurs and West Ham, and has looked the part ever since his loan to Sunderland (and before that at youth and reserve level). Do people just not count a player's performance at all unless they score a goal?
All I've done on here since then is defend him from cretins who somehow conclude he isn't very good, or wanted to use him as some kind of transfer trading card.
I don't really get why it took a game against Real for people to pay attention to what he actually does either. He's put in similar performances only a few weeks earlier at Spurs and West Ham, and has looked the part ever since his loan to Sunderland (and before that at youth and reserve level). Do people just not count a player's performance at all unless they score a goal?
Wow, Stookie doesn't know much does he. Hernandez not deadly enough in the area
Underwhelming? He's not exactly started as a striker this season...and not regularly (understandable given our options).
Last season was his first full season in our side. a 20 year old...he had a goals to games ratio of 1 in 3...I'd say it's a good start.
This season has seen him shifted out wide and behind one of the best strikers in the world.
I'm certainly not accusing of folk being blind to it...but surely he has shown enough to be rated highly enough to be playing for Manchester United. Some I have spoken to don't reckon he's good enough for a place in our squad.
I really didnt.
I suggested that if he couldnt get games for us as a striker/forward, which he really hasnt gotten much for some time, there would be no point in him being played over and over again on the wing, which is not a good position from him. If that pattern continued then I said it would be best for his development to play as a forward elsewhere for some time. I dont see what's wrong with that sentiment. I didnt even say I wanted him to go on loan, because that wouldnt be good for the club as a whole, just that he individually would profit more from that than being on the wing here.
Against Real Welbeck played centrally while Rooney was given that "not in his best position" role, and because Rooney is so good no matter where he plays it worked fine. He wasnt great, but better than what we mostly get from Welbeck on the wing.
Welbeck on the other hand shone playing centrally. If he can get games there he will profit individually, and judging from his performance he should be given chances in his best position more often.
You just jumped on a small part of my posts and made it sound like I said something like "Welbeck is shite we dont need him. Lets loan him out" and then bring it up after the Real game like "haha those retards were proven wrong", when nothing of what I said actually contrasts with him getting a game centrally and playing well.
Bang on. This place is full of people who doesn't have patience towards our youngsters.
All he was lacking a goal and considering he's been playing on the wings, his drought wasn't that bad.
he didnt play centrally, RVp did. We just utilised him coming from wide left to utilise his pace stretching the centre halves. This allowed RVP to drop deeper to do flick ons etc.
As Noodle rightly says, Welbeck has played the same way in quite a few games this season, its just its more highlighted because he scored against Madrid
As for the whole loan thing you say you didnt suggest he get loaned out but that for his development there is no point him playing again and again on the left. So what are you saying if its not loan him out? stick him in the reserves?
What you fail to see in his development is not only can he play CF, he can also now play left side or one of 3 in the same way Henry was developed.
As Noodle rightly says, Welbeck has played the same way in quite a few games this season, its just its more highlighted because he scored against Madrid
As for the whole loan thing you say you didnt suggest he get loaned out but that for his development there is no point him playing again and again on the left. So what are you saying if its not loan him out? stick him in the reserves?
What you fail to see in his development is not only can he play CF, he can also now play left side or one of 3 in the same way Henry was developed.
Wow, Stookie doesn't know much does he. Hernandez not deadly enough in the area
The only way he could have been deadlier is if he litteraly carried a gun and shot the keeper before scoring in empty nets
Typical Welbeck performance, to be honest. It's only because it's against Real Madrid, he got his goal and other attackers (Rooney) lost their composure on the ball that it stood out.
The lad has been decent to good all season, just people's expectations needed adjusting.
Like I said in another thread, playing deeper and wider might be the making of him as a top class player. He's so comfortable on the ball, playing with his back to goal and passing it back to other players. Taking him out of his comfort zone making him pick out risky passes, run forward with the ball and just face the goal could help him far more than a run of games as a striker doing his natural game of holding the ball up and laying it off.
No Im saying play him like he played against Madrid. You guys are blind if you dont see that Welbeck played more centrally and more like a forward than he has done most of the games this season. Of course RVP was the main forward and central player, but after that Welbeck had the secondary offensive duties. Rooney obviously pulled the shorter straw and was less involved attacking-wise, for the better of the team.
You are being intentionally rigid and dim for the sake of it. Is there no middle ground between sticking him up front every game and dumping him into the reserves? Of course there is. Play him as on Wednsday in some games and have him come off the bench in others. Just dont force him into the team out wide when we play a wide formation. Him and Rooney can alternate on having the most attacking role if we play a narrower formation like we did against Madrid.
When we play a wide formation with Valencia on the right and someone (often Welbeck) on the left I see no point in that if we want him to become a striker. He still needs to work on finishing, and he will get that from playing in front of goal. I dont think we will agree on that last point anyway. I think we should play with proper wingers when we play a wide formation, you think he gets valuable experience playing in that position as well. Cant agree about everything.
He played on the left in the first half until the last 10 minutes where he moved to the right because Rooney wasn't offering enough protection for Rafael.
In the second half he played more centrally though with Kagawa dropping deeper.
In the second half he played more centrally though with Kagawa dropping deeper.
For games that SAF considers the most difficult, I'd like to see RVP up front and Rooney, Welbeck, and Kagawa behind.
These three should have the freedom to roam anywhere they wish across the pitch so long as they maintain discipline when defending.
I think the more they play together the more effective they will be.
They have the potential to be devastating, whether setting up RVP or getting goals themselves.
These three should have the freedom to roam anywhere they wish across the pitch so long as they maintain discipline when defending.
I think the more they play together the more effective they will be.
They have the potential to be devastating, whether setting up RVP or getting goals themselves.
I remember that! I'm sure the poster has been promoted since too!
I get your point, but I think that's horribly unfair on Danny.
He plays the big games because he's technically a very, very good player and thats what you need, the fact he works hard is a plus but that's not why he's playing.
A mixture of both I'd say. I'm a massive Welbeck fan but even I have to admit that his end product hasn't been that great, although I don't hold it against him because I see the potential. And whilst he is really really good technically, he probably wouldn't get as much game time if his work ethic wasn't as great as it is.
You missunderstood what I was trying to say, or perhaps I should have worded myself better.
Those are the reasons that stand out to me, obviously you don't just put someone in the game because he'll run. It's just that I really appreciate that, as it's very disruptive for the opponents and influences the way a match is played more than a lot of people realise.
He's clearly got other qualities, just that it's not very often that you see a player like him (or Rooney) in that regard, we're very lucky that we've got that, and again, it's what stood out to me in this latest game which is why I felt the need to point it out. I had no intention of saying the reason Welbeck plays is because he runs a lot, that would be stupid and insulting.
I don't believe that there is any doubt that Welbeck is going to become and amazing footballer. Rather he starts to bang in 20 odd goals a season or not.
Ooops, what was that, then? I meant to say Jonny Evans, of course.
I remember that! I'm sure the poster has been promoted since too!
Wouldn't be recommended by Brwned then. I remember he was around replying posts
.It's amazing how shit post can stick in mind for that long, eh?
The sad thing is there was one poster who mentioned it a few times, but he wasn't the only one!
When he adds goals to his game (and he will), he'll become one of the first names on the team sheet every game.
The lad is still only 22. How many world class forwards were massive goals scorers at that age? Not many is the answer.
The lad is still only 22. How many world class forwards were massive goals scorers at that age? Not many is the answer.
Damn. There were so many of them.Tbf, I admit I've made few blunders, too. I thought Gibson would make it at United. And so did Richardson
That blackbill was a terrible, terrible poster. I swear he compared Rooney to Heskey once.
So much of it is confidence. You miss a few early in the season and it makes you tentative. Even a very very confident lad like Rooney isn't immune.
You can see it in the way he's been shooting this season. Welbeck CAN finish really well. He may never have been the most clinical around but when he's on his game he has a lovely easy shooting style, like he knows exactly what's going to happen before it does.
I bet that Bernabeu game does him a world of good.
You can see it in the way he's been shooting this season. Welbeck CAN finish really well. He may never have been the most clinical around but when he's on his game he has a lovely easy shooting style, like he knows exactly what's going to happen before it does.
I bet that Bernabeu game does him a world of good.
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