Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

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As I said earlier, I don't think it's a simple case of he needs to improve it, I don't think there's much to improve. I think technically he's a very good finisher, his goal for England against Belgium (I think) his one against Sweden and goals against City in the FA Cup show that.

I think it's a mental issue, he's snatching at chances because he hasn't scored in a while and when that goal comes he'll look a better player for it. I think confidence explains more than lack of ability here.

Regardless of why, he plays for a very good side that creates a lot of chances - Rooney, Hernandez and Van Persie can convert those chances, he struggles at times to do the same.

Confidence may be the issue, but you need to be able to do it when the pressure is one when you play for a side like United. That to me is one of the key differences bewteen players at the very top level - plenty of players have the talent, not all have the temperament to turn it on when required.
 
At what point will supporters accept that Welbeck playing on the wing isn't him being out of position? He's an excellent forward, he's not a striker. Welbeck isn't on the pitch to score goals; it'd be great if he could add that to his game, composure in front of goal is something he lacks for sure, but he isn't a striker and his contribution to the team regardless of a lack of goalscoring is immense. He plays as a defender high up the pitch, such is his work rate when the opponent is in possession of the ball, his link up play with ourselves in possession is very good; he's not the best passer in the team, but again, with his work rate he's always available to receive the ball anywhere on the pitch upon which he's highly adept at control in close quarters, he both wins and keeps posssion. He's powerful when running with the ball at his feet, shrugging off and through challenges as he drives forward; he needs to learn to get his head up and spot the pass a bit quicker in these situations, but also his team mates need to anticipate his dribbling better; often Welbeck will run with the ball into a great position to find that nobody has come with him or made themselves available for the final ball. Overall, Welbeck is having a great season imo; goals would be a bonus, but even without them, to criticise him would be to not understand the game.

Spot on

fwiw I dont think ive ever seen another United forward chase down (and win) as many balls as Welbeck does
 
For those saying that he should be judged almost exclusively by his goal/assist output, I should think that they'd apply the same logic to Kagawa then.

Shinji played pretty well, but didn't score but I don't see people saying he was average despite him playing as a 2nd striker where you'd expect him to be creating chances and getting into positions to score goals.

It'd be nice if we could apply the same standards to all our players.

I for one disagree that he's just on the pitch to score goals. You can contribute significantly to the team in the final 3rd without scoring goals, and the positions Welbeck creates through his skill and drive he often creates out of nothing. He's also not being played as a striker at present, so overall I'm very happy with his productivity and contribution to the team.

It speaks volumes that he's been playing ahead of an in-form Hernandez, and as has been pointed out several times before, he's constantly improving, which is very encouraging...
 
Make up my mind from the two different posts that say the same thing: He's on the pitch to score goals

Okay.

I'll say it again, he's on the pitch to score goals.

Actually, if you read my posts, you'll see that I fault him greatly for missing two easy passes that would have resulted in goals. He's currently clueless in the box, making stretching of the defense irrelevant.

Call me crazy but I don't really recall Welbeck playing as an out and out striker at all in the Spurs game. He was often in the channels to provide width, which I'm guessing is what he was tasked with doing, which he did well.
 
The statistics recording website whoscored?com have actually changed Danny Welbeck's primary position from Forward to Attacking Midfielder now: link

That's interesting, they've only got him playing 2 games as the central striker. I knew it wasn't many but didn't realise that it had been that few.

EDIT: Although that site says that Nick Powell is a striker.
 
At what point will supporters accept that Welbeck playing on the wing isn't him being out of position? He's an excellent forward, he's not a striker. Welbeck isn't on the pitch to score goals; it'd be great if he could add that to his game, composure in front of goal is something he lacks for sure, but he isn't a striker and his contribution to the team regardless of a lack of goalscoring is immense. He plays as a defender high up the pitch, such is his work rate when the opponent is in possession of the ball, his link up play with ourselves in possession is very good; he's not the best passer in the team, but again, with his work rate he's always available to receive the ball anywhere on the pitch upon which he's highly adept at control in close quarters, he both wins and keeps posssion. He's powerful when running with the ball at his feet, shrugging off and through challenges as he drives forward; he needs to learn to get his head up and spot the pass a bit quicker in these situations, but also his team mates need to anticipate his dribbling better; often Welbeck will run with the ball into a great position to find that nobody has come with him or made themselves available for the final ball. Overall, Welbeck is having a great season imo; goals would be a bonus, but even without them, to criticise him would be to not understand the game.

It's not the fact that he doesn't score that certainly worries me, it's the fact that he gets into positions where he should either play a pass that should lead to a goal, or should score a goal himself, and he doesn't

The position you play is irrelevant. If Vidic misses 10-12 clear cut headers when he should score, he'd be costing us, even if his "job" isn't to score goals. Likewise any other player on the team, although obviously you'll be more forgiving if Vidic finds himself 10 yards out with the ball at his feet vs RVP.

It's the reason that I wouldn't yet trust Welbeck against top teams, particularly away from home. When you get a chance you need to take it in the big games. Chasing the ball down often and being generally neat and tidy is almost worthless if you miss a good opportunity.

That's why I'm disappointed with Welbeck this season, and would say he's having an average at best season, despite working hard. I don't expect him to finish like RVP, but I do expect him to perform like a competent Premier League attacker near the penalty area.
 
Thought he did alright yesterday. Made some runs and worked hard. I don't think he's learned how to play wide yet, but that will come with time. That being said so, once Nani and Young are back fit, I'd rather see him on the bench; he's not ready yet.
 
When it comes to performance ratings, I feel his overall contribution earns higher marks than RVP on a regular basis. It's like the old Heskey/Owen partnership for England.
 
It's not the fact that he doesn't score that certainly worries me, it's the fact that he gets into positions where he should either play a pass that should lead to a goal, or should score a goal himself, and he doesn't

The position you play is irrelevant. If Vidic misses 10-12 clear cut headers when he should score, he'd be costing us, even if his "job" isn't to score goals. Likewise any other player on the team, although obviously you'll be more forgiving if Vidic finds himself 10 yards out with the ball at his feet vs RVP.

It's the reason that I wouldn't yet trust Welbeck against top teams, particularly away from home. When you get a chance you need to take it in the big games. Chasing the ball down often and being generally neat and tidy is almost worthless if you miss a good opportunity.

That's why I'm disappointed with Welbeck this season, and would say he's having an average at best season, despite working hard. I don't expect him to finish like RVP, but I do expect him to perform like a competent Premier League attacker near the penalty area.

That's all well and good, but how many big/easy chances has he missed this year that have cost us? I'm sure there's a couple but I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head.

It's not like he's constantly messing up huge chances.
 
That's all well and good, but how many big/easy chances has he missed this year that have cost us? I'm sure there's a couple but I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head.

It's not like he's constantly messing up huge chances.

exactly, you'd swear he missed a load of chances! He didnt have any chances!
 
exactly, you'd swear he missed a load of chances! He didnt have any chances!

What gets me most is the levels of criticism you read hear, especially this season given our respective goal scoring record and league position.

Its verging on the bizarre imo, what do people want? Look at out points tally ffs. Compare that to far better United sides in the recent past. :confused:
 
That's all well and good, but how many big/easy chances has he missed this year that have cost us? I'm sure there's a couple but I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head.

It's not like he's constantly messing up huge chances.

exactly, you'd swear he missed a load of chances! He didnt have any chances!

Are we talking about Spurs specifically? If so he had a couple of opportunities that with a much more composed end products could have lead to assists.

Over the course of the season however I don't think I'd be exaggerating to say he should be on around 10 goals. In most games it doesn't cost us, because the likes of RVP bail him out. But exactly like De Gea, just because we win in spite of these mistakes doesn't make them less important. This is why I definitely wouldn't play him vs Madrid. If Welbeck got the one chance that could send us through he'd be unlikely to score it.
 
What gets me most is the levels of criticism you read hear, especially this season given our respective goal scoring record and league position.

Its verging on the bizarre imo, what do people want? Look at out points tally ffs. Compare that to far better United sides in the recent past. :confused:

our forwards should score nothing less than 5 goals per game!

People want perfection without fail.
 
Are we talking about Spurs specifically? If so he had a couple of opportunities that with a much more composed end products could have lead to assists.

Im talking about goalscoring chances that he had, that he missed against Spurs

He had one blocked shot that I can think off
 
exactly, you'd swear he missed a load of chances! He didnt have any chances!

So he's gone from 'don't criticise him for not taking his chances, because he's young', to 'don't criticise him for not taking his chances, because he didn't get any chances'.

The point is, he's still not scoring. I do love him for his play outside the box, but you also want him scoring if he's going to start big games.
 
well, its kinda impossible to score if you dont have any chances dont you think?

RVP didn't have a lot of chances, but he took the one decent chance that he did have. Hernandez does that too on a regular basis.

If Welbeck is going to start big games, he needs to start taking his chances. I'm not just talking about the Spurs game.
 
In fairness, games like Norwich away last year when he played up front and missed a bucketful of chances are fair enough for criticism. But clearly his main priority yesterday wasn't merely to score goals. It would be like criticising Kagawa for not scoring either.

He is currently playing a completely different role to RVP and Hernandez which is why a direct comparison to them is ridiculous. Also it is fair to say unlike them he is not in great form this season like most of our attacking midfielders.

I do think he needs to score more but purely for his own self confidence.
 
I am talking about the Spurs game, since he's getting so much flak about it this morning.

lets not compare our young lads to RVP; not many compare to him in world football!
 
I am talking about the Spurs game, since he's getting so much flak about it this morning.

lets not compare our young lads to RVP; not many compare to him in world football!

Why does everything have to be a comparison?

Surely a player of Welbeck's potential is aspiring to reach the likes of RVP's levels in terms of goal scoring though? I'd be surprised if he wasn't.
 
In fairness, games like Norwich away last year when he played up front and missed a bucketful of chances are fair enough for criticism. But clearly his main priority yesterday wasn't merely to score goals. It would be like criticising Kagawa for not scoring either.

He is currently playing a completely different role to RVP and Hernandez which is why a direct comparison to them is ridiculous. Also it is fair to say unlike them he is not in great form this season like most of our attacking midfielders.

I do think he needs to score more but purely for his own self confidence.

Yeah his role is different, I agree with that and he is playing brilliantly. A big part of his role is still to score though and I'd expect a striker that's going to start big games like yesterday, to be able to do so.
 
Yeah his role is different, I agree with that and he is playing brilliantly. A big part of his role is still to score though and I'd expect a striker that's going to start big games like yesterday, to be able to do so.

I'd probably disagree with him playing brilliant. He has done a good job in the role he has been given. I didn't expect him to score though given he wasn't playing as a striker and nearly all our attacking midfielders this season have been poor at scoring.
 
Yeah his role is different, I agree with that and he is playing brilliantly. A big part of his role is still to score though and I'd expect a striker that's going to start big games like yesterday, to be able to do so.

but he wasnt playing striker yesterday!
 
With the positions he is playing in, perhaps Ferguson is trying to change him and persuade him that being a striker is perhaps not his future? :smirk:

personally i think Ferguson is just trying to give him more experience to make him a better all round footballer. Problem with awareness you say? well lets play him on the wing, etc etc
 
A 4-3-3 with welbeck, rvp and nani as the front 3, clev, carrick and kagawa as the midfield 3 would be a sexy as feck footy team.
 
With the positions he is playing in, perhaps Ferguson is trying to change him and persuade him that being a striker is perhaps not his future? :smirk:

or perhaps he wants him to get game experience without being the man we rely on to score winning goals. This allows him to mature as a player, improve further his all around game and increase his confidence. Hopefully when he moves back upfront in a couple of years his composure and directness will be better, because he has everything else a world class forward needs.
 
With the positions he is playing in, perhaps Ferguson is trying to change him and persuade him that being a striker is perhaps not his future? :smirk:

Like many young forward players in top teams he's having to show his mettle in wider positions whilst the senior strikers take the glory in the CF spots, and like many young forward players in said circumstances he's finding goals difficult to come by. He's demonstrating his worth though regardless of a lack of goals, he'll sooner or later get his opportunities as a center forward if that's where SAF sees him, and until that happens it's unfair to judge him on goals alone.
 
Im talking about goalscoring chances that he had, that he missed against Spurs

He had one blocked shot that I can think off

I was referring more to overall play near the penalty area with reference to yesterday, I thought he should have done better with the limited opportunities he got.

In general this season however he should be in double figures, only 1 goal given the chances he has had is truly woeful, for any Premier League player, let alone one trying to make it at United. His work ethic and touch can be very good, but again working your socks off all game is almost meaningless if you miss a great chance, which is an all to common theme this season.

This is the reason why (in my opinion) at the moment he should really only be playing against the bottom 10-12 teams, or at home.
 
but he wasnt playing striker yesterday!

Yeah, but not all season he hasn't.

Also, you could argue that it isn't Evra's, Cleverly's or Jonny's role to score goals, yet they still have more goals this season. As an attacking player, if you will, he could be scoring more goals than he is.

Wasted chances, are wasted chances. No matter where you're playing.
 
Welbeck was one of the main reasons we created the chances we did - but he was also the main reason why we only scored 1 goal.
 
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