Terms like that are unenforceable because they are exploitative. Only in Banana republics or evil monarchs would a court rule to enforce such nonsense.
Dan Ashworth - Garden ready | Back to football with United | use thread in United forum
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Gardening leave is a continuation of employment and all employment rights. What you just described would be a fundamental breach of his employment contract.
I don't think there is any face to be saved on our end.
He went to Newcastle, stayed a year and then the day United came calling he handed in his notice. Whether he starts working for us tomorrow, or we have to hire someone to fill in while Newcastle have a strop, we'll be fine and everybody else knows who the big draw in town still is.
If he's on the phone with an old friend, discussing how best to structure the company and suggesting the best roles and people to fill them from the comfort of his home, there is no realistic way he's getting caught doing anything.
Newcastle will know this because he'll have been doing exactly the same thing with them while he was on leave at Brighton. Something they'll be wary of shedding light on by throwing around too many accusations this time round.
It’s part of his contract and these covenants are enforceable so they can stop him working for 20 months. Whether it’s a reasonable restriction is a matter for a court to decide but employees rarely sue their employers over these types of restrictions as future employers will remember this guy as the employee who went to court and might be wary of dealing with you.
He’ll be here for the summer. Papers trying to turn this into a massive storm, probably egged on by Newcastle to try and squeeze as much cash from United - works well for FFP.
Behind closed doors it does not do Newcastle nor United any favours dragging this out.
Behind closed doors it does not do Newcastle nor United any favours dragging this out.
Sir Jim mentioning UK laws in relation to the gardening leave makes me think he already knows how to get around it/make it as cheap as possible. He’s been in the business game long enough
Have any reliable journos said anything about how long it might take until a resolution?
Ratcliffe’s comments and the Newcastle mouthpiece journos comments give the impression that it’s going to take months
Ratcliffe’s comments and the Newcastle mouthpiece journos comments give the impression that it’s going to take months
That’s the thing - this is governed by UK employment laws. There’s no FIFA/UEFA/FA/EPL registration involved here like there is with players who sign 5+ year contracts.
Yeah. This tells us quite clearly you have no idea how this works..
Exactly, Geordie newbie pops up making big boy statements and exposes a complete lack of understanding on the situation, law and mechanics behind gardening leave. Not covering themselves in glory, bit like the club.
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Going rate? Four times as much as you paid Brighton - who probably felt you acted in the best possible way to get him back then. 20m for a non-playing staff/manager is beyond unprecedented. You say his stock has risen since then, but we have heard nothing but him not actually making his mark on Newcastle yet, not being involved in key signings, being pushed aside by Howe and his family member etc.
You keep pointing to the gardening leave clause in his contract, but, as SJR alluded to, that's most likely not legally enforceable at all if contested.
Is he still employed by Newcastle
We would be idiots to pay 20m. I don't believe that will happen at all. In their dreams.
I doubt they can in reality but if they could, theyd have to pay him. When you’re fecked on FFP, a club would have to be complete morons to pay someone not to work for that length of time. It’s acting Billy Big Bollocks with a multi billionaire with decades of business experience and the ability to get the best employment lawyers any time he wants. It ends one way.
Yeah…. I can imagine United being really happy if Ashworth sits on gardening leave for ever instead of pressing the button. That will really help him.
Tsunami of shite it seems
INEOS's first real test.
It's laughable how little people understand gardening leave on here.
When you sign a contract you have a notice period so that if the company sacks you, you have a period of time where you are still working for them and getting paid. This protects you giving you time to find another job. Similarly there is a notice period you give the company if you want to leave, so they can hire a replacement and also transfer any knowledge from you that might be crucial to the running of the company.
So you resign and have to continue working for three months (for example) until you can actually leave.
However, in certain circumstances you don't need to work your full notice period. If both parties agree, it can be shorted or removed completely.
In other circumstances where an individual has intimate knowledge of the strategy of a company, an individual may be asked to stay home during their notice period. They are still being paid as normal but are asked not to work. This is gardening leave. Note that you are officially still employed and cannot take another job without the permission of your employer, in the same way you couldn't before you gave notice.
I've never heard of a notice period/gardening leave lasting as long as 20 months before (other than sportsmen where they are registered with an official body) and this might be where SJR thinks they might catch a break.
However Ashworth is not going to be living hand to mouth. He will be getting his full normal salary all this time for sitting at home.
When you sign a contract you have a notice period so that if the company sacks you, you have a period of time where you are still working for them and getting paid. This protects you giving you time to find another job. Similarly there is a notice period you give the company if you want to leave, so they can hire a replacement and also transfer any knowledge from you that might be crucial to the running of the company.
So you resign and have to continue working for three months (for example) until you can actually leave.
However, in certain circumstances you don't need to work your full notice period. If both parties agree, it can be shorted or removed completely.
In other circumstances where an individual has intimate knowledge of the strategy of a company, an individual may be asked to stay home during their notice period. They are still being paid as normal but are asked not to work. This is gardening leave. Note that you are officially still employed and cannot take another job without the permission of your employer, in the same way you couldn't before you gave notice.
I've never heard of a notice period/gardening leave lasting as long as 20 months before (other than sportsmen where they are registered with an official body) and this might be where SJR thinks they might catch a break.
However Ashworth is not going to be living hand to mouth. He will be getting his full normal salary all this time for sitting at home.
As some have noted before, gardening leave is common in the financial sector like banking, because it could involve industry secrets. In sporting terms, this is Newcastle saying to the world that they are scared of us going after their transfer targets. They hide behind the he's under contract talk but then utilize a clause that has nothing to do with it.
Ho'way to show you don't understand contract law there my man.
There are pretty fine ways to go around it.
I work in an industry which is very niche and we have enforceable non-competes on our contracts as well as extended periods of gardening leave to avoid people being headhunted to competitors.
That said:
1) Hand your notice in, serve your three months notice/gardening leave and then you have a 6 month non-compete.
2) Your future new employer will refer you to one of their Umbrella Consultancy companies.
3) You are hired for 6 months by the Umbrella Consultancy company on a fixed day-rate.
4) Umbrella Consultancy cover the costs of all the equipment amongst other things to make sure you steer clear of IR-35 implications.
5) Umbrella Consultancy magically has your future employer as a client and next thing you know, they have a project available that you yourself are perfect for!
6) Work Six months at the Umbrella consultancy "consulting" for your future employer.
7) After Six Months the employer decides, you know what? I like you! I want you permanently!
8) Problem Solved.
I work in an industry which is very niche and we have enforceable non-competes on our contracts as well as extended periods of gardening leave to avoid people being headhunted to competitors.
That said:
1) Hand your notice in, serve your three months notice/gardening leave and then you have a 6 month non-compete.
2) Your future new employer will refer you to one of their Umbrella Consultancy companies.
3) You are hired for 6 months by the Umbrella Consultancy company on a fixed day-rate.
4) Umbrella Consultancy cover the costs of all the equipment amongst other things to make sure you steer clear of IR-35 implications.
5) Umbrella Consultancy magically has your future employer as a client and next thing you know, they have a project available that you yourself are perfect for!
6) Work Six months at the Umbrella consultancy "consulting" for your future employer.
7) After Six Months the employer decides, you know what? I like you! I want you permanently!
8) Problem Solved.
Let's just hope they don't get him into a Saudi Embassy.
Exactly, I reckon it's probably a 6 months notice period and a 12 month non-compete, making 18 months. They can probably enforce the 6 month but we can get around the non-compete as you've described.
The whole thing is silly really because everyone and their mother knows he's going to be heavily involved in our summer window. The only question is, will be from his couch or from the office desk.
Say Newcastle stick to their 20m valuation and we back out and hire someone else. They'd be stuck having to pay him for the next 20 months anyway or they'd have to ask him to come back to work for them I suppose. Not to mention that anyone half competent will think twice about going to work for them in future as they've made very clear that if you want to leave you're fecked. Not the best scenario for them.
Yes. Remains employed by NUFC (and will continue receiving salary and accruing benefits) until the period of garden leave ends.
Roy Keane made a good point. He isn’t very loyal is he. Leaves clubs within a couple of years. Who’s to say he won’t join Madrid or something in a year or 2.
The going rate? What did you lot pay Brighton?
As a Brit, Manchester United is the pinnacle.
It was a bit of a silly point that had zero understanding of the full picture.
He went from West Brom to near the top of the FA, a promotion whichever way you look at it.
Left the FA position after he felt his work was completed.
Done 3 years of good work at Brighton left them in a much better position than he found them, then a newly minted club sells him a blank page with an open cheque book, another promotion.
Turns out he was sold a bill of goods on the blank page and open cheque book stuff and then arguably the world's biggest club knocks on his door offering him a way out, another promotion.
I don't know how good his Spanish is, but as he is someone who seems to advocated communication as a prime driver of success, I should think that effectively rules out Real and Barca and we would be the top job that he could ever hope for.
If he does a job that is good enough for us to justify a much better offer than we are offering from elsewhere, then hiring him is still the right choice.
The base assumption should never be that a new hire will become part of furniture.
To be honest, I did think similar when I read the quotes from Ashworth that said something along the lines of how he enjoys building the projects up in the first place, but then it's in his nature to looking for another project once it's in place and working as it's the initial project building that seems to interest him.
It didn't sound like he's the kind of person happy to take root at one place for too long. But given what we've been like for the last decade, if he can help put a project in place that starts working well as a unit then that hopefully shouldn't be reliant on any one individual staying around and so, even if he did leave once it was up and running competently, then he'd have done the job he's being recruited for.
Yeah and if we do that when it's come to negotiating our first transfer they will take us for a ride much like we have seen the last decade
Big day?
oh knock it off with your fancy legal talk. it’s always “that’s a fundamental breach of an employment contract.” or “it still counts as indecent exposure, even if it’s really small. i’d suggest you log out and find the best representation you can afford as you’ll likely be looking at a sentence with your previous.”
He's clearly not going to leave after only one or two years imo. He might very well want to do something else when United are up and running again, but that shouldn't be a huge problem as it is more difficult to get back to the top than it is to maintain.
If the size medium johnny does not fit, then you must acquit.
Some more completely rational and normal takes:
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