you love his legs and the way he combs his hair
you told me in a pm, here:
Cristiano Ronaldo
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you love his legs and the way he combs his hair
you told me in a pm, here:
This man...
Is a legend at both Real & Barca.
maybe we need to discuss the term "legend"
Yeah, I see that ending in a clear, well-reasoned consensus.
When you think of Ronaldo, the brazil one, then which club springs to mind?
None. Just Brazil.
I kind of agree with the sceptic side of the legendary question. United isn't short of dedicated and wonderful players in their history. I can understand the likes of Benfica raising Rui Costa to legendary status (team fan, not very keen to leave, etc) but I attribute that to the lack of top players that dedicated their careers, or the best years of them, to the club - for the modern and younger generations of fans this is as close as someone can get to being a legend at Benfica. Hell, Ronaldo has a quasi-legendary status at Sporting, though he played for their first team for... 6 months?
United isn't quite the same situation, is it? Ronaldo was the best player in the world there and will have a legendary career on his own, but I look at him as a kind of "independent" legend. You aren't short of long-term servants who are also magnificent footballers and who unquestionably love the club. I really can't associate Ronaldo specifically with any club, not in terms of "heart". I don't even bite the "Real Madrid dream". He seems as self-centred there as he was anywhere else and it makes no sense for a Portuguese child to "dream" of playing for Madrid, not for one of his generation. I can understand a current 10-year old dreaming of Barcelona or Madrid, not one of Ronaldo's generation. To me it's just a glamour thing.
United isn't quite the same situation, is it? Ronaldo was the best player in the world there and will have a legendary career on his own, but I look at him as a kind of "independent" legend. You aren't short of long-term servants who are also magnificent footballers and who unquestionably love the club. I really can't associate Ronaldo specifically with any club, not in terms of "heart". I don't even bite the "Real Madrid dream". He seems as self-centred there as he was anywhere else and it makes no sense for a Portuguese child to "dream" of playing for Madrid, not for one of his generation. I can understand a current 10-year old dreaming of Barcelona or Madrid, not one of Ronaldo's generation. To me it's just a glamour thing.
Lets restore the thread, here is a picture of Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro as a child.
Here is a picture of Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro with a child
Here is a picture of Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro trying to be a child.
Here is a picture of Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro acting like a child.
Here is a picture of Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro pregnant with a child.
Oh definitely! Looks to me like we have tooooo many legends already.. What the hell, everybody is a legend! Cole, Yorke, Sherringham, legends for everybody!
We're running out of words to describe those who are really special to the club.
20 years from now, if Ronaldo stays in Madrid for a few more years, THIS will be the way it will be put: Cristiano Ronaldo, a Real Madrid legend who also played for Manchester United earlier in his career...", whether you like it or not.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely the ONLY one who doesn't consider Ronaldo a United legend.
Not a big problem though, because you didn't have a lot of credibility even before that statement.
He better hurry up if he wants me to review my decision about his legendary status at United.
What are we as fans going to forget the trophies we won with him? Bringing only our 3rd CL to date? Or all the great moments and individual goals he scored? Or that he was named best in the world in a united shirt? It doens't matter if other people end up remembering him more as a Real player than a united player, we'll still remember what we and he achieved with him here. We'll still remember him going from the show pony to a superstar.
It's not like he just came for a year, we won a trophy as normal and then he went off. We developed him in to a star and he rewarded us by being instrumental in winning back the league title after 3 years, where Chelsea were looking like they might be unstoppable. He then became the main man in our team and helped guide us through a patch of CL form where we reached 2 consecutive finals, winning one of them.
It's not like he just came for a year, we won a trophy as normal and then he went off. We developed him in to a star and he rewarded us by being instrumental in winning back the league title after 3 years, where Chelsea were looking like they might be unstoppable. He then became the main man in our team and helped guide us through a patch of CL form where we reached 2 consecutive finals, winning one of them.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely the ONLY one who doesn't consider Ronaldo a United legend.
Not a big problem though, because you didn't have a lot of credibility even before that statement.
You are the only one in this thread. No one has backed you up thus far, and everyone else seems to be ridiculing your ideas about legend status.
marcos backed him up to be fair, but as I said earlier, his Argentine nationality means he doesn't count.
I think he left a season or two too soon. An unbelievable player - but what is legendary for me is how we coped with his loss. We're not as strong as we have been but the potential is there this season to reclaim a trophy or two.
If I wanna bet that no one else will come into the thread and agree with you?
Of course there are people out there who agree with you. Plenty even. But if the ratio of people who agree / disagree with you in this thread so far is anything to go by then statements like this
are just plain wrong. Its personal what constitutes a legend, but if the majority of supporters think that a specific player is a legend, then that is the only thing that will matter in the end. Not the amount of goals he scored, trophies he won, things he did or clubs he played for after he left us. All those things contribute, but its the general consensus of the fans that ultimately decide whether a player is looked back upon as a club legend or not, and it seems that the majority thinks he is a legend, at least on here.
Unless he does something stupid that alienates him from our supporters then he will probably go down as a United legend when he retires.
I've mentioned IMO and in some occasions IMFO like a hundred times here. Of course I'm talking about my opinion here. At least I didn't call anybody who disagrees with me a 14 years old girl .
However, what will decide it is not what people think of him now, when the memories are still fresh, and there are still not THAT many "other" memories. If Ronaldo wins the champions league with Real Madrid, and a couple of La Liga titles and stays there for a few more seasons, then IMO, 10-20 years from now (not now!) most people will label him as a Real Madrid legend, rather than a United legend.
And like Striker said, if he only stayed with us for two more years, and didn't practically jump at the first chance to leave us, it would have been definitely much easier to put him in the United legend category..
However, the door is still open for him if he wants to change my mind.
.However, what will decide it is not what people think of him now, when the memories are still fresh, and there are still not THAT many "other" memories. If Ronaldo wins the champions league with Real Madrid, and a couple of La Liga titles and stays there for a few more seasons, then IMO, 10-20 years from now (not now!) most people will label him as a Real Madrid legend, rather than a United legend.
And like Striker said, if he only stayed with us for two more years, and didn't practically jump at the first chance to leave us, it would have been definitely much easier to put him in the United legend category..
However, the door is still open for him if he wants to change my mind.
Ronaldo won't be a regarded as a legend of Real Madrid. One of our greatest players ever maybe but not a legend. At least not in the same bracket as Raul, Hierro, Roberto Carlos etc.. IMO at least.
He won't, that's the main reason I won't regard him in the same bracket as Raul for example. He wanted to stay and serve the club no matter what. He's a bit of a moany git aswell sometimes but I'm torn on that subject because sometimes I can understand why he doesn't feel fully backed by the club.
It all sounds a bit mental, isn't a lot of it to do with the Ballon d'Or and Ronaldo thinking he isn't backed by all the players or something?
He wasn't more important for us winning the CL then any of our other best 5-6 players in that season, especially by looking our most important games. Yes, he scored against Chelsea, but he also missed two most important penalties, and if we got knocked out he could easily be one of the main reasons for that. If there wasn't for Scholes' rocket and our good defence, we would never reached the final in first place, and eventough he scored against Chelsea, he also missed penalty. And we reached the CL final without him after just two years, so there is another argument flushed about him being main reasons for us winning the champions league.
Yeah, exactly which is understandable when you saw him last season. Casillas might be a great goalkeeper and I agree they should get more attention for the individual prizes but there is only one player who deserved it, and that's Ronaldo.
Any sources?
Yeah, personally I think too that being a legend is not only about how great you are. It's not the BPITW award. I think when it comes to being a club legend, loyalty IS important.. But I thought he was there to stay? Wouldn't mind being proven wrong there though.
You're still talking about it as if Ronaldo's status as a United legend or not is decided by other fans. Who cares what 'most people' will label him? What matters is whether he's considered a legend by us, United's supporters.
And again, a point which you have yet to address: he can be both. Him being a Real Madrid legend does not stop him from being a United legend. It's not a possessive thing, it's about what he did for and with us regardless of what comes afterwards.
I'm now just repeating myself, as if to a child. You clearly have a very different understanding of the word legend to the rest of us on this thread. Your definition seems closer to 'property'. And I don't think that's going to change. So I'm going to stop arguing now.
No question about it and I think Casillas has decline slightly as well, he seems to make more errors than he used to. I still can't get my head around it though, it all seems pretty childish.
More like the face for the club. An image a club would be recognized by. When we say Raul we immediately think of Real Madrid. When we say Cantona, we immediately think of Manchester United. When we say Henry, we immediately think of Arsenal. IMO those are the true legends because they became symbols for their clubs. And to be honest with you, only clubs who are short of legends would choose to share theirs with other clubs. We are not.
And yes, I think we have different definitions for the word "legend". I'm still not convinced though that yours is the right one.
I get what you mean and his attitude at times will probably stop him from being seen in the same way as someone like Raul for example, but I do think that if Ronaldo continues like he has been over the past couple of years for another 4/5 years, then he'll have to be seen as a legend in one form or another. I understand that there's a lot more to it than simply being the best, and I do get annoyed when people call him our greatest ever, but there's no way he can keep doing what he's been doing and not go down as a legend in some form or another.
Very well put.
Any sources?
Yeah, personally I think too that being a legend is not only about how great you are. It's not the BPITW award. I think when it comes to being a club legend, loyalty IS important.. But I thought he was there to stay? Wouldn't mind being proven wrong there though.
He's gone this summer or next, I bet my house on it.
In most players in his situation, I'd agree, but I don't see where he's going to go. Man City is the only likely destination for me, but I can't see anyone else being able to lure him if it doesn't work out with them.
I agree with your post Cheesy, but a big factor is that I'm pretty sure he won't be here for the long haul.
Makes it kind of a fait accompli. Doesn't mean the opinion is unanimous, but clearly it's there.
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