No he doesn't. He states there's as much evidence that Dier wanted to leave as there is that Utd wanted. You believe media reports on one and not the other.Aren't you contradicting yourself right from the start? You say you don't agree that United were after Dier ... and then you say that United wanted to buy him
Danny Rose | Rose: "I will play up North before I retire"
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And doesn't he? He states several times that Dier wants out.
Moreover, I haven't even said that I rely on the media reports (or even mentioned them) about United wanting Dier. There are other sources of information beyond just click-bait media stories.
He has. That is if you're making the same assumption you're implying others are making of you. In that his only information is the media. You're both guilty of picking and choosing the stories you want to believe.
I'm sure there are plenty of sources but I'd bet those writing the stories know more than a random bloke (you) off the Internet. Especially one so clearly biased.
@GlastonSpur You're first line there shows you completely misunderstood the point. I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt and explain it for you.
The exact point is how you pick and choose but if someone else does, you complain. You said United wanted Dier. There is as much evidence of that as there is that Dier wants to leave, which you initially took disagreement with. Saying you don't disagree with that premise.
Your paragraph about Rose actually backs me up. You've backtracked. So now he is happy to leave? Earlier on it was if he wants to leave then he hasn't said as much. So you've gone and agreed with what was my initial point. Why is everything so difficult with you? Always trying to worm your way out of a hole.
Yeah again, it was okay for Walker to leave. But only on the criteria you chose. Convenient, again. My actual point was about players wanting to leave, starters wanting to leave. Which wasn't the case last season, hence the trend seems to be a negative one. Honestly, how are you not seeing that? Delusion or ignorance? You assume I'm talking about it being okay that Walker chose to leave. I am not. I am saying he wanted to leave.
You console yourself however you wish to re. selling a player who wanted to leave and replacing him with a player who isn't as good. The profit you made is a nice excuse. (I did say you'd say that before you said it, remember.) It's almost as silly as us being happy we sold Ronaldo for a profit because we replaced him with a decent replacement, Valencia.
I didn't imply that. I said it. I said 3 of your starters wouldn't be there if they had their way. You can point to lack of evidence, but I've already shown that you pick evidence to back your claims and refute the exact same evidence to rubbish mine. (note, that is part of the reason this is my last reply to you in this conversation. I honestly think you suffer from delusion or ignorance.)
You are in a worse state. Talk about what you might do and the amazing youth players you might bring through and how the players you've got have definitely improved (because it's an exact science, obviously). How have you shown that progression this year? You've had one game in which you struggled to break down a promoted team until they went one man down. Players wanting to leave isn't good for the dressing room. But of course, no one actually wants to leave Spurs. My bad.
And if you can't see that a prominent (note, I didn't say star) Spurs player who is also the best in his position in the league, saying what he said isn't a big problem, then carry on mate. Back to that delusion I alluded to earlier.
Basically you totally disagree with my initial point about players wanting to leave meaning you're not in a worse way than last season. That's totally fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You've told me why you think what you do, I've told you why I think what I do. Obviously you're very welcome to reply (but you know you don't need my permission), however I won't be replying. I've said what I wanted to.
The exact point is how you pick and choose but if someone else does, you complain. You said United wanted Dier. There is as much evidence of that as there is that Dier wants to leave, which you initially took disagreement with. Saying you don't disagree with that premise.
Your paragraph about Rose actually backs me up. You've backtracked. So now he is happy to leave? Earlier on it was if he wants to leave then he hasn't said as much. So you've gone and agreed with what was my initial point. Why is everything so difficult with you? Always trying to worm your way out of a hole.
Yeah again, it was okay for Walker to leave. But only on the criteria you chose. Convenient, again. My actual point was about players wanting to leave, starters wanting to leave. Which wasn't the case last season, hence the trend seems to be a negative one. Honestly, how are you not seeing that? Delusion or ignorance? You assume I'm talking about it being okay that Walker chose to leave. I am not. I am saying he wanted to leave.
You console yourself however you wish to re. selling a player who wanted to leave and replacing him with a player who isn't as good. The profit you made is a nice excuse. (I did say you'd say that before you said it, remember.) It's almost as silly as us being happy we sold Ronaldo for a profit because we replaced him with a decent replacement, Valencia.
I didn't imply that. I said it. I said 3 of your starters wouldn't be there if they had their way. You can point to lack of evidence, but I've already shown that you pick evidence to back your claims and refute the exact same evidence to rubbish mine. (note, that is part of the reason this is my last reply to you in this conversation. I honestly think you suffer from delusion or ignorance.)
You are in a worse state. Talk about what you might do and the amazing youth players you might bring through and how the players you've got have definitely improved (because it's an exact science, obviously). How have you shown that progression this year? You've had one game in which you struggled to break down a promoted team until they went one man down. Players wanting to leave isn't good for the dressing room. But of course, no one actually wants to leave Spurs. My bad.
And if you can't see that a prominent (note, I didn't say star) Spurs player who is also the best in his position in the league, saying what he said isn't a big problem, then carry on mate. Back to that delusion I alluded to earlier.
Basically you totally disagree with my initial point about players wanting to leave meaning you're not in a worse way than last season. That's totally fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You've told me why you think what you do, I've told you why I think what I do. Obviously you're very welcome to reply (but you know you don't need my permission), however I won't be replying. I've said what I wanted to.
Fwiw, me saying I believe Dier wanted us was more to point to how ridiculous it was that he chose to believe that Dier didn't want to leave, based on the same evidence. That point went straight over his head.
Aren't you contradicting yourself right from the start? You say you don't agree that United were after Dier ... and then you say that United wanted to buy him
Concerning Rose, I haven't said that there "is no issue at all". Given his comments I'm sure he'd be happy to leave if another club (that he was willing to go to) were to offer him higher wages. But failing that, or if Spurs were to refuse to sell him even despite such an offer, I also think that he's not that unhappy about staying for another summer - pace his comments about wanting to go back up north "at some point".
Concerning Walker, I didn't dispute that he wanted to leave, so why imply otherwise? I simply said that Spurs were OK about letting him go, which I think is a fair point given the surrounding circumstances I've cited.
Then you come back to talking about 3 players wanting out (Walker, Rose and Dier), but present no evidence that Dier wants to leave.
Then you move onto Walker-Peters, as if saying that he's a downgrade on Walker is some big point, when he's clearly not even intended to be Walker's replacement this season. Re. Trippier, the difference in overall quality compared to Walker is fairly marginal IMO - and the difference is not worth forgoing £50m for. And by the way, £50m does not need "twisting" into a positive - it's clearly a very large sum of money for a wingback.
Next, when you said "The clear trend this summer is that players want to play for United", the clear implication was that players do not want to play for Spurs ... and it's disingenuous of you to now pretend otherwise.
Next, you say "my point about you being in a worse state this summer than last has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with where you finished last season". In my view that's ridiculous. The players have progressed compared last summer and have seen that progression (just as they did compared to season before that). Moreover, we've lost one player of note, will sign 2 or 3 new players, have/will bring more talented academy players into the squad and with any luck will have Lamela back for most of the season (unlike last season).
Against this backdrop, having Rose express some unhappy thoughts is relatively unimportant and certainly doesn't amount to Spurs being "in a worse state" than last summer.
Recent quotes in the media from certain Spurs players dictate otherwise. Over the past 12 months, Eric Dier has openly claimed his support for United and his wishes to join us, Kyle Walker has had a fallout with Poch which resulted in him leaving the club, Toby Alderweirld is stalling on sub par contract offer and Danny Rose has flatout lambasted the club for their lack of ambition and unwillingingness to pay their players a salary befitting their ability.
Clearly the situation over the last year or so has worsened at Spurs, that you state otherwise is pure and utter denial.
In that case perhaps you'd give us the quotes and how these show he wants out of Spurs this summer.
Failing this, in summary:
* One player of note has left the club, in a deal that Spurs are OK with.
* One player of note has not yet signed a new contract, but may well do so eventually.
* One player has expressed some unhappiness, but has not been fit to play for many months.
* Many players have signed new contracts in the last 12 months.
* Spurs finished higher last season than the season before (which in turn was better than the season before that).
* Our new stadium continues apace and will be ready for games less than 12 months.
* Additional academy players are being successfully brought into the first team squad.
And all this equates to "Clearly the situation over the last year or so has worsened at Spurs"
Where did Dier openly state he wanted to leave, just curious? I'm not saying some Spurs players want more money but this notion that everyone wants to leave is a bit over the top. Lloris, are most senior ream member has came out and defended the clubs and understands the situation. It it was true we would see official bids coming in, transfer requests etc, like at Southampton and Liverpool.
I see. So the Spurs bid of £25m for Martial is true is it? And the stories of United chasing Morata before turning to Lukaku instead are true are they?
PS. I've already said, that I specifically have not based my view of Dier's situation on media stories.
It could be. I've never said either story is true or not. It seems probable Utd were interested in Morata, Mourinho specifically spoke about him after all. I'd say there's a fair chance Martial wants to leave too given he's struggling to get in the team. I'm at a loss as to what any of that has to do with what we were talking about.
Whether you are referring to the media or not isn't really relevant. You're still forming your opinion on second hand information. Unless you're Eric Dier which I'm guessing you're not. Ultimately we have no reason to believe your unnamed source of information has greater knowledge than the several people in the media reporting and neither do you.
In that case perhaps you'd give us the quotes and how these show he wants out of Spurs this summer.
Failing this, in summary:
* One player of note has left the club, in a deal that Spurs are OK with.
Surely you mean Levy is OK with the deal. For Spurs to be happy - as in the fans, the manager and the rest of the playing staff - Levy would have to spend that Walker money on a player of either similar or superior ability. He hasn't done, rather he has pocketed the funds and relied on inferior/unproven replacements
* One player of note has not yet signed a new contract, but may well do so eventually.
He may very well sign eventually, he may very well not. Clearly your point is debatable.
* One player has expressed some unhappiness, but has not been fit to play for many months.
Have no idea how Rose being injured has anything to do with it, or how it makes his outburst suddenly ok. GlastonSpur logic I guess.
* Many players have signed new contracts in the last 12 months.
Yeah, because players don't leave their club's after signing a new contract do they. Think again.
* Spurs finished higher last season than the season before (which in turn was better than the season before that). That's a given, got me there.
* Our new stadium continues apace and will be ready for games less than 12 months.
Has nothing to do with anything, the players couldnt give 2 shits about the new stadium.
* Additional academy players are being successfully brought into the first team squad.
Because Levy is to greedy to spend money See above.
And all this equates to "Clearly the situation over the last year or so has worsened at Spurs"
Yes, clearly Spurs' situation has weakened over the last 12 month's.
Your evidence that Dier wants to leave is based on media stories, yet you somehow just know these to be true .... because you keep saying that he wants to leave. I have not based my notion that United wanted Dier on media stories ... in fact I haven't even mentioned such stories. But you've assumed otherwise.
Re. Rose I said he's spoken of wanting to go back up north at some point. I've also said that IMO he'd leave this summer if a good offer came in that Spurs accepted, but isn't (IMO) that unhappy about staying for another year. So where's the big problem? In another year he may want to stay, or if not we'll probably do fine without him, just as we did for the major part of last season.
Comparing the gap between Walker and Trippier to that between Ronaldo and Valencia is ridiculous beyond words and not worth responding to further.
I wasn't talking about youth players that we might bring through. Instead I'm referring to youth players that we have brought through and are bringing through - e.g. Winks and Walker-Peters. Moreover, it's absurd for you to question whether "the players you've got have definitely improved" ... the improvement of Alli, Kane, Trippier, Dier etc etc is abundantly clear for all to see.
And then onto your final absurd point: "How have you shown that progression this year? You've had one game in which you struggled to break down a promoted team until they went one man down."
FFS, we've played one game, which we won, and you're demanding to see the evidence of progression this season?
You might at least wait for 6 or 7 games to elapse before deciding that Spurs are in decline.RE Dier, I cant prove it either way. I have read reports that suggested as much and I'm a firm believer in the whole "no smoke without fire" thing. I could be wrong, but consider it unlikely all things considered.
I never said all Spurs players wanted to leave, just a few who are seemingly unhappy with the way in which your club is run - as in wage structure and/or sub par contracts, lack of ambition shown in the transfer market, no reward in the way of trophies/medals etc. Most will remain content for the rest of the season, but will undoubtdly re-assess the situation come the end of May. Should Spurs fail to win a trophy, or the wage structure at the club has no been revised by the chairman, we may very well see them request a move. It's not beyond the realm of possibilities given the circumstances at the club right now.
My absurd point that you actually made first? Brilliant Glaston. You are a real special breed.
Your points are weak in the extreme, so weak that I can't be bothered to reply to them all. But I'll pick just one example:
The suggestion is that Spurs - the club - is in a worse state now than 12 months ago, when we had just finished in 3rd place.
You take the fact that many Spurs players have signed new contracts in the last 12 months and refute this as part of the evidence that Spurs are not in worse state, because they might theoretically still be sold in the next 2 weeks
I have suggestion, why you don't wait until the window has closed and then see if the likes of Alli and Kane etc are all still with Spurs
Which absurd point did you have in mind? You made so many ....
Absurd in your opinion pal. Luckily for me, your opinion holds little to no weight, so tiny digs won't bother me.
I'm talking about this season. I always have been. You said you've made progress, just like you had the year before and the year before that. I said show me the progress you made this season.
Now I'll spell it out for you. If I'm talking about this season and you say you've made progress, I'd be completely correct to assume you're talking about this season as well. Hence, me asking you to prove the progress you've made this season.
Furthermore, my assumption that you're talking about this season is strengthened as, in the same paragraph, you bring up Kyle Walker Peters and cite him being man of the match in a match this season. Now please help me just confirm one last time, you are talking about this season, right? Because KWP hasn't played for you before this season, has he? That was his league debut, right? So you can only be talking about this season when you talk about the progress, right? So me asking you to back up that claim isn't 'absurd'.
Your points are weak in the extreme, so weak that I can't be bothered to reply to them all. But I'll pick just one example:
The suggestion is that Spurs - the club - is in a worse state now than 12 months ago, when we had just finished in 3rd place.
You take the fact that many Spurs players have signed new contracts in the last 12 months and refute this as part of the evidence that Spurs are not in worse state, because they might theoretically still be sold in the next 2 weeks
I have suggestion, why you don't wait until the window has closed and then see if the likes of Alli and Kane etc are all still with Spurs
So instead of responding to the points made in my post, you call them weak and then attempt to convince me that you can't be bothered to answer them? That or you simply have no answer, not such that will win you the debate in any case.
I'd come to expect better from you in all honesty.
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No I didn't. I haven't even used the word "progress" concerning this season. It would be absurd to claim progress this season on the basis of one game, just as it's absurd for you to demand evidence of progress based on one game ... even setting aside the fact that we won.
The particular discussion point instead - as you well know - was about the claim that Spurs are in a worse state than 12 months ago. And I've given a list of reasons why Spurs are clearly not in a worse state. This has nothing to do with the absurdity of discussing whether or not, on the basis of a single game, Spurs are making progress this season.
I cited Walker-Peters merely as part of the evidence that we continue to bring through players from our academy, just as we did with Winks last season, in a continuation of a policy that's been working well for us. He did very well in his first match, but who yet knows how he'll develop from here. In any case, his chances to play will be limited once Trippier is fit again.
Aren't you contradicting yourself right from the start? You say you don't agree that United were after Dier ... and then you say that United wanted to buy him
Concerning Rose, I haven't said that there "is no issue at all". Given his comments I'm sure he'd be happy to leave if another club (that he was willing to go to) were to offer him higher wages. But failing that, or if Spurs were to refuse to sell him even despite such an offer, I also think that he's not that unhappy about staying for another summer - pace his comments about wanting to go back up north "at some point".
Concerning Walker, I didn't dispute that he wanted to leave, so why imply otherwise? I simply said that Spurs were OK about letting him go, which I think is a fair point given the surrounding circumstances I've cited.
Then you come back to talking about 3 players wanting out (Walker, Rose and Dier), but present no evidence that Dier wants to leave.
Then you move onto Walker-Peters, as if saying that he's a downgrade on Walker is some big point, when he's clearly not even intended to be Walker's replacement this season. Re. Trippier, the difference in overall quality compared to Walker is fairly marginal IMO - and the difference is not worth forgoing £50m for. And by the way, £50m does not need "twisting" into a positive - it's clearly a very large sum of money for a wingback.
Next, when you said "The clear trend this summer is that players want to play for United", the clear implication was that players do not want to play for Spurs ... and it's disingenuous of you to now pretend otherwise.
Next, you say "my point about you being in a worse state this summer than last has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with where you finished last season". In my view that's ridiculous. The players have progressed compared last summer and have seen that progression (just as they did compared to season before that). Moreover, we've lost one player of note, will sign 2 or 3 new players, have/will bring more talented academy players into the squad and with any luck will have Lamela back for most of the season (unlike last season).
Against this backdrop, having Rose express some unhappy thoughts is relatively unimportant and certainly doesn't amount to Spurs being "in a worse state" than last summer.
Seeing as I've established that you were talking about this season, are you actually kidding? It's insufferable.
That delusion setting in again?
You are the one who is insufferable.
I said that the players in general have progressed "compared to last summer" .... which clearly they have since we finished 2nd rather than 3rd.
Which means I've talking about progression over the last 12 months - i.e. during the course of last season. Geddit?
This has bugger all to do with my allegedly claiming progression this fecking season.
I can't disagree with what you say at all, but I will say we are a club who has to cut our cloth to fit.its not as easy to say we're not showing ambition if we can't afford to do it in the way United, Chelsea or City do. I'm still convinced we will invest before September the first. We have to wait and see if it pays off.
Your comeback is excellent. Did you think of it yourself?
You should've said what you meant then. You should've said last season, not last summer. Last summer means you're comparing against this summer. What you meant was last season compared to the season before. Then I'd have agreed with you.
It still wouldn't counter my initial claim about you being worse off this summer than last summer.
I did say what I meant. You even quoted itself yourself: "compared to last summer". And then for bizarre reasons best known to yourself you went off on a rant about the one game of this season so far, absurdly demanding to see evidence of progress.
You honestly can't see your mistake? Its basic comprehension.
I said you're worse off this summer.
You said you've made progress compared to last summer.
That means you're better off this summer than last.
You know what, you're right Glaston. It's everyone else who's wrong.
Sure there is still time, you never know what's around the corner. Spurs are notoriously slow in the transfer market anyway.
And I'm aware of the money issues at Spurs, particularly in comparison to the richer clubs. But there are a few decent and gettable targets still available whom won't cost the earth, Sessegnon looks made for Spurs, Dembele of Celtic would be great cover for Kane and obviously Barkley is close.
FFS. I said the players have progressed since last summer. They have: last summer we had just finished in 3rd place. Guess where we finished during the season following last summer ...
But don't tell me, I suppose in your weird world, finishing 2nd rather than 3rd means they went backwards
FFS. I said the players have progressed since last summer. They have: last summer we had just finished in 3rd place. Guess where we finished during the season following last summer ...
But don't tell me, I suppose in your weird world, finishing 2nd rather than 3rd means they went backwards
Okay, I see the confusion.
I meant this summer as preparation for the coming (now current) season, you meant this summer as to what they achieved last year. Apologies for the confusion.
Riveting stuff, guys. What's Summer though? Is it May, June, July? Or June, July, August? The whole thing is a real conundrum.
If you're in England, it isn't anything.
Most sensible thing you've said all night, Bubz.
Sessegnon seems to have turned us down at the start of the window as he wants to stay where he is and Celtic's Dembele apparently failed a medical with us prior to leaving Fulham. Don't really know how true that is.
Direct quotes that do not back your naritive up.
You may not have said he was ostracised but yes you implied it, given the clod shoulder you said and thats exactly what it means and do not be back tracking now. So now you want to portray the naritive that rose who complained at not being paid enough is only not being paid enough because he is injured. Becasue surely the only reason he is frustrated is because he is injured and has nothing to do with the lack of money being paid to him and lets face it other spurs players.
And somehow he would never feel like this if he was never injuered and thats the real source of his frustration. What a load of bs that is, nobody is swallowing that or do you just believe any bullshit you read if its from spurs.
And oh way to go and spin a point for your own purposes. But let me simplify it for you as you seem to consistantly get this and many other points wrong in many many posts i seen of yours.
The man who complained and went public, (have you got that so far?) who is now being ostracised(accordign to your ITK) by the other players. Is now happy not to go public and stays silent about the false(accordingto you) reports that he was applauded by the other players(as you said never happened). He is happy to stay silent at being treated badly by the other players and "put up n shut up". Unless you think players being ignored by their fellow team mates is actually being treated nicely.(I can assure you its not)
But then you finsih off by saying he deserves this and the club are right because he should not be telling the truth because he is not allowed the freedom of speach, that, unfortunately, you over exercise here.
Well let me tell you this... I dont know what world you want your kids to grow up in but i hope when they stand up to change things for the better. They dont have to deal with such narrow mindedness as you have shown here. Because i bet you 100 to 1 right now your advice to them if they were being paid below what they could get for the exact same job else where. Would be to change jobs!
But then according to you they should just shut up and put up... what a world that would be.
So what exactly is criteria of playing at the highest level? Top 2 in the league? Top 4? What exactly is it?
I've no idea where you get all this muddled nonsense from.
I have never said - or implied - that Rose's wages are linked to his long injury lay-off. How could they be, when his wages were fixed in a new contract he signed several months before he got injured?
I am saying, as Lloris said, that a part of Rose's frustration is probably due to his long injury lay-off, a frustration that his spilled over and fed into to his recent outburst about wages and wanting to go back up north at some point. Doubtless he also feels that he should be paid more - a view that he probably shares with 80% or more of all the footballers in the Prem. And doubtless he thinks that he could get higher wages elsewhere, which he probably could. But it was his choice to sign a new contract, so he can't both have his cake and eat it.
You seem not to be aware of how football clubs are run - and how they have to be run. Included in player contracts are clauses relating to things that need to be authorised by the club, including media interviews. Players do not have "freedom of speech" to slag off the club they play for (the club that pays them their wages) ... or at least not without expecting to receive disciplinary consequences.
You finish off by attempting to draw some muddled parallel between football players on contracts and non-footballers working as employees. There is no parallel. For starters, most non-footballers working as employees do not get paid £65,000 per week. Most do not get paid that amount in an entire year. Most do not get paid that in an entire two years.
PS. I have not said that Rose is "being treated badly" by the others players (that's your weird version of what I said). I said that his return to the squad, following the interview, was not a warm embrace, but better characterised as a cold-shoulder. But as Lloris said, Rose has apologised, and it's now done over and done with. There is no "ostracisation" of Rose and I never suggested that there is.
Losing to Gent and never winning trophies is clearly the highest achievable level.
Don't forget getting embarrassed in Europe every time. I think they have won only 1 ko round in Europe in 3 years.
You are talking absoloute bollox again gaston
All is clear as crystal... you are just muddying the water because applying simple logic proved you were caught out talkin crap as always.
You distinctly stated that his frustrations are cause by his lack of playing due to injury and quoted lloris to back up your claim. He, himself, Rose clearly stated he wants to be paid what hes worth. Nothing else! Becaue spurs do not pay their players enough.
See there is your naritive, frustrated at not playing. Thats like saying i like to drive to work but i walk the dogs on tuesdays. One thing has nothing to do to the other... SO WHY QUOTE IT? There is no mention of the issues Rose raised.
Yer beat
Can anyone summarise the last 29 pages for me or is it just people arguing with Glaston?
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