Cristiano Ronaldo

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Balu I think you just don't get what type of player Cristiano Ronaldo is so have a read of this from Gary Neville who was his team mate during his time here:


Like I said before, he doesn't need to become a different player, he just needs to add more to his game when his team is clearly struggling. If it hurts the team more than it helps, he needs to change. If he can't change, then he won't be one of the best players in the world over the next years because he's not helping his team win as much as they could. It's that simple really. After all it's about winning games and not having great individual stats.

Football has changed a lot since 2006. Robben was an individually brilliant player with a similar attitude the last years, yet Dortmund made him look completely useless time and time again. Bayern lost until they changed, until individually brilliant players like Ribery and Robben started to play for the team and not hope it's enough to be brilliant and let the rest of the team work for you.

Bayern wouldn't have overcome their problems and build this season's team with someone like this season's Ronaldo in it. And I highly doubt Real will be able to build a team as good as Bayern this season without him adjusting his game a little. And surely that's the goal for Madrid, building the best team in the world?

/edit:
from the article by Neville you quoted:
He showed it is possible to accommodate that kind of individual ambition within a team and marry the two together.
I don't think he managed to marry the two together this season, if he does again, Real will be even stronger and a new manager might help to make that happen.
 
Guarantee you all Ronaldo does not need to adapt his game in anyway, and he'll continue to be one of the best players in the world.
 
What's wrong with you? Gerd Müller was immense. He was incredibly important and without his goals Bayern wouldn't be the club they are now. He wasn't the best player for Bayern or Germany back then though and it's not even close in comparison to Beckenbauer.

Yes, I would include Messi in the Ballon D'or. I think he scored more important goals than Ronaldo and helped Barca win the league with incredible individual performances in the first half of the season, Ronaldo hasn't done anything comparable this season.

It's crazy how people feel offended when someone is saying he's not the second best player in the world this season. I'm not saying he's shit, I'm not saying he's nowhere near the best players in the world. I think he's not one of the best three players this season because others had a way bigger influence in the success of their teams while playing on an incredible individual level as well.

What makes you think I was offended by your post? Quit being a drama queen. What you said was, Ronaldo should be nowhere close to the top 3 and I asked you, who your top 3 would be?

FWIW, I think Messi is the best player in the world. This year, he inspired Barcelona to a league championship, an early cup exit and semi finals of the UCL. Ronaldo did the same for Real, with a cup final, semi finals of the UCL and second place in the league. It's really not that different with the two players in terms of having an influence in the team, because Ronaldo was a major influence with Real Madrid to wherever they came to. With that in mind, how are you saying Ronaldo should be no where near top 3 and Messi would be in contention for Ballon D'Or, especially with such a vacuous Messi and Barcelona performance in the semi final against you lot? Through out the year, there was in-fighting in Madrid team, which is a very significant factor and Vilanova was missing as a coach for the Barcelona team which could be a very big factor as well.

What is clear is, you like Barcelona's style of everybody contributing to the team's cause (Not sure anymore, they were bogshit without Messi) as opposed to Real Madrid, who tend to be organized and give the ball to Ronaldo to score goals. There's nothing with either, and success defines the better team for the season. Mourinho always organizes his defence well, but this year, Madrid were really poor there, so it just became too much for Ronaldo and the goal scorers (last season, he had good support from others) to outscore Madrid's opponents.

This season should be rightly dominated by players from Germany coz they had a storming season, but I remember Sneijder having a fecking great season with Inter and he didn't win it. While we are in agreement that Ronaldo is a very good player and his presence in Ballon D'Or is questionable, he was not that far away either. And arguments like he is not a big game player/doesn't do much in big games is downright stupid. Perhaps you should stick to Bundesliga?
 
What makes you think I was offended by your post? Quit being a drama queen. What you said was, Ronaldo should be nowhere close to the top 3 and I asked you, who your top 3 would be?

FWIW, I think Messi is the best player in the world. This year, he inspired Barcelona to a league championship, an early cup exit and semi finals of the UCL. Ronaldo did the same for Real, with a cup final, semi finals of the UCL and second place in the league. It's really not that different with the two players in terms of having an influence in the team, because Ronaldo was a major influence with Real Madrid to wherever they came to. With that in mind, how are you saying Ronaldo should be no where near top 3 and Messi would be in contention for Ballon D'Or, especially with such a vacuous Messi and Barcelona performance in the semi final against you lot? Through out the year, there was in-fighting in Madrid team, which is a very significant factor and Vilanova was missing as a coach for the Barcelona team which could be a very big factor as well.

What is clear is, you like Barcelona's style of everybody contributing to the team's cause (Not sure anymore, they were bogshit without Messi) as opposed to Real Madrid, who tend to be organized and give the ball to Ronaldo to score goals. There's nothing with either, and success defines the better team for the season. Mourinho always organizes his defence well, but this year, Madrid were really poor there, so it just became too much for Ronaldo and the goal scorers (last season, he had good support from others) to outscore Madrid's opponents.

This season should be rightly dominated by players from Germany coz they had a storming season, but I remember Sneijder having a fecking great season with Inter and he didn't win it. While we are in agreement that Ronaldo is a very good player and his presence in Ballon D'Or is questionable, he was not that far away either. And arguments like he is not a big game player/doesn't do much in big games is downright stupid. Perhaps you should stick to Bundesliga?

I never made that stupid comment and it's quite obvious that you took a few of my comments out of context and didn't read everything I wrote (well, I wrote a lot the last 24 hours in this thread, so I don't blame you). Then you chose to make sarcastic comments to prove a point I never denied anyway along with making clearly wrong assumptions about how I supposedly see the game (you continued to do that again in the post above, very weird). Sorry, if I misread your intentions. To be honest, I'm still confused but that's probably because I should stick to german football and stop giving an opinion to other topics. Thanks for the advice.
 
We are having two different arguments here. It is possible to score and not have a good game? Imo of course it is, there is a reason why Heycknes will use Mandzukic ahead of Gomez he will get you goals all day but when you don't have thye ball or are struggling he will do little to turn the game your way. Ronaldo is no Gomez but this is an example of what I mean. Ronaldo does this more often than not in the bigger games. When I say not have a good game I am comparing him to a standard Ronaldo performance on a Saturday. He is a game changer for them he is their clear beat player and he creates and makes things happen. He isn't a striker so he should be looked at to do more than just score goals in big games even in a bad year Benzema and Higuain have 19 goals and 20 goals respectively so they are not as bad as some are trying to make out. He should be looking to create and make things happen especially since these are things he would do in a standard Ronaldo performance.

Someone answer this for me outside his goals against us and Dortmund what notable things did he do? While his team where struggling for ideas how often did he get on the ball, take players on and make things happen.

People keep defining the context of his goals in the end they where important goals but not part of a big game performance. If you watched him against us or Dortmund I would not come away from anyone of those FOUR games and say I was watching the second best player in the world. This is not a comparison with anybody other than himself.
Is it beyond belief that Real could have been more inspired in the final third against us and against Dortmund? For me it isn't and when Ronaldo is getting on the ball less than Di Maria and Ozil for me that is not enough a couple taps in don't change that they demonstrate his ability to be in the right place at the right time not that he is a world class talent.

When can say he is a outstanding goalscorer and he can be relied on for that but for an all round performance not so much.

p.s saying this is the worst Real team for years is a stunning accusation. They have won la liga withna record total and been to three champion's league semi-finals you have to go back to Del Bosque to find a team that tops that. They regularly have 100 million worth of talent on the bench. The problem is this team plays for Ronaldo and his inability to be the best player on the pitch in big games is what stops them progressing. He hasn't had a standout knockout game against a top team in Europe this season and I struggle to remember one last season.
 
He's just tweeted a picture of himself with One Direction. Do not want.

excellent, i've been waiting for ages to be able to tweet him my reworked version of "you don't know you're beautiful"
 
He's just tweeted a picture of himself with One Direction. Do not want.

BK9GpfFCYAAajX2.jpg:large


:lol:

That said, his taste in music usually isn't that bad. I heard 'Champagne Supernova' by Oasis was his favourite song of all-time.
 
BK9GpfFCYAAajX2.jpg:large


:lol:

That said, his taste in music usually isn't that bad. I heard 'Champagne Supernova' by Oasis was his favourite song of all-time.

It takes a pretty special person to meet with One Direction...and end up looking the most effeminate! Must be the shorts!
 
Guarantee you all Ronaldo does not need to adapt his game in anyway, and he'll continue to be one of the best players in the world.

Spot on.

The suggestion that a player who has scored 55 goals this season in one of the worlds top leagues, and has near enough top scored in the CL needs to "change his game" is a nonsense.

It would of course be great if he could set up another 55, and maybe even get involved in midfield and get stuck in - as if that's realistic for any player. They set up to play his way, to get the best out of him, in the same way that any side does when they have a player of his ability.

All I see in a lot of the posts above are people who seem to think they are armchair tactical football experts picking things apart to the nth degree to justify their argument.

The fact is Ronaldo is a huge threat in every game he plays. He's bagged as many goals as games he's played in (give or take) for the last few years whilst under a huge media spotlight.

Physically he's often unplayable and he drags his team out of holes on regular occaisions by bagging a winning goal. He's firmly put to bed any suggestions he cant perform in "big games" by turning up and hurting Barca more than once. His record stands up to the vast majority of players ever to play the game, in terms of performances, goals and the trophies he's won.

It genuinely amazes me how fans sit and criticise a player of his quality, who produces what he produces game in, game out over a number of seasons. Its as if they think they know better than those involved in the game - what's clear is any side in the world would love Ronaldo in their team, hence why if he leaves Madrid he'll have his pick of where he goes, on whatever salary he likes.
 
As if the Bayern fans wouldn't swap any of thier players for Ronaldo as he is now anyway.
 
We are having two different arguments here. It is possible to score and not have a good game? Imo of course it is, there is a reason why Heycknes will use Mandzukic ahead of Gomez he will get you goals all day but when you don't have thye ball or are struggling he will do little to turn the game your way. Ronaldo is no Gomez but this is an example of what I mean. Ronaldo does this more often than not in the bigger games. When I say not have a good game I am comparing him to a standard Ronaldo performance on a Saturday. He is a game changer for them he is their clear beat player and he creates and makes things happen. He isn't a striker so he should be looked at to do more than just score goals in big games even in a bad year Benzema and Higuain have 19 goals and 20 goals respectively so they are not as bad as some are trying to make out. He should be looking to create and make things happen especially since these are things he would do in a standard Ronaldo performance.

Someone answer this for me outside his goals against us and Dortmund what notable things did he do? While his team where struggling for ideas how often did he get on the ball, take players on and make things happen.

People keep defining the context of his goals in the end they where important goals but not part of a big game performance. If you watched him against us or Dortmund I would not come away from anyone of those FOUR games and say I was watching the second best player in the world. This is not a comparison with anybody other than himself.
Is it beyond belief that Real could have been more inspired in the final third against us and against Dortmund? For me it isn't and when Ronaldo is getting on the ball less than Di Maria and Ozil for me that is not enough a couple taps in don't change that they demonstrate his ability to be in the right place at the right time not that he is a world class talent.

When can say he is a outstanding goalscorer and he can be relied on for that but for an all round performance not so much.

p.s saying this is the worst Real team for years is a stunning accusation. They have won la liga withna record total and been to three champion's league semi-finals you have to go back to Del Bosque to find a team that tops that. They regularly have 100 million worth of talent on the bench. The problem is this team plays for Ronaldo and his inability to be the best player on the pitch in big games is what stops them progressing. He hasn't had a standout knockout game against a top team in Europe this season and I struggle to remember one last season.

It is possible to score and have a bad game overall, but reducing Ronaldo's performance in the big games to that of a poacher (i.e. Inzaghi, Huntelaar, Gomez who you mentioned) is what is baffling. He's a huge part of the attacking system that Real deploys, and he's involved in conception, follow through and execution.

Teams in the Champions League (us and Dortmund) recognize the danger of giving Real opportunities to break, so they restrict the space. The left back for Dortmund (fecked if I can spell his name, Pizczkek?), normally a full back who gets forward frequently like Evra, rarely crossed the half way line in the home tie against Ronaldo. In such games it's impossible for wide players to run havoc, and if they do, it's a sign of the opposing manager's inepitude. Ozil and Di Maria had more of the ball because I don't recall a moment in the knockout rounds where Ronaldo had less than 2 players marking him. Of course it makes sense to give the ball to other players, and they couldn't make it happen.

You can't just get on the ball and make things happen consistently when the chips are down, eventually inferior team setups and horrible defending will fail to a team that is set up better. Like I said earlier, Messi, who everyone accepts is the bigger player, came up short against Chelsea, Bayern and Inter in recent seasons. So why hold up Ronaldo to this standard?
 
As if the Bayern fans wouldn't swap any of thier players for Ronaldo as he is now anyway.

I'm sure Heynekes or Guardiola, if they had the chance and funds, would instantly swap Ronaldo with Ribery or Robben. Of course they would have to change his game to fit the Bayern way of play, more emphasis on defense, playing team football, but even then I see him exceeding what Ribery and Robben have done this season. He's that good.
 
Spot on.

The suggestion that a player who has scored 55 goals this season in one of the worlds top leagues, and has near enough top scored in the CL needs to "change his game" is a nonsense.

It would of course be great if he could set up another 55, and maybe even get involved in midfield and get stuck in - as if that's realistic for any player. They set up to play his way, to get the best out of him, in the same way that any side does when they have a player of his ability.

All I see in a lot of the posts above are people who seem to think they are armchair tactical football experts picking things apart to the nth degree to justify their argument.

The fact is Ronaldo is a huge threat in every game he plays. He's bagged as many goals as games he's played in (give or take) for the last few years whilst under a huge media spotlight.

Physically he's often unplayable and he drags his team out of holes on regular occaisions by bagging a winning goal. He's firmly put to bed any suggestions he cant perform in "big games" by turning up and hurting Barca more than once. His record stands up to the vast majority of players ever to play the game, in terms of performances, goals and the trophies he's won.

It genuinely amazes me how fans sit and criticise a player of his quality, who produces what he produces game in, game out over a number of seasons. Its as if they think they know better than those involved in the game - what's clear is any side in the world would love Ronaldo in their team, hence why if he leaves Madrid he'll have his pick of where he goes, on whatever salary he likes.

Great post, as was adexkola. But you're just going to get a page long reply with the same reasoning, but just worded differently. You'll just have to accept he did nothing against United and Dortmund and all the other big games, when other big players like him have excelled in every big game they've played this season.....
 
It is possible to score and have a bad game overall, but reducing Ronaldo's performance in the big games to that of a poacher (i.e. Inzaghi, Huntelaar, Gomez who you mentioned) is what is baffling. He's a huge part of the attacking system that Real deploys, and he's involved in conception, follow through and execution.

Teams in the Champions League (us and Dortmund) recognize the danger of giving Real opportunities to break, so they restrict the space. The left back for Dortmund (fecked if I can spell his name, Pizczkek?), normally a full back who gets forward frequently like Evra, rarely crossed the half way line in the home tie against Ronaldo. In such games it's impossible for wide players to run havoc, and if they do, it's a sign of the opposing manager's inepitude. Ozil and Di Maria had more of the ball because I don't recall a moment in the knockout rounds where Ronaldo had less than 2 players marking him. Of course it makes sense to give the ball to other players, and they couldn't make it happen.

You can't just get on the ball and make things happen consistently when the chips are down, eventually inferior team setups and horrible defending will fail to a team that is set up better. Like I said earlier, Messi, who everyone accepts is the bigger player, came up short against Chelsea, Bayern and Inter in recent seasons. So why hold up Ronaldo to this standard?

I said his input wasn't as limited as somebody like Gomez so they are bad examples it was just a way of me saying just reeling of goal stats just proves that he scored goals not that he had a good game. But for me he consistently doesn't show that same level of dominance in the big games. Of course he will be tightly marked he is a great player that is what tends to happen to them. It is his job to get himself involved. The last 10 minutes of the match in Dortmund he came away from the left wing and started popping up all over the pitch and guess what Real almost scored twice he was content to stay out there and there was little attempt by him to get involved, also for me it was a one on one job against Dortmund and he did not get the better of his fullback once all night. Whenever Dortmund counter attacked their right winger was right there. The most impressive thing Ronaldo did was get there to tap in Higuain's pass.

Can you honestly tell me he played well against us or Dortmund in any one of the four games?

Dortmund are not so unbeatable they are a great team but lets not make them out to be Barca 08-10 if Real had finished their early chances then we would be having a different conversation. I just see it as he struggles in these tight games to really make things happen when he is not scoring. I don't understand how you can consistently blame players worst than Ronaldo for his inability to shine in these games. You look to your best player's to make things happen. If Barca win we are looking at how Iniesta, Messi or Xavi performed not Pedro or Sanchez.

For me he pulled a no-show in four champions league knockout ties. He is too talented for that to happen four times in one campaign. He has splayed one good game against Dortmund out of four this season. But he was devastating against Galatassary in both legs.

Is his goal to be behind Messi his whole career? So basically Messi didn't do well so it's okay for Ronaldo not to then come December people will be talking about how many goals Ronaldo scored and why that should make him the Ballon d'or. The problem for Ronaldo is Messi is clearly the better player of the two of them. If they swapped teams Barca would suffer alot more with Ronaldo Real would have less of a drop off. The way teams mark Messi and the space Barca play in Ronaldo wouldn't be able to handle that. The way we played them is how teams have played Barca for the last 4-5 years.
 
Outside his goals he doesn't contribute enough in big games. He is not the first great player to be tightly marked and he won't be the last. He will score goals because he is an outstanding goalscorer but when the tie needs more than that he won't contribute. When your attack is broken and you can't get the ball into the final third look to Ozil and Di Maria before you look at Ronaldo that for me is ridiculous. Goals don't just pop up your team has to break down the opposition's defence in someway Ronaldo is at the end of those chances but when you are not getting those chances I would like the second best player in the world to be more involved in making something happen than he has been this season.
 
I said his input wasn't as limited as somebody like Gomez so they are bad examples it was just a way of me saying just reeling of goal stats just proves that he scored goals not that he had a good game.

It's possible to have a bad game while scoring. I'm not disagreeing with that.

But for me he consistently doesn't show that same level of dominance in the big games. Of course he will be tightly marked he is a great player that is what tends to happen to them. It is his job to get himself involved.

No it's not. It's the job of the manager to compensate for the tight marking by adjusting the formation, or moving Ronaldo to another location from where he can do damage. He had a specific role to perform, he can't just waltz off and do his own thing.

The last 10 minutes of the match in Dortmund he came away from the left wing and started popping up all over the pitch and guess what Real almost scored twice he was content to stay out there and there was little attempt by him to get involved, also for me it was a one on one job against Dortmund and he did not get the better of his fullback once all night. Whenever Dortmund counter attacked their right winger was right there. The most impressive thing Ronaldo did was get there to tap in Higuain's pass..

There were spells where Real had the better of Dortmund, yes. However it was not attack where they were found wanting. The defense was absolutely shocking, and I cannot recall a team that has gone through to the finals after condeding 4 goals in the semi finals. Watch the game again, it was not a 1 on 1. Pizkzkek stayed back all night, and either the holding midfielder or the winger would rotate to keep a tab on him.

Can you honestly tell me he played well against us or Dortmund in any one of the four games?.

He was good against us in the Bernabau, poor at Old Trafford until the send off. He was decent in spurts against Dortmund. Not brilliant or very good, but he didn't go missing.

Dortmund are not so unbeatable they are a great team but lets not make them out to be Barca 08-10 if Real had finished their early chances then we would be having a different conversation. I just see it as he struggles in these tight games to really make things happen when he is not scoring. I don't understand how you can consistently blame players worst than Ronaldo for his inability to shine in these games. You look to your best player's to make things happen. If Barca win we are looking at how Iniesta, Messi or Xavi performed not Pedro or Sanchez.

If Real had better defenders than Pepe and Ramos, they would probably be in the finals now. But that's beside the point. Are you telling me that Xavi, Iniesta, or Messi would have performed better in his situation? Because I watched them against Milan, PSG and Bayern. I don't think they would have. In fact, I don't think any player in place of Ronaldo, could have done better. Balu mentions Ribery and Robben. Their brilliance this season is because of the system they work in.

For me he pulled a no-show in four champions league knockout ties. He is too talented for that to happen four times in one campaign. He has splayed one good game against Dortmund out of four this season. But he was devastating against Galatassary in both legs.

I don't think he was no where to be found in the knockout ties. Without his goals Real wouldn't have got to the semifinals.

Is his goal to be behind Messi his whole career? So basically Messi didn't do well so it's okay for Ronaldo not to then come December people will be talking about how many goals Ronaldo scored and why that should make him the Ballon d'or. The problem for Ronaldo is Messi is clearly the better player of the two of them. If they swapped teams Barca would suffer alot more with Ronaldo Real would have less of a drop off. The way teams mark Messi and the space Barca play in Ronaldo wouldn't be able to handle that. The way we played them is how teams have played Barca for the last 4-5 years.

The reason why I brought Messi up was to show you what impossible standards you have. Messi is the better player. Should he have done more against Chelsea, Bayern and Inter? Let's look at Xavi and Iniesta. Shouldn't they have done more when the chips were down against world class sides? I have not seen one word against either player in their respective threads, after being drubbed by Bayern. So if they aren't being held up to these standards, why is Ronaldo the one to blame for his team's inability to reach the finals?

Outside his goals he doesn't contribute enough in big games. He is not the first great player to be tightly marked and he won't be the last. He will score goals because he is an outstanding goalscorer but when the tie needs more than that he won't contribute. When your attack is broken and you can't get the ball into the final third look to Ozil and Di Maria before you look at Ronaldo that for me is ridiculous. Goals don't just pop up your team has to break down the opposition's defence in someway Ronaldo is at the end of those chances but when you are not getting those chances I would like the second best player in the world to be more involved in making something happen than he has been this season.

He's a wide forward. A winger/striker hybrid. He's never been a playmaker. He facilitates the attack, he carries the ball forward and he finishes moves off. Castigizing him for not being able to thread passes through a crowded defense is as futile as criticizing Iniesta for his lack of scoring in the biggest games this season.

Sorry for the long reply.
 
He isn't a big game performer for me. He will leave his imprint on these games mainly from his goals but I can't look over his career and say Ronaldo is a big game player. Of course he will play well in the big games from time to time he is a gifted player but what you get from Ronaldo in these games isn't enough. When he isn't scoring he isn't doing much. He drifts all over the pitch so the excuse that he was 'forced' to stay out wide doesn't make sense to me. If he goes upfront Benzema will go wide or they change to a 4-2-2-2 if he goes to the right Di Maria will go left. In these games he was mainly on the outside looking in.

When he played us even he admitted he didn't play to his usual level. Then against Dortmund if his contribution over the two legs is just that goal in the first leg that is not good enough imo.

Xavi, Iniesta and Messi have more leeway because they have won more and have set ridiculously high standards for themselves. Ronaldo is not a better big game player than any of them. But when Barca lost to Bayern and have struggled this season they have been called out for it. To suggest Ronaldo is the only player who is called out is ridiculous. All great player's are.
 
There's always room for constructive criticism of any professional athlete. Heck, even God Himself screwed some things up. But you can't really ask anything more of a footballer than what Ronaldo gives you on a weekly basis. He scored a magnificent goal for us in Moscow but then botched the pk. What I would say is that even if you could argue Ronaldo doesn't show up for big games, an assertion I would dispute, we still have RvP to pick up the slack. And I really do expect big things from Kagawa and Hernandez next season, which is why I'm not particularly concerned if Rooney lets his tantrum get the better of him and move on to a farcical plastico club like City or PSG.
 
He's got 10 assists this season, isn't that on par with any other Real player this year and not exactly far off Messi? Influencing a game doesn't just have to mean being at the heart of everything. Ronaldo is there to make sure when his team do get the chance he's there to score the goal, and more often than not he does that. Other players might run around more, some might get more assists but there's only one other player in the world in top level football who gets more goals and assists than him.

Also Ronaldo has a set role in his team, he plays from the left cutting in, so he's not always going to be involved in build up or every move, he could drift yes, but then that upsets the balance of the team.
 
JaffyJoe, there are threads on this forum dedicated to Iniesta, Xavi and Messi. Go through those and see if you can bring up quotes or criticism after their defeat to Bayern, or their narrow scrape by PSG.

This debate has gone on forever, but out of curiousity, what would Ronaldo or any other player have to do in such a match to perform well, or be worthy of the "big game performer" title?
 
He does drift though, he rarely stays out on the left, and he's a lot more involved in the build up than people think. He might not track back the way most traditional wingers are expected to but most traditional wingers don't score fifty-odd goals a season so why waste him on 'putting a shift in'? When you have a player of that calibre you play to their strengths and build a team around them.

As for the Ballon D'Or, did Messi win anything significant last season? Cristiano's goals fired Madrid to a record breaking La Liga but he still didnt win it so I don't think trophies are the be all and end all.
 
Do the people moaning about Ronaldo have the same misgivings about Bale out of interest? Bearing in mind in some ways he's Ronaldo - lite?
 
Balu mentions Ribery and Robben. Their brilliance this season is because of the system they work in.

They've been brilliant before without that system. I don't think it's fair to say they are brilliant because of the system. They are still brilliant despite working a lot for their team mates, so the overall performance of Bayern got to an incredibly high level this season.

I'm sure Heynekes or Guardiola, if they had the chance and funds, would instantly swap Ronaldo with Ribery or Robben. Of course they would have to change his game to fit the Bayern way of play, more emphasis on defense, playing team football, but even then I see him exceeding what Ribery and Robben have done this season. He's that good.
That's the point I was trying to make and why I think Ribery had a better season than Ronaldo. I'm not saying Ronaldo can't be a better player than Ribery but Real wasn't set up to peak as a team, they are set up to win because Ronaldo's goal scoring output is as high as possible. I doubt that's the way to make the most expensive team of all time the best team in the world.

But it seems the suggestion, that Ronaldo changing his game a little might help Real becoming an overall better team, is some sort of blasphemy here and the only answer you get is "but he scores so much, it's his team mates' fault, that they aren't as good as Dortmund".
 
Do the people moaning about Ronaldo have the same misgivings about Bale out of interest? Bearing in mind in some ways he's Ronaldo - lite?

I know I do.

Not really moaning, because I don't care how good either of them are or how active they are in build up in their teams, but I would moan if they played like that for United and not winning nothing except individual prizes.

IMO, if I would have to choose which Ronaldo I would have in my team it would be in this order:

2006/2007 Ronaldo >> 2007/2008 Ronaldo >> Ronaldo(Real Madrid period)
 
Great post, as was adexkola. But you're just going to get a page long reply with the same reasoning, but just worded differently. You'll just have to accept he did nothing against United and Dortmund and all the other big games, when other big players like him have excelled in every big game they've played this season.....

Perhaps.

It does amaze me though. People are entitled to their opinions and I understand that not everyone will have the same view on 99.9% of players - it is after all what makes sites like this interesting.

But I'm genuinely shocked that anyon can look at what Ronaldo does andbe critical. What does he have to do - win every game single handedly and his side win every trophy going?

Madrid have had a poor season clearly. But the fact that Ronaldo can perform so well and not win everything going shows just how unpredictable football can be and surely that's why we all watch.
 
They've been brilliant before without that system. I don't think it's fair to say they are brilliant because of the system. They are still brilliant despite working a lot for their team mates, so the overall performance of Bayern got to an incredibly high level this season.


That's the point I was trying to make and why I think Ribery had a better season than Ronaldo. I'm not saying Ronaldo can't be a better player than Ribery but Real wasn't set up to peak as a team, they are set up to win because Ronaldo's goal scoring output is as high as possible. I doubt that's the way to make the most expensive team of all time the best team in the world.

But it seems the suggestion, that Ronaldo changing his game a little might help Real becoming an overall better team, is some sort of blasphemy here and the only answer you get is "but he scores so much, it's his team mates' fault, that they aren't as good as Dortmund".

That is my point. That is not Ronaldo's fault. That is Mourinho's fault.

As for your last comment, when you have a defense leaking goals like a sieve in the semi finals of the Champions League, or 2 strikers who miss open goals, the last person you want to criticize is the person who got you there in the first place.
 
That is my point. That is not Ronaldo's fault. That is Mourinho's fault.

I agree, I wrote that before and was heavily criticised for mentioning he would change his game under a different coach. But we should judge Ronaldo on what he actually did this season and not on what he could do with another manager in charge.
 
It's possible to have a bad game while scoring. I'm not disagreeing with that.



No it's not. It's the job of the manager to compensate for the tight marking by adjusting the formation, or moving Ronaldo to another location from where he can do damage. He had a specific role to perform, he can't just waltz off and do his own thing.



There were spells where Real had the better of Dortmund, yes. However it was not attack where they were found wanting. The defense was absolutely shocking, and I cannot recall a team that has gone through to the finals after condeding 4 goals in the semi finals. Watch the game again, it was not a 1 on 1. Pizkzkek stayed back all night, and either the holding midfielder or the winger would rotate to keep a tab on him.



He was good against us in the Bernabau, poor at Old Trafford until the send off. He was decent in spurts against Dortmund. Not brilliant or very good, but he didn't go missing.



If Real had better defenders than Pepe and Ramos, they would probably be in the finals now. But that's beside the point. Are you telling me that Xavi, Iniesta, or Messi would have performed better in his situation? Because I watched them against Milan, PSG and Bayern. I don't think they would have. In fact, I don't think any player in place of Ronaldo, could have done better. Balu mentions Ribery and Robben. Their brilliance this season is because of the system they work in.



I don't think he was no where to be found in the knockout ties. Without his goals Real wouldn't have got to the semifinals.



The reason why I brought Messi up was to show you what impossible standards you have. Messi is the better player. Should he have done more against Chelsea, Bayern and Inter? Let's look at Xavi and Iniesta. Shouldn't they have done more when the chips were down against world class sides? I have not seen one word against either player in their respective threads, after being drubbed by Bayern. So if they aren't being held up to these standards, why is Ronaldo the one to blame for his team's inability to reach the finals?



He's a wide forward. A winger/striker hybrid. He's never been a playmaker. He facilitates the attack, he carries the ball forward and he finishes moves off. Castigizing him for not being able to thread passes through a crowded defense is as futile as criticizing Iniesta for his lack of scoring in the biggest games this season.

Sorry for the long reply.

Really good post.

I couldn't disagree more with Jaffa's comments.

The other aspect is that Ronaldo forces the opposing team to adapt their play to try and nullify his threat - hence us having Jones basically man-mark him.

To criticise what he brings to the Real Madrid team over the past few seasons is pretty ridiculous really.

Ask any manager in football - if you had a player that was scoring a goal a game at the highest level...would you try and change them and demand more from them??
 
Ask any manager in football - if you had a player that was scoring a goal a game at the highest level...would you try and change them and demand more from them??

Heynckes did it with Robben. Okay it wasn't a goal a game but 36 goals and 26 assists in 50 games when van Gaal was manager is still pretty impressive. Yet he wasn't allowed to keep his freedom for the good of the team when Heynckes took over.

Pretty sure, he would demand more from Ronaldo, if he takes over at Madrid. There are rumours about Madrid offering Heynckes the job for two years if they can't get Ancelotti, maybe we'll find out.
 
I agree, I wrote that before and was heavily criticised for mentioning he would change his game under a different coach. But we should judge Ronaldo on what he actually did this season and not on what he could do with another manager in charge.

This just essentially boils down to Bayerns system being better than Mourinhos, nothing at all to do with the players. I think from your pov Ronaldo was unable to win poty from the very start, because he had the wrong manager. Because you can't blame Ronaldo for executing his managers plan to a tee and scoring so many goals.
 
He really needs to start making more goal line clearances and influencing games in the right back position.
 
JaffyJoe, there are threads on this forum dedicated to Iniesta, Xavi and Messi. Go through those and see if you can bring up quotes or criticism after their defeat to Bayern, or their narrow scrape by PSG.

This debate has gone on forever, but out of curiousity, what would Ronaldo or any other player have to do in such a match to perform well, or be worthy of the "big game performer" title?

I can't comment on how other people chose to view Iniesta, Xavi and Messi. But those 3 are more proven big game players and have more great big game performances under their belt may be the reason why people are less likely to criticize them. If I was looking to comment on Messi I would have been in the Messi thread. Though there is a thread on the downfall of Barca if I am not incorrect?

I hold Ronaldo to a higher standard than other players because their is only one player who is better than him at the moment. What he did against and Dortmund was not enough imo. They managed to get through against us but if Ronaldo can only start to influence the game once we go a man down that imo isn't good enough.
 
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