Agreed!! We have already spent 24 million on a superstar and it is paying dividends. We have a young Rooney, young Hernandez and a 29 year old RVP who is really showing his stuff at the moment. He is the only player I can say is helping to change the way we play and create goals. He is indeed, the Eric Cantona mark II. He came from a rival club, and his class is showing through. To have Ronaldo back would mess up the future plans of Sir Alex of playing so many combinations. In any case, do not want, since he will be haggling a deal with Real Madrid and thus confirm his status of drama queen of football.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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Agreed!! We have already spent 24 million on a superstar and it is paying dividends. We have a young Rooney, young Hernandez and a 29 year old RVP who is really showing his stuff at the moment. He is the only player I can say is helping to change the way we play and create goals. He is indeed, the Eric Cantona mark II. He came from a rival club, and his class is showing through. To have Ronaldo back would mess up the future plans of Sir Alex of playing so many combinations. In any case, do not want, since he will be haggling a deal with Real Madrid and thus confirm his status of drama queen of football.
That's not the point and van Persie's not remotely the same. If we had swapped Hernández for van Persie then it'd be the same. It's not about whether Ronaldo is a better player than De Gea or if van Persie is a better player than Hernández - they are - it's about the knock-on effect it would have if we were of the opinion key young players are expendable. Top young players like De Gea want to come here because they get taken care of and because we're committed to improving them as players (and people). They're not just expendable assets on a video game that you can chop and change as you like. Yes they also comes because of the chance to win trophies and because they're well paid but what often tips it in our favour is how Sir Alex develops young players. You haven't given a second's thought to how this would impact De Gea you've just decided you want Ronaldo here and that's l that matters.
Look at it this way: you're 20 years old and you're about to make what is perhaps the most important decision in your career. You're offered the chance to move to one of the most prestigious organisations in the world under a manager you hugely respect but on the other hand it would involve moving country, learning a new language and testing yourself in ways you can't really imagine. It's a huge change and is a real show of faith that it's the right place for you to be. After a settling in period you've generally performed well and proven you were the worth the effort it took to bring you in and you're starting to feel like an important asset. All of a sudden the club tells you "well, actually, we've decided that you're progressing as we expected but that's not good enough for us and even though you've put in so much effort to learn the language and acclimatise to your surroundings we're going to ship you back to Spain because someone better's turned up". Don't you think that shows a lack of respect? Do you really think that's somewhere other people in similar situations would want to go to if that's how they're going to be treated? I think it sends out completely the wrong message. I've no doubt thousands of organisations act this way and I've no doubt some clubs - like Madrid, see the Robinho fiasco - do the same but for a club/organisation that prides itself on looking after its players/employees it just looks a bit ridiculous, it makes a complete mockery of the idea.
For Ronaldo, there would be a bidding war. I'd say it happens more than you think to be honest, behind the scenes of course. Clubs aren't going to accept a bid for a player if another club will offer more, so unless the player has his heart set on a club the chances are they'll be a bidding war. Even with Sanchez the rumour was that Udinese accepted Man City's bid of £35m and rejected Barcelona's, before having to go back to Barcelona because he said he'd never join City.
That isn't living in reality though. Firstly who cares about this "£1m a goal" rubbish? Every year players cost more and more and at some time soon someone will be paying £40m a season for a player (edit: actually I think Ibra is already costing PSG around £50m a season, due to his contract being after tax), why not us, now? Rooney has probably cost us over £1/2m a goal this season without a transfer fee, it's totally irrelevant. Ronaldo would have been the difference between 3 titles in the last 3 years and 1, probably the difference between failing in the group stages last season and qualifying. It's impossible to put a price on this kind of player. Fergie clearly thought Van Persie, an exceptionally injury prone player, who is much older and not as good as Ronaldo was worth c.£17-18m a season over 4 seasons. Why wouldn't Ronaldo be worth £35m (based on £75m wages and £100m fee)?
If Ronaldo only wants to join United it would make the deal more viable, but if he is only wanting money, would you be happy that we essentially relinquish the title to City for at least 3 years for the sake of a difference of say £75m? I would certainly be royally pissed. In response to the accept a similar contract as Rooney/RVP - that's also bollocks. If we stuck to that mantra and only offered Rooney what other top earners were earning, he'd have left. The best players dictate the best wages and Ronaldo would deserve £250-275k weekly easily if the others are on £200k.
By the time this deal is plausible the club will be receiving £35 more per season in TV revenue. If it was possible - why the hell not splash this all on say £175m for 5 years of Ronaldo?
In fairness Brwned your missing the point, anyone can recognise Ronaldo is a unique case. Im not advocating doing swap deals for all our young players with establisted stars but this is one situation where I am. Its a unique, once off situation for a special player, one of the greatest to play the game. And as for the lack of respect point, plenty of players come here and dont make and move on after a couple of years so dont try and act like thats a big thing. Macheda moved here from Italy thinking he was going to make it at 16 (?) and hes probably going to leave united during the transfer window or in the summer not beause hes a terrible player but because hes not up to our other strikers standards.
This is where the Sir Alex needs to be strong and give them a firm "no." This time, Blatter cannot get involved and mention the word slavery.
As far as I'm concerned, the most important for the team is to create a solid young backbone of talented players with Rooney and RVP. If we can have that solid core of players, then we will have a team for years. Blowing an entire budget plus adding two players into the bargain including a young keeper and that spells a recipe for Manchester United as a whole. We know the abilities of Ronaldo and they are not being questioned however, he would only be a quick fix and the play will be centered around him all the time. How many chances do we think Rooney or RVP will get to score if he was around? I fear for the day if he does come back because it is not a solution to long-term success, having a core of young talented footballers is.
I don't think I'm missing the point, I think you're ignoring all of mine while putting forward none of your own. I understand we'd push the boat out for Ronaldo but that doesn't mean we should abandon what has made us so successful over the years. Macheda hasn't made it because he's performed below the level expected of him and thus can't get enough games to be satisfied. Both parties will be happy to part ways. That's completely different to De Gea. When is the last time we've gotten rid of a player who's playing well and improving all the time but doesn't want to leave? It just doesn't happen because it's not how the club works.
If you cant see how Ronaldo is a special unique situation for a world class player then there's no point in continuing this debate. Like I said before Im not advocating this as a transfer policy but this is a once off unique situation.
Do you think Ronaldo's the only world clas player we could potentially have signed? We've had the opportunity to do this kind of things before, obviously. I don't think you can call this a debate when you pick one point out of each one of my posts and tell me how I'm missing the point anyway. It doesn't make for much of a discussion.
Getting rid of player who does not want to go makes no sense. Look at Robinho when he was at Real as an example. He wasn't best pleased when Madrid tried to use him as bait to get Ronaldo of us. And you are forgetting De Gea is a Atletico Madrid fan, I don't think he would be eager to join Real any time soon
I only picked one of your points as you did the same to mine. What your missing is Ronaldo is one of the greatest to play the game, yes we've missed out on world class players like Batistuta in the past but Ronaldo is on another level entirely to world class.
That's not true at all - all you've talked about is how good Ronaldo is and how that's all that matters. I addressed the Macheda and van Persie points. You haven't said anything else, you just keep telling me what I'm missing. I know how good Ronaldo is and I've no doubt we've had the opportunity to sign players on his level and better. There's Zidane for one. I'm sure if we were to offer Roy Keane, Ryan Giggs or Paul Scholes to Juve (+ a feckload of cash) then they would've given it some consideration. Obviously we would never do that
'on another level entirely to world class...' what does that even mean?
I would love to have Ronaldo back here. But never at the expense of DDG. No slight on Ronaldo, but it makes no sense to trade him for a player who could be a pillar in our team for he next 10-15 years. We already have one of the best squads in Europe and there is no need to weaken ourselves in key long-term positions just so some fans can satisfy some galactio-esque dream of having 'world class players'. Yes, Ronaldo would 'improve' us, in one aspect, but in others the transfer would weaken us if taken at that cost (60m + Nani + DDG).
Having a top heavy team does not help you when competing with the best, balance and quality across the board do. Actually, now that I think about it, spunking 60m on Ronaldo would be a terrible idea when we could use that money to pad ourselves up in other key positions.
I would love to have Ronaldo back here. But never at the expense of DDG. No slight on Ronaldo, but it makes no sense to trade him for a player who could be a pillar in our team for he next 10-15 years. We already have one of the best squads in Europe and there is no need to weaken ourselves in key long-term positions just so some fans can satisfy some galactio-esque dream of having 'world class players'. Yes, Ronaldo would 'improve' us, in one aspect, but in others the transfer would weaken us if taken at that cost (60m + Nani + DDG).
Having a top heavy team does not help you when competing with the best, balance and quality across the board do. Actually, now that I think about it, spunking 60m on Ronaldo would be a terrible idea when we could use that money to pad ourselves up in other key positions.
I would resist any effort to pry De Gea from us.
Throw in Nani, throw in Ando. Maybe even Henriquez with those two. But don't cough up De Gea. If there's a deal to be had, find a way to do it without De Gea.
Throw in Nani, throw in Ando. Maybe even Henriquez with those two. But don't cough up De Gea. If there's a deal to be had, find a way to do it without De Gea.
I've made other points that you havent addressed besides his ability. You've havent contemplated the financial benefit he'd bring to the club in terms of merchandise while he'd almost single handily get us big sponsorship deals that would far outweight his transfer fee. Then theres the fact that if he had him it'd mean city, chelsea, psg, madrid wouldnt. Heck even if we signed him and stuck him in the reserves for 5 years it would increase our chance of winning trophies by virtue of the fact that other teams dont have him. Then you have to think about teams playing us, they'll have to rethink their whole playing style/philosophy because they know if they overstretch in attack or make one mistake they will be punish. Signing Ronaldo would have effects on all these and more levels that you have to contemplate. Also you're acting as if Im advocating a complete change in transfer policy which Im not. You're also acting as if no other young player would join us if this went through for fear of gettting shipped off in 3 years mid-developement. You're failing to recognise that this would be a once off deal for one of the greatest to ever play the game. Theres also the fact that you seem to think that DDG is irreplaceable, hes not. He could well be a great goalkeeper but isnt now. Goalkeepers are much easier to come by also. Also you imaginary deal you outlined for Zidane includeded 3 of our most important players so its completely different. Fergie obviously doesnt hold DDG in the same bracket as hes shown with his constant rotation with Lindegaard who, lets be honest is nothing special. If a deal was DDG for Ronaldo straight swap would you take it?
I mean when history looks back at the greatest players to play the game Ronaldo will be in that bracket. I dont think players like Falcao, RVP, Suarez will be yet I consider them to be great players.
Thats not world class then, you can redefine the word if you wish but world class means they are able to play at international standard, so there are 40 or 50 world class players in their position at a point minimum. You are referring surely to the 'best players to have played the game' All the people you mentioned are world class.
Yes which is why I said Ronaldo is above that standard. Hes up their with the greats who have played the game. The guy has 170 goals in 169 games for madrid, for a player that doesnt play up front that is outstanding.
World Class has no agreed upon definition. If it were being good enough to play for an international team then all Premier League players would be World Class because they'd all walk into the San Marino team and there would be several hundred thousand World Class players.
Love that post mate.Muppet transfer season.
Why would we offload a goalkeeper who actually wants to play for us, for a player coming back who once left us? What kind of terrible message would that send to the squad and our attitude towards players. Plus, as it happens, he's potentially brilliant and we know from experience just how important it is to have a solid goalkeeper, and he's extremely young too. Ronaldo is also a considerably better player than either Welbeck or Hernandez, I wouldn't swap them for him either, as you know, they want to play for United and already do...
It's not even about assessing what we gain and what we lose in terms of quality by signing Ronaldo. How are young players with very high potential going to perceive us in the future if they think we will willingly offload them, despite wanting to play for United, for players who left us before? I can see the argument for Ronaldo as his quality is unquestionable, but it's at too great a cost. I'd be completely against the idea and I'm sure we wouldn't entertain such a deal anyway.
It's not even about assessing what we gain and what we lose in terms of quality by signing Ronaldo. How are young players with very high potential going to perceive us in the future if they think we will willingly offload them, despite wanting to play for United, for players who left us before? I can see the argument for Ronaldo as his quality is unquestionable, but it's at too great a cost. I'd be completely against the idea and I'm sure we wouldn't entertain such a deal anyway.
Ronaldo is the second best player in the world though brwned. We have had chances in the past, but injuries permitting Ronaldo has been there, done it. There's no bigger certainty he'd be a success.
We won't get him and we can be certain he'll sign a contract but Sir Alex would have him back tomorrow.
If we spent all that money on Ronaldo we would not make that back through sponsorship deals and merchandising - it's all based on paper talk and propaganda. We're already operating at such a high level in terms of squeezing as much money as possible out of sponsorship deals and the like that Ronaldo could only really have a small effect. If we sell 10,000,000 Ronaldo shirts it just means we'll be selling 1,000,000 less Rooney, van Persie, Hernandez and other shirts. There's not this huge margin for improvement that people talk about and well over half of our merchandising revenue goes straight to Nike anyway. The financial benefits really aren't anywhere near as big as you're making out. This crap about Madrid making the Beckham fee back in 6 months was proven to be rubbish very quickly, I've no idea how people still keep buying into it. The rewards are 90% on the pitch. And yes Ronaldo would improve us but whether he can bring us £150m+ worth of success...I wouldn't be so sure at all, personally.
Scholes was a similar age to De Gea and was being rotated with Nicky Butt at the time. We still wouldn't even have considered selling him. It doesn't matter if it's a one-off, the damage is done from that one terrible act of disrespect. You have to act the same way consistently if you're going to identify with that set of behaviours. It's like saying you believe in protecting the planet at all costs, decide one day to back the decision to destroy 100s of acres of forest to build an Audi factory and then still claim to be a staunch environmentalist. You can't claim to be against capital punishment for your entire life until there's this one criminal who did something really bad so you make an exception for him. If our players are committed to the club and giving their all then we'll take care of them, end of.
It doesn't matter what way you put it, getting rid of De Gea against his will is a betrayal of what we stand for.
No question Sir Alex would jump at the chance to bring him in, I just think it's absurd to believe he'd even entertain the suggestion of including De Gea in any deal. Sir Alex made him the second most expensive keeper in history - he clearly has a huge amount of faith in him.
De Gea is a tremendous prospect and if it was certain he would be our goalkeeper for the next 10+15 years then great. You then hope year after year he keeps improving. Nani isn't really an issue with 2 years remaining and Ronaldo able to do that role.
This speculation has come about because we've drawn them. There's nothing in it. However Ronaldo is absolute quality. He was part of one of our best spells in Europe and is the only reason Madrid won the league last season.
As a person he's questionable. I do not like how he left the club. However, his value going forward is obvious.
This speculation has come about because we've drawn them. There's nothing in it. However Ronaldo is absolute quality. He was part of one of our best spells in Europe and is the only reason Madrid won the league last season.
As a person he's questionable. I do not like how he left the club. However, his value going forward is obvious.
I don't see what the problem is.
He's one of football's best players, who would give the whole team a lift.
He left us for Madrid to fulfill a childhood dream. He even spent a season longer at OT than he really wanted too. I now get the impression he enjoyed playing for United more than he does when playing for Real Madrid.
Mind, I don't think he'll actually play for United again.
The funny thing about the whole debate for me is that if Madrid were to come in for De Gea, he would most probably want out even more vehemently than Ronaldo did.
And you know this because...?
What is that based on, if not absolutely nothing?
I don't doubt any of that Rams, and agree with your thoughts on him, he would be an incredible signing for any team at any time, but my issue is in this hypothetical it is at the cost of players who want to play for United. If it's just a question of getting him back, or selling him with players who wanted to go the other way, it would be a different discussion.
Because he's Spanish. Silly people.
3rd actually. Neuer cost about a million more. Point still stands. Just a little nitpicking.
Yep, boyhood Atletico fan would jump at the chance to play for Real Madrid. Well done
I understand what you're saying, but carrying on this hypothetical would you still disagree if it was a straight swap with no transfer fee?
So De Gea for Ronaldo.
Impossible scenario, but if De Gea was against the move and wanted to continue playing for United, yes.
Hypothetically speaking this is just ridiculous there is no comparing the two and Real Madrid would never let him go that easily
Yeah, that rules it out doesn't it.
Like it ruled out Fowler, Carragher and McManaman playing for Liverpool when growing up supporting Everton.
Smith supporting Leeds playing for us.
Van Persie Arsenal fan leaving for us.
and there's bound to be plenty more.
Like Liverpool fan Ole refused to play for us .. oh wait
Or Everton fan Carragher for Liverpool
Or countless other such examples.
Madrid is one of the two biggest spanish clubs about, any Spanish player would want to play for them. If Ronaldo being a Portuguese player was going ga ga for playing for them, I find it hard to believe a top level spanish player won't want to move.
I can't think of a single example where a spanish international turned down Madrid or Barca. Torres? Were either of Madrid or Barca in for him ever?
I should qualify my statement by adding that I don't think he will go there for being a back up to Casillas. But if he was to replace him as number 1, I really can't fathom him not wanting to move.
It doesn't rule it out no, but it doesn't make it clear cut that he would want to play there.
Also, those examples are different, as Fowler, Carragher etc never actually went and played for Everton.
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