Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

[ciderman9000000]

I was referring more to overall play near the penalty area with reference to yesterday, I thought he should have done better with the limited opportunities he got.

In general this season however he should be in double figures , only 1 goal given the chances he has had is truly woeful, for any Premier League player, let alone one trying to make it at United. His work ethic and touch can be very good, but again working your socks off all game is almost meaningless if you miss a great chance, which is an all to common theme this season.

This is the reason why (in my opinion) at the moment he should really only be playing against the bottom 10-12 teams, or at home.

Bullshit.

Yeah, but not all season he hasn't. Also, you could argue that it isn't Evra's, Cleverly's or Jonny's role to score goals, yet they still have more goals this season. As an attacking player, if you will, he could be scoring more goals than he is.

Wasted chances, are wasted chances. No matter where you're playing.

He pretty much has.

Welbeck is performing his role in the team admirably this season. He's missed a few good chances, whilst being really unlucky with a number of halfers he's carved out. Aside from that though he's created so much for those around him; he dribbled across the box and found Cleverley in space for our goal yesterday, he generally wins possession for us in dangerous areas when no other player would have been able to do so, I've not seen an attacking player better at dispossessing the opposition since younger versions of Tevez or Rooney. He's a right handful for any defensive line, constantly offering our fullbacks options whilst he initiates counter attacks again and again with his quick turn and control in the midfield area or either flank. You can choose to ignore all this and concentrate on his poor goals scored tally, or you can acknowledge his worth, look at the game as more than just a collection of statistics and recognise Danny Welbeck's valuable contribution to the team this season. By all means, if you must, criticise players when they're not playing well, but stop all the needless nitpicking against those who in many ways have kept us going this season.

 

[Shark]

Bullshit.



He pretty much has.

Welbeck is performing his role in the team admirably this season. He's missed a few good chances, whilst being really unlucky with a number of halfers he's carved out. Aside from that though he's created so much for those around him; he dribbled across the box and found Cleverley in space for our goal yesterday, he generally wins possession for us in dangerous areas when no other player would have been able to do so, I've not seen an attacking player better at dispossessing the opposition since younger versions of Tevez or Rooney. He's a right handful for any defensive line, constantly offering our fullbacks options whilst he initiates counter attacks again and again with his quick turn and control in the midfield area or either flank. You can choose to ignore all this and concentrate on his poor goals scored tally, or you can acknowledge his worth, look at the game as more than just a collection of statistics and recognise Danny Welbeck's valuable contribution to the team this season.

He's been in good form(as far as work outside the box goes) these past few games, certainly not all season though.

 

[ciderman9000000]

He's been in good form(as far as work outside the box goes) these past few games, certainly not all season though.

If you say so.

To be honest though, I think that many supporters to often fail to grasp the significance of contribution outside of the core skillsets for certain stereotype positions and subsequently interpret their own ignorance as a player underperforming. Read through this thread and count the frequency of the phrase 'He's a striker, his job is to score goals!' and you'll see what I mean. At the current time, Danny Welbeck's job is to do more of less exactly what he has been doing.

 

[Elliott]

He's been in good form(as far as work outside the box goes) these past few games, certainly not all season though.

He was much better than this place would have you believe early on in the season.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Always seems to implode in the final third. Could have set up kagawa twice yesterday. Good outside it though.

 

[finneh]

Bullshit.

Welbeck is performing his role in the team admirably this season. He's missed a few good chances, whilst being really unlucky with a number of halfers he's carved out. Aside from that though he's created so much for those around him; he dribbled across the box and found Cleverley in space for our goal yesterday, he generally wins possession for us in dangerous areas when no other player would have been able to do so, I've not seen an attacking player better at dispossessing the opposition since younger versions of Tevez or Rooney. He's a right handful for any defensive line, constantly offering our fullbacks options whilst he initiates counter attacks again and again with his quick turn and control in the midfield area or either flank. You can choose to ignore all this and concentrate on his poor goals scored tally, or you can acknowledge his worth, look at the game as more than just a collection of statistics and recognise Danny Welbeck's valuable contribution to the team this season. By all means, if you must, criticise players when they're not playing well, but stop all the needless nitpicking against those who in many ways have kept us going this season.

Well I have to disagree. I'd put his season at a whole as a 6/10 at best and feel if you asked Welbeck he'd probably be harsher on himself, given his talent. He has bags of time to add productivity to his game, but I don't think he has this at the moment.

Again I try to be totally objective and not judge him as a young local lad who grew up supporting United; but a first team forward player at one of the best teams in the world. I certainly think Welbeck gets an easy ride on here (which is good as no-one should be written off in their early 20's), compared with De Gea or a couple of seasons ago, Rafael or for instance Hernandez last season.

 

[Amar__]

I still think his best position is left inside forward.

At what point will supporters accept that Welbeck playing on the wing isn't him being out of position? He's an excellent forward, he's not a striker. Welbeck isn't on the pitch to score goals; it'd be great if he could add that to his game, composure in front of goal is something he lacks for sure, but he isn't a striker and his contribution to the team regardless of a lack of goalscoring is immense. He plays as a defender high up the pitch, such is his work rate when the opponent is in possession of the ball, his link up play with ourselves in possession is very good; he's not the best passer in the team, but again, with his work rate he's always available to receive the ball anywhere on the pitch upon which he's highly adept at control in close quarters, he both wins and keeps posssion. He's powerful when running with the ball at his feet, shrugging off and through challenges as he drives forward; he needs to learn to get his head up and spot the pass a bit quicker in these situations, but also his team mates need to anticipate his dribbling better; often Welbeck will run with the ball into a great position to find that nobody has come with him or made themselves available for the final ball. Overall, Welbeck is having a great season imo; goals would be a bonus, but even without them, to criticise him would be to not understand the game.

I like you cider.

 

[Beachryan]

I just think he panics. As he gets older and more confident that'll hopefully subside, and then his quality will shine through. At least I hope so.

 

[Zen86]

I'm not sure he's direct enough to cut it as a striker, great link up play and keeps the ball well but I can't see him turning that into goals any time soon. I do rate him as a player though.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

Have you considered that perhaps SAF doesn't put Welbeck on the pitch to score goals?

Should Welbeck to be judged by his overall contribution, or by AlwaysRedwood's short-sighted expectations?

Right. That's why I'm also judging him for missing a couple of passes that would have led to easy goals, something others have now agreed with.

How many times would you like me to repeat this simple, now overstated point?

 

[ciderman9000000]

Right. That's why I'm also judging him for missing a couple of passes that would have led to easy goals, something others have now agreed with.

How many times would you like me to repeat this simple, now overstated point?

Okay:

I'm one of these strange people who expects strikers to do something in the box. Even if he's not going to put a shot on goal, he had two chances to make easy passes for goals. He did neither.

It stood out.

So, just okay.

I'm not sure which 'two chances to make easy passes for goals' you're referring to, but you seem to be forgetting that it was a Welbeck dribble and pass that led to our goal.

Right, so you're not just claiming that all Welbeck should be doing is scoring goals, you're at the same time ignoring times when he has a large contribution in the creation of goals?

Not just on the pitch to score goals then?

He's on the pitch to score goals.

Great. He's still on the pitch to score goals.

He's on the pitch to score goals

Okay.

I'll say it again, he's on the pitch to score goals.

Right.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

Okay:

Right.

Yeah, if you go through and just isolate parts of what I said instead of taking them as a whole, you can get that. It's a childish, stupid, rather pathetic way to make your point. But, if that's the only way to win your argument, go for it.

Just grab the ones where I was speaking of him scoring one goal all season and that being a problem with his season contribution and assign it to this game. Nailed it.

Then be sure to not take the ones where I criticized him for not making two easy passes in this game in the box that would have led to goals.

Certainly ignore where I repeatedly said he turned into a headless chicken in the box, whether passing or doing anything else, as criticism and just go grab those.

Because the only point I'm making is that he was not great in this game and that he is lacking goals this season for a striker. (Or really anyone who spends so much time going forward). I'm not saying he's a shit player, or that he won't become good. I'm just commenting on him currently. One goal. Loses composure in the box.

No, just isolate those and act like you made a point.

Does not make you seem like a stupid asshole at all.

Definitely done with this thread.

 

[KingEric7]

A person of Welbeck's talent is capable of producing much more than he has this season, no doubt. Whether that more be in terms of creativity, goals or something else. Thought he had some excellent moments yesterday though, and some of his dribbling at the moment reminds me more of when he was a bit younger. Really effortless in his technique.

Also, if there were ever any questions regarding how fast Welbeck actually is, I think it's fair to say by now that he is pretty fecking rapid.

 

[The Neviller]

Yeah, if you go through and just isolate parts of what I said instead of taking them as a whole, you can get that. It's a childish, stupid, rather pathetic way to make your point. But, if that's the only way to win your argument, go for it.

Just grab the ones where I was speaking of him scoring one goal all season and that being a problem with his season contribution and assign it to this game. Nailed it.

Then be sure to not take the ones where I criticized him for not making two easy passes in this game in the box that would have led to goals.

Certainly ignore where I repeatedly said he turned into a headless chicken in the box, whether passing or doing anything else, as criticism and just go grab those.

Because the only point I'm making is that he was not great in this game and that he is lacking goals this season for a striker. (Or really anyone who spends so much time going forward). I'm not saying he's a shit player, or that he won't become good. I'm just commenting on him currently. One goal. Loses composure in the box.

No, just isolate those and act like you made a point.

Does not make you seem like a stupid asshole at all.

Definitely done with this thread.

You did say it at least 4 times, in fairness.

 

[ciderman9000000]

Definitely done with this thread.

Please, no!

 

[Isotope]

Never thought Ciderman is this good FF poster. Quality posts so far.

 

[ciderman9000000]

You did say it at least 4 times, in fairness.

Indeed. When somebody makes a point of repeating 'He's on the pitch to score goals" over and over for a number of posts, it's somewhat shit of them to then spit their dummy out and have a big, girly cry about how another poster has isolated that statement in response to them.

 

[Drainy]

A person of Welbeck's talent is capable of producing much more than he has this season, no doubt. Whether that more be in terms of creativity, goals or something else. Thought he had some excellent moments yesterday though, and some of his dribbling at the moment reminds me more of when he was a bit younger. Really effortless in his technique.

Most players don't peak until their mid twenties, it's usually not through lack of technical ability. Technical ability can improve, but it's usually about reading of the game, knowing what runs to make, what passes to pick, confidence, composure and the ability to play with authority- the mental side of the game that improves the most.

There are very few football geniuses that are great enough in the mental aspects of the game in their teens to early twenties to consistently impact top flight games.

Welbeck has the whole package, he is great physically- big, fairly strong (although he still has a ways to go, I feel) and quick. He's great technically and he's actually very strong at the defensive side of the game too. Just got to wait and hope it clicks for him around the penalty area.

 

[That'sHernandez]

So he's gone from 'don't criticise him for not taking his chances, because he's young', to 'don't criticise him for not taking his chances, because he didn't get any chances'.

The point is, he's still not scoring. I do love him for his play outside the box, but you also want him scoring if he's going to start big games.

Perhaps it'd be fair to criticise him for not scoring if he were played in a position where he would be the most likely to score. Do you complain when Young, Nani or Valencia don't score every game they play? Because Welbeck has been largely deputising for them this season.

 

[Shark]

Perhaps it'd be fair to criticise him for not scoring if he were played in a position where he would be the most likely to score. Do you complain when Young, Nani or Valencia don't score every game they play? Because Welbeck has been largely deputising for them this season.

If Vidic misses three sitters in a game, they're still going to be as costly as striker missing them. It makes no difference where you play, if you're getting as many opportunities as Welbeck gets(I'm not talking about yesterday) and skying them over the bar or whatnot, It's still equally as costly for the team. Especially if we're trying to kill a game off.

Also, playing out wide or not, he'd still be expected to take some of the chances he's missed this season. Especially over someone like Valencia anyway. Obviously I don't expect any of our players to score every game, not even RVP. I'd just like to see Welbeck bang in a few more than a single goal, because the ability to do so is there and he does get a lot of opportunities. Which is a big positive in itself.

In saying all of that, Im a huge fan of the lad. He's a pure joy to watch and I fully rate him. All young players need criticism though, no matter how talented they are.

 

[KingEric7]

Most players don't peak until their mid twenties, it's usually not through lack of technical ability. Technical ability can improve, but it's usually about reading of the game, knowing what runs to make, what passes to pick, confidence, composure and the ability to play with authority- the mental side of the game that improves the most.

There are very few football geniuses that are great enough in the mental aspects of the game in their teens to early twenties to consistently impact top flight games.

Welbeck has the whole package, he is great physically- big, fairly strong (although he still has a ways to go, I feel) and quick. He's great technically and he's actually very strong at the defensive side of the game too. Just got to wait and hope it clicks for him around the penalty area.

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. I'm tempted to think Welbeck will have a cracking season out of nowhere when we're looking to someone to step up, much in the same way Ronaldo did when Van Nistelrooy left (starting with him gradually being phased out the team). It may take a few years, but I do think he's got 'world class' ability and that it will really click with him all at once at some point.

 

[Moby]

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. I'm tempted to think Welbeck will have a cracking season out of nowhere when we're looking to someone to step up, much in the same way Ronaldo did when Van Nistelrooy left (starting with him gradually being phased out the team). It may take a few years, but I do think he's got 'world class' ability and that it will really click with him all at once at some point.

Agreed, I think he is better than just being an average. End product is important, but the exposure he is getting at this age, without having much effect on our results, is vital. Will be after a long time that we would have a striker from our academy reaching good heights if he indeed develops his potential well.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

If Vidic misses three sitters in a game, they're still going to be as costly as striker missing them.

Key thing is I don't remember Welbeck missing three sitters in a game this season. He's missed chances I grant you but nothing that the likes of Van Persie and Hernandez have missed and he has not played up front like them. So all in all it's a funny argument.

I do agree he should have more than 1 goal but then so should Valencia (who's scored no goals this season) and Young (also scored none).

 

[Shark]

Key thing is I don't remember Welbeck missing three sitters in a game this season. He's missed chances I grant you but nothing that the likes of Van Persie and Hernandez have missed and he has not played up front like them. So all in all it's a funny argument.

'Sitters' was the wrong word to use there, I admit. He has missed chances that he probably should have put away though.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

'Sitters' was the wrong word to use there, I admit. He has missed chances that he probably should have put away though.

I vaguely remember one guilt edged chance he should have put away all season (In fairness I am sure there were more, I can't quite remember at this moment). Certainly not three in one game. I also remember Van Persie has missed quite a few chances too.

 

[Moby]

It is not exactly the blatant sitter or two that he misses, it is the final move, which could be anything from a shot to a simple lay off or anything. He works his socks off to create such great chances and totally screws up in the last second, and at times in a very silly way. Composure is the only thing he lacks, it is not finishing, not anything else. The lad can strike the ball proper.

 

[Shark]

Key thing is I don't remember Welbeck missing three sitters in a game this season. He's missed chances I grant you but nothing that the likes of Van Persie and Hernandez have missed and he has not played up front like them. So all in all it's a funny argument.

I do agree he should have more than 1 goal but then so should Valencia (who's scored no goals this season) and Young (also scored none).

Who you say should score more out of Valencia, Young and Welbeck, though?

Welbeck has far more ability in front of goal than Valencia, Young is a good finisher, but I'd still say that Welbeck comes out on top over him. Given they're practiced trades and ability, Welbeck should still be scoring more than them IMO.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Who you say should score more out of Valencia, Young and Welbeck, though?

Welbeck has far more ability in front of goal than Valencia, Young is a good finisher, but I'd still say that Welbeck comes out on top over him. Given they're practiced trades and ability, Welbeck should still be scoring more than them IMO.

Given they are all pretty much playing in similar positions this season, they should all be scoring more than they actually have.

Welbeck has scored more than the other two in fairness!

 

[ghaliboy]

This thread is great.

 

[Lynott]

Not the best passer, not the best finisher but he is on the pitch for his good work rate. Pretty much what I stated in my post a couple of days ago for which I was roundly abused, but that is to be expected these days on the internet. Trouble is the concensus here is that these are good attributes for a forward. I disagree.

 

[Marcus]

It is not exactly the blatant sitter or two that he misses, it is the final move, which could be anything from a shot to a simple lay off or anything. He works his socks off to create such great chances and totally screws up in the last second, and at times in a very silly way. Composure is the only thing he lacks, it is not finishing, not anything else. The lad can strike the ball proper.

I don't think it's composure he lacks. He works so hard for the team he is likely to be knackered when he gets the chance. If he waited around the opposition goal all day like the lazy sod Jean Pierre Papin he might score a lot more.

 

[Brwned]

Not the best passer, not the best finisher but he is on the pitch for his good work rate. Pretty much what I stated in my post a couple of days ago for which I was roundly abused, but that is to be expected these days on the internet. Trouble is the concensus here is that these are good attributes for a forward. I disagree.

Poor touch.

Spoiler

Poor passing.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Poor finishing.

Spoiler

 

[Massive Spanner]

You're an idiot Brwned, none of those are poor at all!

 

[SteveJ]

You're an idiot Brwned, none of those are poor at all!

Yeah, I spotted that flaw immediately because of my incredible analysing skills. And I haven't even watched the videos!

Now here's Fluffy with the weather...

 

[JayWalker]

 

[Platato]

I didn't see him miss any chances yesterday.

Think he's referring to the assists Welbeck could have had.

 

[ghaliboy]

Only listened to the first half and he worked hard from what I saw in the second half. Saw a couple of people slating him.

I feel for him. I hope he doesn't take what we say to heart or have access to a swag of people slating him. Hope he scores a bundle soon! It's good to be a striker without the expectation of internal pressure to perform added into any other yips.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

Indeed. When somebody makes a point of repeating 'He's on the pitch to score goals" over and over for a number of posts, it's somewhat shit of them to then spit their dummy out and have a big, girly cry about how another poster has isolated that statement in response to them.

Oh, Jesus. What an entitled cnut you are. How about I don't have the exact same discussion over and over with different people.

Get over yourself, sweety.

 

[Platato]

It's a shame. I'm sure the goals will come but as of right now, even when he's in goalscoring positions, I just don't expect him to score. Surely got to score soon you would think.

 

[RDCR07]

It would help if he is actually played as a striker for him to score. Wing is not his position. He has a lot of pace and hence he is getting playing time there. He is a very hard worker and a good passer, hence he is a very good team player. He has scored only 1 goal for us this season but Im not worried about that.