Guys, leave Glaston alone. 
Danny Rose | Rose: "I will play up North before I retire"
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Him being dead would pretty much put the brakes on any possible transfer I admit.
Good post, but I'm not convinced Shaw if I am perfectly honest, I know he was good at a young age, but people develop at different ages and it was no guarantee he would continue to improve. And sometimes players aren't the same after their injury, and with all the talk of off the pitch issues I wouldn't want us to sign Shaw, just like I wouldn't want Wilshere. Rose's main role for us is to stretch the play, and he did get some goals last season as well despite his long injury, for me he was the best LB in the league last season when he was fit, and despite perhaps being replaceable, I wouldn't want to do that this late in the window, if at all.
Only if he bends the knee.
I think Alan Shearer actually makes a great point here. I'd completely forgotten that Rose signed a new contract less than a year ago.
Wages haven't increased by that great a margin in the past 11 months (of which Rose has played very little of it because of his injury). He hasn't become a much greater lb in the past 11 months (he was already one of the best Lbs in the league when he signed the contract).
Who forced him to sign that contract? And what has changed in the past 11 months that has suddenly meant that his wage is now so insulting to him?
No I wouldn't. But I also wouldn't take a pay rise happily (when my position to leave my job for another, better paid job is greater on the signing of that new contract), spend much of the next year on sick leave and then attack my employers publicly and suggest (even partly) that I want to be paid more.
I've already said earlier in the thread that some of the stuff he said is not unreasonable but as I said, I'd forgotten about his recent contract. If he hadn't signed it, he'd now be only 2 years away from the end of his contract and be in a very strong position regarding going elsewhere if that is what he wanted.
Spurs are basically in a Southampton situation, you overachieve on the pitch comparative to your financial clout and suddenly the money these players want as a reward isn't feasibly within reach and they start looking at the bigger clubs.
Let's assume that Spurs have a similar season as last year and the players still buy in to the 'project' for the 18/19 season, how much longer is it going to take for them to catch up with the other top clubs (commercial revenue being the biggest disparity) in order for them to pay these players what they want long-term?
It just doesn't seem viable. Seems obvious to me at some point you're looking at an exodus... if Spurs have a worse season then last then it could be as soon as the summer. Rose comments are bound to have got a few others like Alli, Eriksen, Alderweireld in the squad thinking as well whether Spurs fans like it or not.
Let's assume that Spurs have a similar season as last year and the players still buy in to the 'project' for the 18/19 season, how much longer is it going to take for them to catch up with the other top clubs (commercial revenue being the biggest disparity) in order for them to pay these players what they want long-term?
It just doesn't seem viable. Seems obvious to me at some point you're looking at an exodus... if Spurs have a worse season then last then it could be as soon as the summer. Rose comments are bound to have got a few others like Alli, Eriksen, Alderweireld in the squad thinking as well whether Spurs fans like it or not.
Probably his mate walker told him how much he's on at city and turned his head.
The Spurs situation summed up in a nutshell.
Yep, next summer mate. And when we get to next summer, it'll then become the summer after that ... just as this summer was "next summer" in the various dire predictions a year ago.
Hopefully Alli kicks up a fuss, I'd love him here.
Why are you denying this? I'm not exactly gloating about it I've got nothing against Spurs, but seriously how long do you think the players are going to stay if you're not winning trophies, or even if you are but they're not on United/Chelsea/Ctiy wages when they know they could be? Really?A few seasons yeah, 'cos they genuinely might be invested in the club and the project and willing to wait. It's already been a few seasons for some. This is season 4 of Pochettino. How much longer is Alli for example, going to be at Spurs on 80k-100k a week or whatever regardless of what success the club is having if he can earn 200k at one of the aforementioned clubs?
You're seriously delusional if you don't think this is the way it's heading, unless Spurs find unprecedented rise in commercial revenue. The new stadium isn't going to make that much difference, you aren't suddenly gonna move there and be able to pay your best players what they want, not even close.
Lot of variables with Spurs at the minute Glaston especially adapting to Wembley so I wouldnt be so dismissive.
I think we just need to accept that Spurs will always be in the ascendency and that they are impervious to the market factors that affect every other club in the world.
This seems to be the long and the short of it. Kyle Walker is an example. He said leaving was about winning trophies and that's no doubt part of it, but if someone offers to double (or in some cases probably triple) your wages then it's a no brainer. Football is a short career and players know what other players (even those they may consider themselves better than) are getting.
The idea of "overachieving" does a massive disservice to the players. After a season or two you're just "achieving" and those players will feel that they should be paid properly in comparison other players. Eventually Spurs will have a choice with a lot of these players - either pay them what they'll get elsewhere or be put under massive pressure to let them go or lose them for free when their contracts expire.
The madness in football will do them no favours whatsoever because players wages seem to be growing like the transfer fees. How long till a PSG, Real, Barca or a top club in England come along with a £350k - £400k a week deal for Kane or Alli?
You also wonder if the Martial bid rumours were true since he'd doubtless want top money (and indeed may already be getting that here given how much he cost) to even consider it and I can't see that going down well with players who already feel they are underpaid and that the club should be rewarding them rather than chasing other bodies. The Rose comments would seem to give an insight into how at least some of the players feel.
You're a broken record at this point, stop embarrassing yourself; boasting about your non-existent achievements. Come back and bluster once your great club has in fact won something, until then you really ought to stay quiet with your feckin 'but we finished above United trophy'. You're starting to come across like a fool. Nobody gives a rat's arse Spurs finished second. Not now, not next summer, or the summer after that, Capiche?
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Nobody forced him to sign it but he's clearly been offered a lot more to play elsewhere. Unfortunately contracts mean little these days and that's how modern football works. It's no different to what Spurs and countless other PL clubs do in picking off players down the food chain by offering bigger pay packets.
Rose is arguably the best left back in the PL, at a time 1) when fullbacks are becoming extremely important in new systems being deployed by the top managers; and 2) good players in that position are at a premium. He want's to cash in, like the vast majority of people in the same position would.
Its no coincidence that the top clubs pay top money because they generally have the best players. That's just market forces.
While I think you are right, that's a bit sad isn't it. Essentially unless you get a sugar daddy there isn't much hope cuz you cannot grow organically as somebody else will keep picking you off.
Isnt that also the situtaion Leicester found themselves in after winning the league? How did they handle it?
It is. As a neutral it's not the type of situation I enjoy seeing, it would be great to see a Spurs or somebody outside of the huge clubs win the league and that be the catalyst for them joining their elk in terms of stature and revenue and therefore being able to compete year-on-year, but unfortunately it just doesn't seem to work out that way.
Casuals around the world are still going to support United over Spurs regardless of whether United come 4th and Spurs win the league or not, sponsors are most likely still going to be knocking on United's door for commercial partnership over Spurs. It's unfortunate but it just seems the way it is, really. What clubs have we seen grow organically to a point where they've now competitive yearly for major trophies? The likes of City, PSG, Chelsea in reality all bought their way there, able to build superstar teams with wages subsidized by wealthy owners. Maybe the only one I can really even remotely think of it Athletico maybe.
Yeah totally similar situation for me, and as you say look where it's got them. They were Premier League champions and still the best players they could attract/afford were the likes of Nampalys Mendy, Ahmed Musa, Islam Slimani. Would you expect to see United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal exclusively buy that level of player if they win the league? And Kante is a perfect example in itself. Leicester just win the league, he gets major plaudits, they are probably saying to him as well as others 'stay with us, we can build on this' yet he gets a sniff at a much bigger club and much bigger money with probably in his mind once he weighs it up - even despite the totally opposite seasons Leicester and Chelsea had just had - a bigger chance to win the PL again and compete for the CL in the future and he's off, and I don't think you can blame him.
To be fair they had much less players in their squad that other team would really want and they sold their best.
Oh deer!
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They only sold Kante didn't they? Vardy turned down Arsenal and Mahrez is still trying to escape
They only sold Kante didn't they? Vardy turned down Arsenal and Mahrez is still trying to escape
Yeah but they were kind of fortunate they only had one Kante... Mahrez didn't attract the interest he was hoping (I can't remember any firm bids for him that summer?) and Vardy probably knew his level/actually showed some loyalty (they still had to pay him near what Arsenal were offering).
They were kind of lucky that the rest of their team was mostly made up of total one-season overachievers like Wes Morgan, Robert Huth, Danny Simpson, Marc Albrighton for the most part, players who no big club was ever going to go after. The only one's you would have expected to go maybe were Kante, Vardy, Drinkwater, Mahrez and Schmeichel, they only received concrete bids for 2 of them and 1 of those left.
He was drunk on MOTD...
Ahhh gaston... Aint it funny how you find other peoples faith in stoies that suit their naritive humurous and yet put so much faith in your own that suits yours? Aint it?
Like a player who didn't care what anybody thought before he did his interview now does because he accepts a lie about it being all sunshine and harmony at spurs. When in actual fact they have ostracised him and he is so happy and content to accept this lie and at his treatment. So at being treated so badly he is now happy to say nothing????
Mr, I dont care what spurs think this is thruth is now Mr, yes sir no sir 3 bags full sir.???? Really?
You have told some good ones on here but not even your own mother would fall for this line of crap.
But the situation has changed a lot at Spurs since last summer. Walker wanted to leave and left. Dier wants to leave. Rose wants to leave. 3 of your starting XI from last season have been fairly open about wanting to leave. That's quite a high percentage. I don't remember many (if any at all) situations where 3 players all wanted to leave a club so openly at the same time. Especially a club that is seemingly so close to something decent. Challenging, but not winning anything, is only acceptable for a little while.
What if the same happens next season? 3 more regulars want to leave, on top of Rose and Dier who've had to stay this summer. It isn't a good look and it isn't a way to run the club.
You took a lot of pleasure over our perils over the last few seasons about how we're on a downward spiral and Spurs are on the up, but players are jumping ship at Spurs (or at least want to, which is just as bad) whereas Lukaku and Matic (and even Dier if reports are to be believed) were desperate to come to us.
Can you see that maybe possibly the 'trend' is changing? We've got a manager who is used to winning and has won more here in 1 season than Spurs in the last 10? And you've got a manager who hasn't won anything? And is starting to create a trend where you come so close but keep failing.
The clear trend this summer is that players want to play for United and want to leave Spurs. That's got to hurt, especially after you've spent the last 4 years convincing yourself, sorry us, that United we're going down and Spurs were marching on.
I know this is the wrong thread but I reckon Mahrez would do well here. He feels like one of those players that would step it up at a bigger club, could be wrong though.They only sold Kante didn't they? Vardy turned down Arsenal and Mahrez is still trying to escape
My post - the one that you've replied to - simply points to a situation in which we've largely kept our developing squad together, despite all the predictions to the contrary, just as we did last summer. That's not "bluster" - it's fact.
And then you jump in with your rant about league table positions
You may not like it (and some United fans clearly don't like it) that Spurs have not had our best players poached away - and it may be a source of continuing bafflement to some United fans as to how this can have happened - but I can only suggest that you calm down and accept it.
I don't accept several of your premises. Dier doesn't want to leave - and there is zero evidence to contrary. And IF Rose wants to leave this summer, then it's baffling that he specifically said otherwise, failed to put in a transfer request and then apologised for his comments.
So all in all, I just don't accept that "... the situation has changed a lot at Spurs since last summer" (by which you imply changed for the worse).
Since last summer we've finished one place higher in the league table (with a lot more points), successfully brought some additional academy players into the first team squad - Harry Winks and now Kyle Walker-Peters - and were OK about selling a player (Walker) for a lot of money in a position where we already have a ready-made and very able replacement (Trippier). In my book that all adds up to a net gain since last summer - not a decline. So I don't see any downward "changing trend", but quite the opposite.
You say "The clear trend this summer is that players want to play for United". That's fine, but will you say the same about players that may sign for Spurs before the window closes ... or will you somehow place a different take on that?
You seem to be confident that that United will this time finish above Spurs, which is also fine. But whether that actually happens remains to be seen does it not?
I gave direct quotes from Lloris. The media stories gave no quotes, but simply spun a convenient narrative.
Nor did I say that the squad have ostracised Rose, simply that his interview was not well received by his team-mates. And nor did I say that Rose was "happy and content" - apart from anything else he hasn't played a game in many, many months and clearly, as Lloris indicated, his frustrations have built up.
Finally, the notion that Rose has been "treated badly" is laughable. He happily signed a new and improved contract, then got injured a few months later and hasn't played since. He got his knuckled rapped for giving that interview, fully deserved to have them rapped and could have expected nothing less.
I didn't predict anything, I tend to keep predictions to myself as I believe it is a safer practise unlike some other posters. I couldn't care less whether you are keeping your best players or not, only Tottenham Hotspur and their supporters should care about that. I support Manchester United and I care about what happens at our club and to our players, not Tottenham Hotspur. For all I care you can keep all your players, it's not my concern.My post - the one that you've replied to - simply points to a situation in which we've largely kept our developing squad together, despite all the predictions to the contrary, just as we did last summer. That's not "bluster" - it's fact.
And then you jump in with your rant about league table positions
You may not like it (and some United fans clearly don't like it) that Spurs have not had our best players poached away - and it may be a source of continuing bafflement to some United fans as to how this can have happened - but I can only suggest that you calm down and accept it.
At least I don't waste my time arguing on Spurs forums; praising United, updating Spurs fans on a daily basis that all the lads love each other and that the squad harmony is great (even though I don't know any of the feckers personally), how many trophies we have won, etc, etc.
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A few seasons yeah, 'cos they genuinely might be invested in the club and the project and willing to wait. It's already been a few seasons for some. This is season 4 of Pochettino. How much longer is Alli for example, going to be at Spurs on 80k-100k a week or whatever regardless of what success the club is having if he can earn 200k at one of the aforementioned clubs?
You're seriously delusional if you don't think this is the way it's heading, unless Spurs find unprecedented rise in commercial revenue. The new stadium isn't going to make that much difference, you aren't suddenly gonna move there and be able to pay your best players what they want, not even close.
The new stadium will boost our income by somewhere in the range of 40 - 50% (compared to our income in our last published accounts). That's a very significant jump by any standards and will clearly make a very big difference.
Every f*cking thread in here....
What's interesting about you, and you do this constantly, is how you twist certain narratives to suit your point then complain if others do the same. You said it's clear United were after Dier. Well, I don't agree with your premise and theres zero evidence to suggest otherwise. Dier wanted to leave as much as Man United wanted to buy him. Funnily enough, you agree with one and disagree with the other, although the evidence for both is much of the same.
You talk like the only way to show you want to leave a club is a transfer request. Ronaldo never handed in a transfer request but he clearly wanted to leave. Neither did De Gea and I'm willing to state that he wanted to leave that summer.
"Rose specifically said otherwise." Okay. But he also criticises your club in a way I don't think I've seen by any other player before. He really has a big dig at you and said he wants to play in the north at some point. He was (is?) clearly unhappy. But because he did the diplomatic thing and apologised, there's no issue at all and he doesn't want to leave. Another time you've picked and chose what you want to focus on to suit yourself.
Maybe he apologised because he was alienated by the squad. But that doesn't suit your point. Fact is, we don't know his motivation behind apologising. Maybe Spurs told him they're not selling him and he has no other option. Which alludes to my original post about him wanting to leave but being forced to stay. Its not a good long-term model to keep unhappy players. And it isn't just one player. It was 3 this season.
Then you change other narratives. You were happy to sell Walker. Okay, great. I never contended that point. What I said was he wanted to leave and there's no contention at all about that. Another example of you bringing points in to suit your argument that have no real bearing on what I actually said.
Again, my point about you being in a worse state this summer than last has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with where you finished last season. You bang this drum about your league finishes. You have done brilliantly and been exciting to watch at the same time. I honestly commend that. But it had nothing to do with me talking about players wanting to leave (openly, imo) and how that situation could potentially exacerbate soon. The trend is worrying, but you can twist it however you want to make yourself feel better.
If 3 of our players were so open about wanting to leave us this summer, I wouldn't feel great. Kyle Walker Peters did great at the weekend. He's a downgrade on Walker. Trippier is very good, but he isn't in contention for best RB in the league, like Walker is. Again, a downgrade. But you can twist that to however you want. You made a profit on Walker right. There you go, I twisted it into a positive for you.
Then we move on to something else you do a lot of. Assume and then use your assumption as concrete evidence at some point.
If and when Spurs sign some players this summer, it will be because they wanted to sign for you. Once again, this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what I said. Did I ever say those players wouldn't want to play for Spurs? Nope. Did I say that it was pretty clear that 3 players have been open about leaving Spurs? Yes.
I know, I know. You don't buy that premise. To reiterate, I firmly believe you don't believe that premise because you don't want to. I'm not sure if it's a delusion or a genuine belief, but the way you twist scenarios to suit yourself is almost an art.
And what even is your last paragraph? Another assumption and then say that remains to be seen. Well, yes, it does remain to be seen. For 2 reasons. 1. I never said it and
2. The season is one game old. Of course we don't know if United will finish above Spurs.
I wonder (here's one of my own) if Spurs finish 3rd and with lower points this season, that you'll say Spurs have gone backwards. Or will you say that it's because United and City (let's assume it's us 2 who finish above you) spent more and therefore should finish above you. Because you've spent the last few years talking purely about league position, then when you no longer have that, it'll become about money and net spend or just spend in general. So, conveniently, you have your excuses ready to go for a few years yet mate. Just a shame how they'll contradict all you've gone on about over the last 3 years.
#Bubz27 all I can say is brilliant, I do not intend to read the certain reply because we all know what to expect, total respect to you.
Can't Spurs just raise their wages?
Sell Sissoko for 20M and give about another 20-30K a week for the next couple of years to their 8-10 core players who might be tapped up(Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Wanyama, Rose, Alderweild, Vertonghen, Dier, Lloris).
They would probably need to replace Sissoko with a midfielder, but there's gotta be a cheap replacement some scout at Spurs likes, and we're talking about Sissoko, not a good player. Seems worth the gamble on some player playing well in a small league or a loanee from another team who wouldn't require a serious fee.
Sell Sissoko for 20M and give about another 20-30K a week for the next couple of years to their 8-10 core players who might be tapped up(Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Wanyama, Rose, Alderweild, Vertonghen, Dier, Lloris).
They would probably need to replace Sissoko with a midfielder, but there's gotta be a cheap replacement some scout at Spurs likes, and we're talking about Sissoko, not a good player. Seems worth the gamble on some player playing well in a small league or a loanee from another team who wouldn't require a serious fee.
Aren't you contradicting yourself right from the start? You say you don't agree that United were after Dier ... and then you say that United wanted to buy him
Concerning Rose, I haven't said that there "is no issue at all". Given his comments I'm sure he'd be happy to leave if another club (that he was willing to go to) were to offer him higher wages. But failing that, or if Spurs were to refuse to sell him even despite such an offer, I also think that he's not that unhappy about staying for another summer - pace his comments about wanting to go back up north "at some point".
Concerning Walker, I didn't dispute that he wanted to leave, so why imply otherwise? I simply said that Spurs were OK about letting him go, which I think is a fair point given the surrounding circumstances I've cited.
Then you come back to talking about 3 players wanting out (Walker, Rose and Dier), but present no evidence that Dier wants to leave.
Then you move onto Walker-Peters, as if saying that he's a downgrade on Walker is some big point, when he's clearly not even intended to be Walker's replacement this season. Re. Trippier, the difference in overall quality compared to Walker is fairly marginal IMO - and the difference is not worth forgoing £50m for. And by the way, £50m does not need "twisting" into a positive - it's clearly a very large sum of money for a wingback.
Next, when you said "The clear trend this summer is that players want to play for United", the clear implication was that players do not want to play for Spurs ... and it's disingenuous of you to now pretend otherwise.
Next, you say "my point about you being in a worse state this summer than last has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with where you finished last season". In my view that's ridiculous. The players have progressed compared last summer and have seen that progression (just as they did compared to season before that). Moreover, we've lost one player of note, will sign 2 or 3 new players, have/will bring more talented academy players into the squad and with any luck will have Lamela back for most of the season (unlike last season).
Against this backdrop, having Rose express some unhappy thoughts is relatively unimportant and certainly doesn't amount to Spurs being "in a worse state" than last summer.
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