Ronaldo's got to be the favourite for the Ballon D'Or this year. La Decima, Copa Del Rey, record Champions League goal scorer, top scorer in La Liga, and looks to be carrying his form on to this season goals-wise.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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The discussion is pointless, as I was also trying to say, which is why I think the dribbling argument is a bit moot as it is only a part of their game, and much more part of Messi's.
I consider both players to be one of the best ever, and certainly they are the best ever I've seen (Zidane is up there of course). I'm not quite old enough to remember Maradona at his prime; I remember Hagi though, but he was more like Giggs level, imo.
I used to think the same but I wonder now about the scoring bit.
Actually, I think that had Ronaldo played with Pep's Barcelona, that is with arguably the greatest midfield of all time, he would have scored more goals than Messi. Messi is certainly better at creating chances for himself by dribbling around defenders but Ronaldo sort of compensates it with his off the ball movement and incredible athleticism which allows him to be on the end of more crosses and chances than Messi. Imagine only how many headers Ronaldo would score from Alves' crosses and how many tap-ins from Xavi's and Iniesta's passes. When you have such players behind you, you don't need to create chances for yourself.
Undoubtedly, Messi is more creative than Ronaldo but I'm not sure that he is the better goalscorer even at his best.
In support of this, with Ronaldo, Pep wouldn't have needed to try the Plan B approach with Zlatan for strength. An expensive move that ultimately failed and for a time, helped plunge Barca into a debt crisis. With Cristiano, that option is already available. Providing he could settle into the Plan A of quick passing, high pressing short game of course, then his raw attributes allow for a Plan B, C and D alone.
B - Counter attack at speed
C - strong number 9, traditional striker.
D - aerial assault
That said, there is argument that the failed Zlatan transfer helped push Messi to new heights to defy the need for Plan B all together.
For what it's worth I personally believe Ronaldo is marginally the better. A success in more leagues, more styles, with lesser support both in teams and politics, has won it all in different positions and cultures, scores in every type of game with every type of goal and lately has pushed new boundaries of goal records.
There's also the argument that with Cristiano their overall game would have suffered, even if he succeeded individually. He's a better goalscorer than Messi, I agree, but he wouldn't have contributed much in the build up play as other players, which is a big part of how they control games. They'd be pretty pissed off with his shoot on sight policy too, and he's much better in a team that plays on the counter because he has more space to exploit.
Did you mean instead of or with Messi? Because I don't think their pressing game would have worked as well with both in the team, would be fine with only one though.
I wonder how much revisionism there is when people talk about past greats. I never saw Maradona play but was he really so good that you can discount the sheer difference in the number of goals scored between him and Ronaldo? Did he really single handedly win the Serie A for Napoli (I have seen some people dispute this claim)?
Loads, I reckon.
I know I bang this drum across lots of different threads but it's human nature to remember past events as highlight reels. We filter out all the drab and less interesting bits but remember all the really impactful stuff. Same reason so many people are retrospectively painting our 07/08 season as a festival of flowing football. And that's only 6 or 7 years back. Stands to reason that memories of Maradonna's campaigns from 20 or 30 years back will be even more distorted.
Manchester United Football Club fans treating their club Captain with that attitude, whilst god-worshipping a player who left us for greener pastures. I really hate that about some of our fanbase.
To be fair, it's not that Black & White, one wanted to leave and left, one cries, gets more money, cries, gets more money, the only difference is CR was so good, someone was willing to pay him more, no-one will pay Rooney more. In terms of their behaviour etc, I agree Ronaldo pined for a move away etc and wasn't entirely respectful but I think WR as "club captain" after his behaviour opens him up to little jibes from the fan's. No-one got overly "cross-the-law" insulting, but called him fat.
I don't get this "respect him because he's our captain", I'm not screaming fatty when I attend matches, but to call him fat while discussing him on the internet is perfectly fine, some are a bit precious I think..
Sigh.. I'll regret asking this; but do you really think that Messi is significantly better?
Yep, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The suggestion that "no one" wanted to pay Rooney what he wanted is also, factually, incorrect because we did. An added fact - no one know who else might have been willing to pay his salary because we have no clue who his agent all spoke to.
Calling him fat really isn't the issue. That was a small example of the names he's called on here at times. No one is above criticism but to say things like Ronaldo has done more for United then Rooney is pretty laughable. (Not you who said it, mind).
It's funny though - I'm not even a huge Rooney fan. I wanted him/RvP dropped to fit in either Mata/Kagawa or both, so no one is being precious. It's just an observation. You might not agree with it, everyone is entitled to that.
I definitely do. He's a distance better than any other footballer I've seen. He's got the best bits of many many top players and then some.
And I've actually spent a lot of time discrediting the Argentine in this and other debates in the past. But now I'm over that silly bias, I know that Messi at his best is probably the best sportsman I've seen and comfortably the best footballer I've seen. I mean his passing over the years is ridiculous. Add that to his video game cheat dribbling and goalscoring feats, and it's just plain silly how good this guy has been.
I really like Ronaldo. I'll always be fond of him after his time with us. I've always wanted him to do very well and admired his work ethic. It's just I don't think he's that level of player as Messi has been. Cracking cracking player, though. Will go down as a great of the game indeed. Shedthered thinking Henry was better is just
nope, you have to be a "sudaca" for that
Ronaldo will end in the second tier group
with zidane, cruyff, best, fat ronaldo, ronaldinho etc
first tier is reserved for pele, maradona, distefano and messi
Ronaldo has already cemented his place among the top most tier of footballers ever and it will only get better.
I definitely do. He's a distance better than any other footballer I've seen. He's got the best bits of many many top players and then some.
And I've actually spent a lot of time discrediting the Argentine in this and other debates in the past. But now I'm over that silly bias, I know that Messi at his best is probably the best sportsman I've seen and comfortably the best footballer I've seen. I mean his passing over the years is ridiculous. Add that to his video game cheat dribbling and goalscoring feats, and it's just plain silly how good this guy has been.
I really like Ronaldo. I'll always be fond of him after his time with us. I've always wanted him to do very well and admired his work ethic. It's just I don't think he's that level of player as Messi has been. Cracking cracking player, though. Will go down as a great of the game indeed. Shedthered thinking Henry was better is just
Ronaldo was always the player kids should look up to, for me. His work ethic, added to his talent, is what makes him the perfect role model. I don't know why people don't see him on that level of player that Messi is. He's done some remarkable 'video game cheat dribbling' himself.
They're both amazing footballers and will go down in history as being so. People have preference when it comes to Ronaldo/Messi and try to find facts to back that preference. Honestly, there's no significant difference in overall quality. But as long as they continue to play amazing football, these debates will continue :\
10 years on, last season will be remembered as Ronaldo single handedly leading Madrid to the CL title.
Rooney is a massive cnut and I don't give two shits if he's our "club captain" he is our captain due to lack of options, not because he's anywhere near captain material. We would be such a stronger team if we sold him and bought a proper world class midfielder, but that's another debate for another thread.
Spot on. No one besides PSG wanted him. And that's only because PSG will buy anyone. They are like the fat girls at the end of the night in the club, where they will always be there and take anyone home.
Ronaldo has arguably won us the CL and a couple league titles. Rooney has been our talisman once and then got injured when it was crunch time. So basically, he's never been our talisman to lead us to trophies, while Ronaldo is probably the greatest player in United history. Rooney fans will hate that, but it's the total truth.
Ronaldo will go down as the top 3 players of all time. He will continue smashing them in and breaking all records, while haters will continue branding pele's 1000 goals in the mighty brazilian league. Oh and he's also gonna be a 3-time balon d'or winner and arguably should have won another one.
Are you genuinely Cristiano Ronaldo's Mum by the way? Would explain a lot.
He's his dildo.
Thread ban him Spoony
I'm powerless but I'd delete a few of these nutters if I could.
I have a soft spot for Ronaldo, he played for us and helped us win a lot, seems to have a good relation with Fergie and talks highly of the club, but by god, to actually slate the players playing for us as fat cnuts and a worthless piece of shit is just too much. When he's not sucking Ronaldo's cock, he's fingering his butthole. That amount of abuse for our players alone warrants a ban, if not a thread ban.
Yeah, great player but the worship is nauseating. I suspect it's to do with the average age of this place. Then there's that mentalist Kagawa fan...
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This discussion is silly, there's a reason no one compares Ronaldo to Pele or messi. Ronaldo isn't great enough away from the goals. Messi is brilliant even apart from the goals. And that's why they're recognized differently. It's only on redcafe that people can't decide between them.
There's been a clear gulf between them. I don't have a preference. I've liked Ronaldo more over the years for obvious reasons but messi has clearly been on a different level to anyone else I've seen. And no Ronaldo hasn't done "ridiculous video game cheat dribbling". There are plenty of better dribblers than him.
This discussion is silly, there's a reason no one compares Ronaldo to Pele or messi. Ronaldo isn't great enough away from the goals. Messi is brilliant even apart from the goals. And that's why they're recognized differently. It's only on redcafe that people can't decide between them.
yes, those crazy brazilians worshiping pele, uh?
seriously, how old are you? you cant be more that 12, and if you are, you need to grow up
What´s the difference between Ronaldo worshiping and the Messi one? I think they are equally bad. And this comes from a portuguese person. I basically stay away from these threads because the level of fanboyism is embarassing but from both parts. I don´t really understand this kind of individual worship since what really matters to me is the collective results. The emphasis given to the Ballon D´Or award and the other crap awards annoy me. If my team won nothing, the fact that Ronaldo or Messi win the golden boot is suppose to make a supporter feel better? I´m not imposing my opinion but these awards (from a supporter pov mean nothing. But i suppose they get a pay hike bonus from Adidas or Nike and that makes it all better.
Are you butthurt because I make fun of the steroid midget?It was a genuine question by the way! I honestly didn't know Alonso was on trial too.
I don´t really care about brazilians but on Pele´s days, the brazilian league was arguably the best league in the world. Even so i´ve always prefered Maradona. Without any statistical back up, wikipedia studies or youtube research. I just prefered Maradona´s playing style. Too bad he was a coke head. Prefer him to Messi as well.
Pretty well summarised.
It was a genuine question by the way! I honestly didn't know Alonso was on trial too.
You are so going to hell Vato. First making fun of cripples and now this. Typical Madrid fans, I bet you all murder a kitten before bed time so you can sleep better.
It was a genuine question by the way! I honestly didn't know Alonso was on trial too.
alonso was accused of not paying his taxes too
and i'm not butthurted, i'm butt stretched
still love you in a homo way
It was a genuine question by the way! I honestly didn't know Alonso was on trial too.
alonso was accused of not paying his taxes too
and i'm not butthurted, i'm butt stretched
still love you in a homo way
Feelin' the love, though!
Nope. I feel it's hyperbole when people say so. Aesthetics play a part in the comparison between the 2, to Ronaldo's detriment most times. Strip that away and their effectiveness is in the same tier.
Absolutely.
Speaking of aesthetics, I'm biased towards Ronaldo's freestyle style - despite him rarely showcasing that these days.
Yes, his kind of talent is a rarity in football and something only perhaps Maradona comes close to when it comes to the all time greats.
I strongly disagree, but everyone is entitled to their opinion obviously.
On a side note, this discussion is never going to be concluded (unless one of them will go off the boil significantly before the other) and it kind of feels like we're going in circles a bit
Am i the only one who's against him coming back?
I'm with ya.
Nope
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