Dan Ashworth - Garden ready | Back to football with United | use thread in United forum

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Berbaclass said:
Some more completely rational and normal takes:





























:wenger::lol:
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Hahaa, yes, we're the horrible club for pushing our generationally talented young striker out for his horrific behaviour. NUFC on the other hand are a bastion of the community, all the way up to the top of their spotless, not at all oil drenched club..

Where was that photo of the geordie sheiks again ..
 
I love how everyone is now an expert on contract law there now. Going off a hunch, it's only a hunch mind you, I reckon Ineos' legal team will know more on that than a random geordie.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I don't think this is actually what he does FYI, he's oversees and builds the departments - I don't know how hands on he is with identifying players. At Brighton that was Paul Winstanely (now at Chelsea) and at Newcastle it's Nickson. It also depends how advanced our data project is given that is where Brighton's strength lay, in Star lizard. Basically, Ashworth isn't coming in and saying x, y and z are our targets for players, he is doing that for staff.
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Yes. But in his absence who would do that? Any of the people involved in the Mount/Anthony/Onana transfers? <shudder>

It may be that we have a head of recruitment already lined up in the next few days that will be coming in, but time is moving on and anyone good is likely to have their own gardening leave problems.

In the absence of a good new Head of Recruitment and with INEOS saying in numerous forums that recruitment is the first thing they are going to get a handle on you've got to assume that Ashworth is going to be involved in it more than he would hopefully be in subsequent years.
 
Paul778 said:
Yes. But in his absence who would do that? Any of the people involved in the Mount/Anthony/Onana transfers? <shudder>

It may be that we have a head of recruitment already lined up in the next few days that will be coming in, but time is moving on and anyone good is likely to have their own gardening leave problems.

In the absence of a good new Head of Recruitment and with INEOS saying in numerous forums that recruitment is the first thing they are going to get a handle on you've got to assume that Ashworth is going to be involved in it more than he would hopefully be in subsequent years.
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We already have a massive scouting team so would assume they will still operate as normal. Not sure Onana is a bad transfer and Mount is a bit unknown.

I doubt he’ll be hands on, he’ll just set it all up and keep evolving it. Otherwise it’s just Glazer management all over again, putting someone like Murtough into a role he’s not done before, because he was good at something else. 100% he’ll be giving staff targets to the club already but not picking players.
 
Downie was on a Utd fan channel yesterday (I know) and he thinks they will reach a compromise. His gut feeling is that he won't be here until the January window unless Utd stump up enough.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
20 signatures so far, bless him.
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Starting petition like that is truely pathetic, I always though Newcastle had a good loyal fanbase but some of the stuff theyve done in recent times like punching Police Horses and filming themselves chanting about the Munich Air Disaster outside St James Park has put them in a whole new light and show just how horrible a lot of them are.
 
DJ_21 said:
Roy Keane made a good point. He isn’t very loyal is he. Leaves clubs within a couple of years. Who’s to say he won’t join Madrid or something in a year or 2.
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He might, and if that were to be a move upwards for him then fair play to him. At the very least within those two years he will have put the hierarchy in place and have people working around him that know those inner workings, whilst it's a mid to long term project that a DOF tak
tomaldinho1 said:
I don't think this is actually what he does FYI, he's oversees and builds the departments - I don't know how hands on he is with identifying players. At Brighton that was Paul Winstanely (now at Chelsea) and at Newcastle it's Nickson. It also depends how advanced our data project is given that is where Brighton's strength lay, in Star lizard. Basically, Ashworth isn't coming in and saying x, y and z are our targets for players, he is doing that for staff.
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Plenty of Q&A's with him online where he describes all aspects of the role. He doesn't specifically go out and pick targets, however he has a veto alongside all those involved in the recruitment process and can suggest other targets or a need to see more of the suggested target. Same with the manager, CEO and head of recruitment.
 
Can Newcastle even hire a new DOF as long as Ashworth is serving his notice period? If he has a new job and they have hired someone to do his old job, is the notice period reasonable? Would they really just not hire a DOF for a few years just out of spite?
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Starting petition like that is truely pathetic, I always though Newcastle had a good loyal fanbase but some of the stuff theyve done in recent times like punching Police Horses and filming themselves chanting about the Munich Air Disaster outside St James Park has put them in a whole new light and show just how horrible a lot of them are.
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They’ve always been a bunch of knuckle dragging morons. I don’t know where this narrative came from that they’re a big club with a “great” fan base but it’s utter bollocks.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
They’ve always been a bunch of knuckle dragging morons. I don’t know where this narrative came from that they’re a big club with a “great” fan base but it’s utter bollocks.
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It's the narrative that comes with being a one club city. You hear the same shit with Leeds.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
They’ve always been a bunch of knuckle dragging morons. I don’t know where this narrative came from that they’re a big club with a “great” fan base but it’s utter bollocks.
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You never used to hear or see very much from them though other than the odd moan about Mike Ashley but over the last year or so they all seem to have popped up all over social media constantly wittering on arrogantly about being the richest club in the world and posting complete and utter nonsence about Man Utd in a vain attempt to create a rivalry between us and them.
 
Lemoor said:
Because sports journalists have to eat and they apparently have nothing better to sensationalise.
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I mean this is the crux of it. The media have massively inflated the story, like they do with most things Man Utd, especially in the media age.

The Samuel article about Ashworth, and the Burt article about the morality of selling Greenwood, are the kind of things you'd find in a satirical comic trying to spoof football journalism.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Starting petition like that is truely pathetic, I always though Newcastle had a good loyal fanbase but some of the stuff theyve done in recent times like punching Police Horses and filming themselves chanting about the Munich Air Disaster outside St James Park has put them in a whole new light and show just how horrible a lot of them are.
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Yeah they are an odd bunch that lot.

Blue moon did it better
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tomaldinho1 said:
I love how everyone is now an expert on contract law there now. Going off a hunch, it's only a hunch mind you, I reckon Ineos' legal team will know more on that than a random geordie.
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As someone who is personally knowledgeable about such matters, most of my posts on this matter went ignored on here because they aren’t in line with your fan’s expectations of what you want. They may be factually correct and based on law and precedent, but they don’t match the decided narrative.

Obviously football is tribal; no amount of reasoned debate or explanation of the most basic principles of contract law are of interest to dedicated supporters posting their views - however absurd - to an internet forum.
 
Im surprised Newcastle fans are even upset about this. Unless they genuinely believe they are going to miraculously become a big team again.

I would have thought they’d just be delighted every day with any position above 18th in the league.
 
Im sure this has been said, if on gardening leave, he will be still advising a friend of his who he thinks Utd should buy who will tell some-one at club. He also could set up an account here, tell club his username and post on here, in public, the sheer cheek of it but could be done.
 
galwayfa said:
Im sure this has been said, if on gardening leave, he will be still advising a friend of his who he thinks Utd should buy who will tell some-one at club. He also could set up an account here, tell club his username and post on here, in public, the sheer cheek of it but could be done.
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They don't have internet in the midlands yet do they?
 
galwayfa said:
Im sure this has been said, if on gardening leave, he will be still advising a friend of his who he thinks Utd should buy who will tell some-one at club. He also could set up an account here, tell club his username and post on here, in public, the sheer cheek of it but could be done.
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You know there's more to a DOF than just signing players right?


If the right systems not in place yet, and he doesn't a true grasp of the day to day, he'll be recommending no one.
 
UTAretro said:
As someone who is personally knowledgeable about such matters, most of my posts on this matter went ignored on here because they aren’t in line with your fan’s expectations of what you want. They may be factually correct and based on law and precedent, but they don’t match the decided narrative.

Obviously football is tribal; no amount of reasoned debate or explanation of the most basic principles of contract law are of interest to dedicated supporters posting their views - however absurd - to an internet forum.
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I have a question. Can Newcastle hire a new DOF while they keep Ashworth on garden leave?
 
Laurencio said:
I have a question. Can Newcastle hire a new DOF while they keep Ashworth on garden leave?
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I should imagine so. I would have thought though, that unless they appoint internally, or hire someone currently out of work, they'll have a club demanding money from them in lieu of their chosen one going on gardening leave...

Given how dismissive Howe was of Ashworth I can't imagine he'll be that thrilled about any replacement either.
 
Crimson King said:
I mean this is the crux of it. The media have massively inflated the story, like they do with most things Man Utd, especially in the media age.

The Samuel article about Ashworth, and the Burt article about the morality of selling Greenwood, are the kind of things you'd find in a satirical comic trying to spoof football journalism.
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I was only barely exaggerating. This is a situation that happens dozens of times each year among football clubs, these journos have nothing specific to point to that would suggest that United did anything out of line. Yet they are clutching their pearls and playing pretend like they're part of negotiations and their clickbaity headlines actually influence anything.
 
Laurencio said:
I have a question. Can Newcastle hire a new DOF while they keep Ashworth on garden leave?
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Yes. Legally once gardening leave commences it triggers a notice period and so the position is deemed vacant and the role can be filled without impacting the notice period. If Newcastle want to replace him with an external candidate they will probably be faced with paying some sort of compensation, significant wages and also potentially have to wait for their target to complete a period of gardening leave. Digging their heels in on their demands would be incredibly self destructive in this scenario.

It has also been mentioned a couple of times that Ashworth taking them to court could impact how other employers view him but it is equally fair to say that if Newcastle don't back down here they run the risk of damaging their reputation with the kind of employees they will want to target. If you want to be a big club then the people you will target will naturally be of the caliber where they will have a lot of options. If they see you being petty and punitive towards an employee because he dares to leave they probably won't even pick up the phone to discuss your vacancy. The NUFC fans here seem to think reputation is a one way street in these scenarios and it most definitely is not.

I do think their owners will be more rational though. There is a deal to be done and so both sides will posture for the media and in private they will reach a compromise that probably sees him here in time for the start of next season with a fee well below the asking price paid.
 
Gandalf said:
Yes. Legally once gardening leave commences it triggers a notice period and so the position is deemed vacant and the role can be filled without impacting the notice period. If Newcastle want to replace him with an external candidate they will probably be faced with paying some sort of compensation, significant wages and also potentially have to wait for their target to complete a period of gardening leave. Digging their heels in on their demands would be incredibly self destructive in this scenario.

It has also been mentioned a couple of times that Ashworth taking them to court could impact how other employers view him but it is equally fair to say that if Newcastle don't back down here they run the risk of damaging their reputation with the kind of employees they will want to target. If you want to be a big club then the people you will target will naturally be of the caliber where they will have a lot of options. If they see you being petty and punitive towards an employee because he dares to leave they probably won't even pick up the phone to discuss your vacancy. The NUFC fans here seem to think reputation is a one way street in these scenarios and it most definitely is not.

I do think their owners will be more rational though. There is a deal to be done and so both sides will posture for the media and in private they will reach a compromise that probably sees him here in time for the start of next season with a fee well below the asking price paid.
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Pretty much spot on. They absolutely can do this for the reasons given by Gandalf. The role - in UK employment law - is indeed deemed vacant.
 
One other thing to add about the hypothetical (but extremely unlikely) scenario in which Ashworth sought legal remedy it would be on one of two grounds.

1. Breach of contract - argument would be made that the terms of contract relating to length of notice period were unreasonable on repudiatory grounds.

2. Restraint of trade - possibly the stronger case, but closely entangled with the first. The terms of contract restrict the worker’s freedom of employment unfairly, due to the contract of employment not being of industry norm. Even if it was of industry norm, there is plenty of supportive case law arguing that a contract is unreasonable based on specific circumstances of the special relationship between employer and worker.

Very unlikely though, and 99.9% of these cases are solved behind closed doors through intermediaries (lawyers) and compensation agreed privately. It will simply take a long time so don’t expect to hear anything unless Manchester United want to settle quickly.
 
Gandalf said:
Yes. Legally once gardening leave commences it triggers a notice period and so the position is deemed vacant and the role can be filled without impacting the notice period. If Newcastle want to replace him with an external candidate they will probably be faced with paying some sort of compensation, significant wages and also potentially have to wait for their target to complete a period of gardening leave. Digging their heels in on their demands would be incredibly self destructive in this scenario.

It has also been mentioned a couple of times that Ashworth taking them to court could impact how other employers view him but it is equally fair to say that if Newcastle don't back down here they run the risk of damaging their reputation with the kind of employees they will want to target. If you want to be a big club then the people you will target will naturally be of the caliber where they will have a lot of options. If they see you being petty and punitive towards an employee because he dares to leave they probably won't even pick up the phone to discuss your vacancy. The NUFC fans here seem to think reputation is a one way street in these scenarios and it most definitely is not.

I do think their owners will be more rational though. There is a deal to be done and so both sides will posture for the media and in private they will reach a compromise that probably sees him here in time for the start of next season with a fee well below the asking price paid.
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So basically, they can but it would be detrimental for their finances to do so without agreeing compensation with us?
 
And it would be very long (massive court backlogs, huge amounts of discovery), hugely expensive and with no guarantee of success. And the additional risk of further costs in legal fees.

A court case like this would likely take as long to be heard as the gardening leave would last anyway, with no guarantee of success.
 
Laurencio said:
So basically, they can but it would be detrimental for their finances to do so without agreeing compensation with us?
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If Newcastle appointed a replacement, while continuing to pay Ashworth’s (media reported) salary of £2.5m p.a, Newcastle could also make a legal case under the “principals of fairness” to a court that Manchester United would have to pay some or all of the salary of a replacement employee. Newcastle would have to demonstrate to the court that the new employer (Manchester United) has given them a significant financial burden by having to pay two salaries for the same position.

Again, this is rare and won’t happen. But the legal recourse is there if it all got very messy. Which it won’t.
 
DJ_21 said:
Roy Keane made a good point. He isn’t very loyal is he. Leaves clubs within a couple of years. Who’s to say he won’t join Madrid or something in a year or 2.
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It mainly comes down to two things:
1. Role within the club
2. Pay

Ashworth is able to command a pretty power role at United & what I'm assuming will be a hefty pay because we're desperate and because of his relationship with the new owners & directors.

Doubt Madrid would entertain this.
 
Berbaclass said:
Some more completely rational and normal takes:

"Mind the feckers on that red cafe are as thick as shit."
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They probably meant that as an insult but I see it as more of a compliment. On any given day I'd say we're as thick as pig shit, which is much worse.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Starting petition like that is truely pathetic, I always though Newcastle had a good loyal fanbase but some of the stuff theyve done in recent times like punching Police Horses and filming themselves chanting about the Munich Air Disaster outside St James Park has put them in a whole new light and show just how horrible a lot of them are.
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I love Geordies, most I've met have been pretty decent folk. Granted, they're family so I'll be a bit biased.

But Newcastle United fans? fecking hell. They've turned into that Waynetta Slob character after she wins the lottery, sitting on a golden toilet in the living room telling the butler to wipe her arse.
 
It’s a bit rich in the Newcastle forums they actually giving Ratcliffe stick for avoiding taxes. They should they a looong look in the mirror before criticizing any other owner.
 
Any pictures of his garden yet?
 
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