It's a fair point, to be fair. I thought the match was on Sunday before I checked it.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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It's a fair point, to be fair. I thought the match was on Sunday before I checked it.
His overall level of performance and goalscoring is so consistent that he must win the Balon d'Or, Messi the same. He doesn't necessarily have to be the best player on the pitch in all 60+ games that Madrid and Portugal play as long as he's performing well and scoring/creating, which he does, relentlessly.
He was good to very good tonight. Isco, Modric and Benzema were better or equal for me, perhaps Marcelo too but Madrid were so good all over the pitch so that's to be expected. The others don't perform nor score with anywhere near the regularity that Ronaldo does so obviously you'll get people screaming for him to win BPITW again because he basically is at the minute.
Wednesday to Saturday is fine, why do they need special treatment? CL teams do that often.
Other FA's are usually understanding the Premier Leagues and they make a lot of concessions for their teams to play in the UCL.
Don't agree with that. The Spanish FA is more understanding, they generally make sure CL teams play on the Saturday ahead of an upcoming CL game. Pretty sure a few managers have said the same, Mourinho definitely did.
Arsenal and Liverpool both play on Saturday after playing tonight, what's wrong with it? If the Clásico was on Sunday, Barcelona would still get a day extra rest...
Maybe so, but at the moment Pele and Maradona are in a tier of their own.
When Messi and Ronaldo retire, i believe it will be highly debated who was the best out of the 4.
I just think at the moment Ronaldo is on another level to what he and Messi have ever been, if Ronaldo bangs in 80+ goals this season or the continues the rate he is doing and scores 101, what player from the past or current could even get anywhere near those figures, who could even surpass it in the future? And since he would have won at least 4 Ballon d'ores (he'll be on 3 end of this year and those figures would earn him a 4th next year) in 2 separate countries, surely there has to be a case of him being the greatest of all time?
Put it this way, I don't recall a flare type player (Best/Rivaldo/Ronaldinho/Maradona) being at the level Ronaldo is at right now at 30 years old and not many being at the level he's been all the way through his career,
Cristiano on another level to what he and Messi have been at? That's a huge, huge call and one I'd have to disagree with. Quite telling that even with Cristiano in his best goalscoring form he's still nowhere near breaking Messi's annual goal record(just over half way there) without considering assists and more important overall performances.
Just seen a replay of his goal tonight and I don't think I fully appreciated the move, pass and finish. Outstanding.
I have no idea of what request Real Madrid put in, and I don't know if their complaint is justified, but I was just pointing out that other FA's are more accommodating. Even Italian authorities are much more understanding than fecking Premier League.
when ronaldo played for us i thought he was a beast of a player
now, and for three years in a row, he is playing even better
the man is something else
now, and for three years in a row, he is playing even better
the man is something else
I don't think we'll ever see the goalscoring records of Messi and Ronaldo for a very long time, if ever again. By modern standards, they have redefined goalscoring and how we perceive it.
Ahh! My mistake sorry, misread your post and thought you were saying the Premier League is more understanding than the Spanish one. I agree with you
True. Though I do think Neymar will graze them. His efficiency has improved significantly. Messi feeding him obviously helps him a lot.
Ronaldo is probably the best goalscorer of all time alongside Messi, at least so far, but I don't think that defines him as better than the rest. Maradona was not exactly a goalscorer and he had a football hability ahead of Messi and Ronaldo, there are certain things about a football player that can't be measured by stats.
About other players in the future with the same goalscoring hability, only god knows.
I never said Ronaldo is the best (or could be the best) because of his goal stats, when i look at Ronaldo i look at his all-round game and he's world class in a lot of aspects.
The same can't be said for a lot of legends, they tend to be skilled in 1 part of the game.
that's a little bit exaggerated, a lot of good and great players in history where good in a lot of aspects of the game just as Ronaldo. What is different with him and Messi is the goalscoring capacity, which is unique in history.
There's also the factor of the context in which Ronaldo and Messi play, which is a lot different coared to other eras.
He made Liverpool's defence seem nonexistent
He doesn't influence games though!!!
Ronaldo was a steal at 80m, wasn't he?
Which legend are you talking about? I can't think of any legendary player who was limited to just being skilled in one part of the game. Even the most extreme and limited example in Gerd Müller was actually not limited at all and had a great all-round game.
I rate Ronaldo highly, but what makes him stand out is that he is the best goal scoring winger in history. What makes Messi unique on the other hand is not his goal scoring ratio in his career or best season which has been equaled by Pele and quite a few players who are rated much lower like Müller/Eusebio.
Pele for example scored 110 goals in one season compared to Messi's best which is 73.
If you want to find reasons to rate Messi higher than Pele, Muller and Eusebio then you have to find other aspects of the game to compare than just goal scoring.
For me his close control and playmaking in combination with that great goal scoring ratio is his biggest selling points when comparing him with other top "strikers"(including CF's/False 9's).
Whatever way one decides to rate the legends it is surely incredibly close and the best "striker" would depend completely on the other players around him. Messi is not better at doing what Ronaldo and Eusebio did than they were, and Pele wouldn't be better than Messi in a tiki-taka.
disagree on both counts.
And still madrid would have gotten a better deal. Insane player.
Apparently a standing ovation for him when he came off?
Love this stat:
Left: 69
Right: 269
Head: 54
Other: 2
Not too many players can score 2 goals with 'other'. I remember one of them was for us when he scored 42 goals - never seen someone score with that part of the body before!
Yeah, the party line this morning seems to be it was a round of applause, but the boo's were far more audible then any claps might have been (and I don't deny that some poeple probably were clapping, but it was nowhere near a Fat Ronaldo at Old Trafford type of exit)
I'm really not sure you can say that. Gerd Muller, Di Stefano and Eusebio, to name three, all have outrageous goalscoring records of pretty much a goal per game too, and far better international ratios. Definitely the two best and most consistent goalscorers of most of our lifetimes but they're not these otherworldly goalscoring figures the likes of which we've never seen before that some make them out to be.
Hell, Pele's record for Santos is pretty much the same as Ronaldo's for Real, only for a more prolonged period, and supposedly the Brazilian league was the best in the world back then.
Doesn't matter if you boss the midfield if you don't win. It's a team effort. Ronaldo imposes himself on the game when he has to. The first goal was crafted by Ronaldo with a sublime pass by James. He also played other players into good positions several times, but he isn't about bossing the midfield - that would take him away from the scoring positions, wouldn't it? Weird argument to make.
That being said, Modric is a real joy to watch - what a midfielder he is.
Your hate for Ronaldo is a little boring these days...
He's more than "just" goals obviously, only hatred and stupidity can make people say that. He links up so well with his teammates, he knows when to keep it, when to release it, when to make the runs and when to dribble. Yeah he isn't as creative or aesthetic with his passing as some other players but he plays a very clever and efficient game.
True that all the others were finished at 30, but that was the age that Rivaldo ran and won a World Cup.
Messi scored against every single La Liga team, consecutively. That would be a level higher than this, no? Not to mention the 91 goals in a calendar year thing that probably wont be beaten easily for a long, long time.
I feel like people haven't watched Barcelona this year at all. Messi is very, very close to his best form. What would always swing this debate to Messi for me is the fact that he will always match Ronaldo's goal scoring, but also provide assists too.
I feel this year, he has improved his all round play a LOT more. He is so much more involved in the build now than he ever was. And it looks like his scoring hasn't taken a hit for it too.
As always when goals per games ratio comes up, here's the token Josef Bican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Bican) and Fernando Peyroteo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Peyroteo) mentions... even if they from a different period, in "poorer" leagues...
All things considered, it's difficult to top Gerd Muller in my opinion.
Ronaldo does start from a wider position though, is more of a wing forward than a pure poacher.
Were they any better defensively then? I wouldnt be surprised if flair was valued more than defensive solidity back then as well.
Fernando Peyroteo
What an extraordinarie player. Too bad when Sporting had the "5 violins" amazing team there were no european competitions. Peyroteo was one of the best players of our history but the standarts of the portuguese league wasn´t the best. One of his collegues played both Football and rink hockey in the same year (Jesus Correia). They weren´t exactly professionals at the time and for some football was the second "job". Even so his goal scoring numbers were an amazing achievement.Agreed. Maradona is my favourite though
Was about 5 years when the genius played in Alvalade for Napoli against Sporting. Was at the stadium but can´t remember anything except the penalty.Except there was no Brazilian league back then. Pele played with Santos mostly in Campeonato Paulista. This was the league of the Sao Paolo state where, it seems, some pretty rubbish teams played as well.
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I think he was speaking of averages here...
Yeah I guess you are right, I just said that to calm the other guy, some people are desperate to hear Messi and Ronaldo are the best of all time and ignore the rest of football history so I'm willing to give them a little bit of it.
What fascinates me to no end is comparing Ronaldo to Messi while taking the rest of their team mates into account too. Both are such brilliant players, out of this world good, that people sometimes forget they are still just footballers. Meaning their performance is also influenced by the quality and performance of the rest of the team.
Xavi and Iniesta, or perhaps the Barca-core were the reason Spain dominated World Football for three tournaments I think, unheard off. Messi''s never looked more dangerous than playing with Xavi and Iniesta in their prime. He still showed some brilliant skills for Argentina last summer, but playing tika-taka with Xavi and Iniesta made him look such a better player.
Same goes for Ronaldo, in the past I'd always give a small edge to Messi. But now Xavi and Iniesta are getting older, Real Madrid might actually have a better midfield and a better all-round squad than Barcelona. Something Ronaldo's benefitting from, last years Champions League record was insane. And at the moment, playing with Kroos and Modric, James and the rest, Ronaldo looks the best in the world to me now.
Xavi and Iniesta, or perhaps the Barca-core were the reason Spain dominated World Football for three tournaments I think, unheard off. Messi''s never looked more dangerous than playing with Xavi and Iniesta in their prime. He still showed some brilliant skills for Argentina last summer, but playing tika-taka with Xavi and Iniesta made him look such a better player.
Same goes for Ronaldo, in the past I'd always give a small edge to Messi. But now Xavi and Iniesta are getting older, Real Madrid might actually have a better midfield and a better all-round squad than Barcelona. Something Ronaldo's benefitting from, last years Champions League record was insane. And at the moment, playing with Kroos and Modric, James and the rest, Ronaldo looks the best in the world to me now.
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