Ronaldo left, Rooney stayed. But Ronaldo has shown more loyalty than Rooney.
Caf logic.
Caf logic.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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You lot as so biased towards Ronaldo.
It's hilarious the lengths people will go to.
@lonelyred is right though. The bit that Ronaldo appeared to agree to was a remark about: when a player wants to move, the clubs need to sit down and talk. Which was also something Blatter said. However as I've not seen the uncut live interview online since I've no evidence.
Anyone who read the Vidal thread this summer will know how much a soundbite gets recycled, requoted, retranslated and ultimately means very little unless you've got the original footage, a team of translators and too much time on your hands.
In any case, it doesn't matter. He's long gone and his family love Madrid, even if he goes through moods where he doesn't. Something about the cow in the next field always looking greener goes here
Anyone who read the Vidal thread this summer will know how much a soundbite gets recycled, requoted, retranslated and ultimately means very little unless you've got the original footage, a team of translators and too much time on your hands.
In any case, it doesn't matter. He's long gone and his family love Madrid, even if he goes through moods where he doesn't. Something about the cow in the next field always looking greener goes here
@lonelyred is right though. The bit that Ronaldo appeared to agree to was a remark about: when a player wants to move, the clubs need to sit down and talk. Which was also something Blatter said. However as I've not seen the uncut live interview online since I've no evidence.
Anyone who read the Vidal thread this summer will know how much a soundbite gets recycled, requoted, retranslated and ultimately means very little unless you've got the original footage, a team of translators and too much time on your hands.
In any case, it doesn't matter. He's long gone and his family love Madrid, even if he goes through moods where he doesn't. Something about the cow in the next field always looking greener goes here
Yeah, I guess it's a moo point now
Well, exactly. Long before his eventual departure Ronaldo agitated for a move and got a massive new contract in return (which is exactly what Rooney did that has since earned him so much abuse)
From that point onwards, the main difference is that this new contract wasn't enough for Ronaldo who still forced his way out of United while Rooney looks like finishing his career here.
One of them is a legend who is immnune from criticism. The other a fat useless scouser who fvcked the club over and should still be abused over his contract shenanigans several years later. A fat, useless scouser who might well become Manchester United's highest goalscorer ever.
The difference in the status accorded to these two players by a significant proportion of Manchester United fans is one of the most demented things ever.
This is the problem I have with allot of United fans, allot seemed to forget his Summer 2006 2007 wanting to go, before signing a new contract, and his 2008 behaviour. I do think that contract he signed in 2007 should have bought United 3 good years with United out of him, not 1.
Because his 2008/09 performances were very poor, with some all me moody behaviour that a few of his goals he scored, he did not even want to celebrate. It's not him leaving United is the problem, it's the way it was done is what really gets under my skin. And he did this 3 times within a space of 3 years
It's nice he speaks highly of the club, and showed some fantastic respect when he scored against us in 2013, but I will never forget the way he dragged out a move to Madrid between 2006-09
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Yes but Fergie loves Ronaldo and hates Rooney too. It is not as simple as that.
Fergie didn't get along with a lot of our great players e.g. Keane, Beckham, RVN, Stam. It doesn't tarnish their reputations for me, Fergie definitely had his favourites doesn't mean the ones less in favour are any lesser than the ones who were in favour.
He does?
Have to admit hypocrisy in the past when it comes to Ronaldo and Rooney. There's little difference between the two except that Ronaldo was good enough to get a big club to bid a world record fee. I can understand fans liking his professionalism more and the fact that he was far superior, but in terms of behvior there's not that much difference as the attitude towards them would suggest.
I think people always thought of Ronaldo as a player who would leave. The only question was when, and would we get our money's worth out of him, first as a player and then as a transfer fee. He was the ultimate value for money buy. So, maybe some United fans feel "betrayed" but I really don't, it would have been nice if he'd changed, but actually he just acted how I expected him to.
With Rooney it was different. His whole marketing image (and he has always been heavily marketed) was supposed to be: jumpers for goalposts, plays for the love of it. It was always nonsense of course, he moved for money and glory from "his" club and he'd have done it again if he had to. However I think some people genuinely got duped by the image and felt all the more betrayed when he complained.
Players come and go. Some of them are lucky enough that the club they loved as a kid is located where the want to live, and is also one that will give them money and trophies, but most players aren't. Which is why I don't get too worked up about the loyalty arguments myself.
The excuse by some United fans a few things
1 He was honest about, as he never wanted to stay here long term, rooney did And he went back on his word
2 Ronaldo never wanted to join Man city and Chelsea, Rooney did. But only Madrid, which makes him lesser of the 2 evils
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Again it's a poor excuse, what many fans fail to realise, Ronaldo decided to jump ship has soon as he hit his potential, and that is the grip I have with the guy.
So when Ronaldo was having a horrible time losing his dad, and when his form was so bad in 2005, Fergie give him a mini holiday, let's see Madrid do that. Now this should have seen Ronaldo atleast give the club 5 good years, between 2005-10
Now if it was up to Ronaldo he would have left in 2008, only then he hit his potential. So the club had to put up with his inconsistent form, while he waited to become the player he could be and move on. I think he decided to move on way too early, 2 years too early
At most he owed the club another 2 more years of 2008/09 and 2009/10, all we got from Ronaldo is 3 inconsistent years, 1 very good season, one great season, and one moody season out of him. Check his form for Madrid, it blows away anything he done at United. I think he made United a smaller club in 2008, we win the European cup, and still the worlds best player would rather play somewhere else
You see, I don't buy that for one moment. Players (and managers) come and go. Their contribution varies, but neither their arrival, their departure or their words matter. United was there before them, it will be there after them. It's actually one of the best things about football - it just moves on.
There were personal as well as cultural reasons why Ronaldo wanted to go abroad, so I'm not sure that makes us 'a smaller club'. However, I believe that is how Cristiano views us in comparison with Real. In a manner of speaking, maybe he has all the affection - and patronisation - towards United that a smalltown boy has for his 'home' once he's settled in the big, glamorous city. He misses us, but not enough to make him regret moving into what he sees as the big time.
It is the timing of when he wanted to leave is the problem, he decided to leave when we won the European cup and when he just hit is potential
Agreed, it was always a matter of when he would leave United for one of the Spanish duo. If I am not wrong he had always harboured ambitions of playing for one them since he was young. We were probably resigned to the fact that we were going to lose him sooner than later. He never really seemed settled in Mancester and always seemed inwardly pining for a move to the more glamorous and sunny Spain.
Ronaldo fulfilled his promise and then some more at United winning plenty of trophies and individual accolades whilst leaving us with a cool 80 mil. Rooney on the other hand didn't reach the lofty heights that many thought he would. This is no slight on Rooney but he was one of the best teenagers to grace the modern game and he seemed to have more potential than Ronaldo when they started at United. Ronaldo was more forthright with his intentions which was to leave United for Real or Barca. He even respected Fergie enough to stay another season at United. Rooney meanwhile went about denouncing United's ambitions and implicitly implying that the team wasn't good enough (or was perceived in that manner) which was rather destabilizing to the team. Many players (and SAF) didn't take to it kindly at all.
"For me it's all about winning trophies - as the club has always done under Sir Alex. Because of that I think the questions I was asking were justified."
It has been inferred that Rooney feels the current crop of players at Old Trafford are not up to scratch and his statement has irked the likes of Vidic and France international Patrice Evra.
"Rooney is going around and talking about the bad playing, or something happening around the club with the Glazers - it is not good for the players and not good for the team," Vidic told Sky Sports following the 1-0 win over Bursaspor.
Evra has insisted he has the utmost faith in the players around him. "If one player does not trust the other players, that player should not play," he said. "I am not like that as I trust everyone and I know we can win."
He added: "The situation with Wayne Rooney is for the boss, not for the players. We are just focused on winning games and bringing back the winning mentality.
It has been inferred that Rooney feels the current crop of players at Old Trafford are not up to scratch and his statement has irked the likes of Vidic and France international Patrice Evra.
"Rooney is going around and talking about the bad playing, or something happening around the club with the Glazers - it is not good for the players and not good for the team," Vidic told Sky Sports following the 1-0 win over Bursaspor.
Evra has insisted he has the utmost faith in the players around him. "If one player does not trust the other players, that player should not play," he said. "I am not like that as I trust everyone and I know we can win."
He added: "The situation with Wayne Rooney is for the boss, not for the players. We are just focused on winning games and bringing back the winning mentality.
You do have a point here though. He was probably my favourite player after Scholes for most of his career here at United and at that point of time (2009), I would have been more upset at the prospect of Rooney leaving than Ronaldo. It just seemed like he was a United legend in the making and that he would never contemplate leaving United. Always had the image of him as being fiery, passionate and a loyal player who genuinely wanted to emulate the likes of Scholes, Robson, Charlton etc. Never had the same vibe about Ronaldo though, which explains my preference for Rooney at that time. However, I don't hold Rooney in the same esteem after that episode and a culmination of other factors. Not that Rooney will care about what the fans think, so long as he earns his dough. However, I can acknowledge the fact that he is a very good player but just not the player that he could have been.
In my opinion, Ronaldo was desperate to be seen as better than Messi, and didn't think he could achieve that at United.
He had more than enough time to give more years to United, and join Madrid later.
But for me, it was as much about trying to elevate himself on a bigger platform as it was about it being his boyhood club or anything else.
He had more than enough time to give more years to United, and join Madrid later.
But for me, it was as much about trying to elevate himself on a bigger platform as it was about it being his boyhood club or anything else.
Wouldn't even surprise me, definitely the most self obsessed footballer I've seen.
Yeah, this.
The thing is, that theory was proved wrong as he became the worlds best player playing in England, so he already proved he was a better player. He just wanted to move to Spain
Not to mention that, even without him in our squad, United's record domestically and in the CL was better than Madrid's for the majority of his career in Spain to date.
If he really did leave to "elevate himself to a bigger platform", hindsight has proven that to be a bad decision. I don't think he did. He left for a massive pay-cheque and better weather. Which is fair enough but let's not dress his motivations up into something they weren't.
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Madrid were/are still a more glamorous club than us, despite not winning as much in recent times.
It's not been a bad decision at all, either. His brand and standing has indeed increased.
Messi's just been that much better.
It's not been a bad decision at all, either. His brand and standing has indeed increased.
Messi's just been that much better.
I'm not defending Rooney's actions here, to publicly criticise the team was stupid to say the least. But he did have a point we just sold Ronaldo for a world record fee and brought in Valencia and Owen, on top of that Rooney was hitting his best form scoring goals for fun. Imo he was not wrong to question the club, it shows he wants to be successful, but should have been done in private. Sir Alex said in his autobiography that his head was turned by his agent, which is no excuse but you have to take things into context.
I don't think he had, but fair enough.
It's increased in line with his own performances. Would have been no different if he'd stayed put.
If I am not mistaken wasn't Ronaldo a Benfica fan
Obviously I can't prove it, but I think it would have been different here. Like I said, Madrid are seen as more glamorous.
40 goals for Madrid does more for a player than 40 goals for United, in my opinion. Especially when they're in 'competition' with a player considered potentially the best of all time, who plays in Spain.
Not to mention the whole Messi - Ronaldo thing could really take off. El Classicos, scoring records etc.. Ronaldo versus Messi was already a big deal back then.
I think the fact that he'd scored so many goals for United and still wasn't considered the best player in the world would have led to him to seek a move to Madrid.
Again I have no proof for it, but I don't believe it was just money and climate, or that he didn't see Madrid as a step up.
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Messi before guadiola took over, would show flashes of brilliance but was always on the sidelines, so Ronaldo's motives were not about matching messi. He already surpassed messi, he just wanted a change, I think the timing was off to be honest, but oh well
Messi had surpassed him by the time he left England.
Madrid were a step up for Ronaldo. That's why he left.
Not has a team, he did not leave United for a better team, he left for a warmer climate and more money, that is it. Didn't you see madrid in the 2008/09 season?
Ronaldo when he left England was still the worlds best player, messi was just in a better team
Yeah, my timing might be off.
But I think Messi was considered at least as good as Ronaldo (and the better talent) when he left for Madrid, even though Ronaldo had had the better year.
It wasn't just more money or a warmer climate, in my opinion. It was the glamour that comes with playing for Madrid.
Madrid might not have been the better team, but 'team' is separate from 'club'.
And they were the better club in Ronaldo's eyes - at least the better club for him to become the even bigger star he wanted to be.
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Ronaldo is the kind of player I 'envisage' to play in red shirt; a player who always work hard, take care of himself, reliable, and always want to improve themselves. Something that I can relate to and want to be in my career. I can't stand player who is bitching around, not wanting to improve, or just not taking that red shirt seriously.
That's why I dislike players like Anderson, Berba, and Rooney who have talents of the world, but not wanting enough to push themselves by being moody, 'lazy', sulky, or look disinterested.
I agree with both points and I've mentioned them before as well. So I do agree with you and @jojojo on that. I personally never held a grudge against Ronaldo for leaving.
But at the end of the day, are madrid and Barca really going to go big for Wayne Rooney? He simply doesn't have that option so if he's unhappy then it's premier league teams only I'm afraid. But at the end of the day they both wanted out when United were top dogs and both handled it poorly. That's the point. Maybe thw reason for leaving for one was more understandable but there's a lot of revision regarding Ronaldo's antics when he wanted to leave. He started acting like a baby and the slave comments were very distasteful.
Agree with the first bit.
Regarding the second bit, messi was easily the better footballer.
Your timing was fine the first time, Messi had a much better year before Cristiano left for Spain, that was the year Guardiola took over and when Messi properly came to life (helped by a lack of injuries too).
Cristiano Ronaldo still played well that season but he was not as good (and sulked a lot more) as the previous season.
By who? Spaniards?
I'm being a little flippant, as the whole galactico crap does seem to appeal to a certain breed of international fan but all the stats I've seen have United and Madrid fairly evenly matched in terms of global appeal.
Regarding things being different had Ronaldo stayed with United, I think they definitely would have been but not in the way you mean. If he hadn't fecked off to Madrid, the gulf between the two teams in terms of trophies and global prestige over the subsequent few years would have been even bigger. United would have almost certainly won more trophies, while Madrid won less. The fact we failed to reinvest so much of his fee and still did so well just goes to show what an unstoppable force we could have become with Ronaldo still in our team.
The Messi v Ronaldo narrative has definitely been an interesting diversion these last few years but don't see why it wouldn't have been similarly compelling even if they played in different leagues.
I thought Ronaldo was very poor in his final season, when you look at the standards he set, yea 26 goals is a good return, but you would want more out of him. His body language and attitude Over the entire season, really did stink.
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