As opposed to a club who sacked Ancelotti and hired Benitez, you mean?
Cristiano Ronaldo | Summer 2015
- Thread starter RedSky
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
- Status
He's got a new app out, even more pointless than the last 5, probably.
A new line of underwears.
I don't know about most of you but it just feels weird to have him now again. It's like your girlfriend leaving you for her childhood sweetheart, and then when things are rocky and she's getting on, she wants to get back to you. I don't know but it doesn't exactly sit right. He is just not that into us and I think we should just move on. The other things which is more practical is that I am not even sure he would help us win trophies. Yes he does score a ridiculous amount of goals and he will be top scorer here if he came but at what expense? The whole team has to play through him and cover for him. At Madrid they are already talking about whether it would be better if the load was shared defensively and offensively and when you look at their consistent falling short in the big competition and in the big games, I really think it is a very legitimate point.
Yes, Benitez, who is quite a good manager.
And Madrid have scored bucket loads under ever lesser managers so it's hardly like he's no longer part of a brilliant attack that works.
I did
And won very little in his time there, for all their goals.
At least he's getting the goals and in contention for all the awards. And his team didn't miss la liga by much, and reached the champions league semis. We hardly look like winning more than Madrid ATM as well.
I am not saying that Madrid haven't made some mistakes or that they couldn't have done certain things better, but I really do not think that United would have done any better in terms of trophies if they were competing with the Barcelona teams that Madrid have been up against over the years. They have been a tougher opponent than City or Chelsea have been, to say the least.
Which means bugger all. He's won very few trophies there, that's the most important thing.
Anyway, I'm not suggesting we're a better destination for him or anything, but I really don't think Real are in an overly great shape, nor has he achieved close to as many trophies there as he should have.
You were clearly very unlucky to come up against that great Barcelona side, but I still think the club underachieved, your squads were incredible too.
I think it's a bit naive to think we would be guaranteed titles. We managed to get falcao 4 goals from about 9 chances all season, we don't actually make chances
But it's niave to try to predict ANYTHING prior to ANYTHING happening. We'll be better next season for chance creation. However, Ronaldo even by himself would mean teams more wary of us and with better quality, we'll be alright
Still hes 30 and you could argue his best years are behind him. Even if he comes to us and is half the player he was he'd still be twice any other player in the league but we wont be signing him.
I really don't understand this argument when defending Real Madrid's record. Of course they were up against a phenomenal Barcelona side but one has to ask why couldn't Real produce a squad that could compete? They had the same if not more resources, the brand, the support and an ever bigger status and yet one produced 2 or 3 great winning machines, one of them was arguably the best of all time whereas the other created a fairly competitive team that won the occasional trophy every now and then. To say that's an underachievement is an understatement to be honest. The other point you make is whereas we would have done better to which I would say it's simply impossible to tell because teams build according to the nature of their league and their specific circumstances. If we were set in Spain with the conditions in that league and we had the same finances as Real Madrid, I would consider it equally unacceptable to not be able to compete with Barcelona. The bottom line and only measurable variable is that Real Madrid over the past 7 or 8 years have achieved less than Barcelona, Man United, Chelsea, Bayern Munich and depending how high you consider the CL, that list would include Juventus, Atlético and Dortmund. That is beyond unacceptable for a club that likes to talk like they're the big dog.
Coming to us will mean bugger all too, since he has a better chance at winning trophies there and a better chance of scoring more goals.
Real are in pretty great shape. Look through their squad. It's fantastic. Just because Barca are great doesn't mean he doesn't care about the quality of team he's at.
Great
Not such exciting news then..
I should have clarified, I don't know if he has a new app out, I should have said Probably got... still... he's not gonna announce a transfer like that.
Me!
I am more amazed at ppl being shocked that someone dares to vote "No".
We are talking about huge money for a 30 year old who has completely forgotten what it is like to be a team player.
Still can't get my head around these people obsessed we don't overspend! Who cares? If they can afford it then sod it. I want the best players, not decent ones for decent prices.
That is highly debatable.
He has a greater chance of winning trophies in England, Scotland or Malta that aren't the CL. I don't see the appeal in coming back to United from his perspective, he's won everything there is to win in England.
Barcelona have dominated every competition that they were in over the last ten years. It is obviously more difficult to compete with them than what other teams who have won league titles in other countries have had to. Why haven't other teams with great resources been able to stop Barcelona in the CL over the last 10 years like you think Madrid should have in the league. That is not to say Madrid should relax and just say "Barca are too tough to beat" and give up of course.
Barcelona did things better over the past ten years, that is how Madrid could not "compete" like you say. They have bought better and smarter than every team in Europe and they have produced better players than every team in Europe. If you made a best 11 of the last ten or so seasons, then it would comprise of mostly Barcelona players. They have done things very well and I have to hold my hand up and say well done to them. They have done everything better and more intelligently than Madrid and every team in Europe have. In certain cases Madrid certainly should have done better I agree, but for us to have produced better sides than what Barcelona have done since Guardiola took over(heck even the Ronaldinho team is better than any team the Premier league has produced over the last ten years IMO) is asking for perfection (it is not just Madrid who have fallen way short of that). No matter how much money Madrid have, they couldn't have signed players of the quality of the likes of Messi, Iniesta, Xavi apart from Ronaldo (who is not as team orientated as them) and it is a big ask of Madrid (or any top club where there is little patience and instant success is demanded) to expect them to have created a consistent philosophy like Barcelona have where they can change coaches and continue without needing much time to adapt (no top club in Europe has a philosophy as well established or as clearly defined as Barcelona).
Other teams have lots of resources too and they haven't had anywhere near as much success as Barcelona have had. Fair enough if you think that is not good enough but I hope you apply those standards to other teams also. Other than Barcelona, Madrid have won the CL as much as any other team has done in the last ten years and have done well in terms of getting far in the competition over the last few seasons. Don't get me wrong, I want the team to be doing better also, but you are giving other teams whose great resources you seem to be ignoring a much easier ride than what you are giving Madrid, despite Madrid competing with a much tougher adversary.
United have great resources and regardless of the league they are in, their desire is to be the best in the world on a regular basis just like Madrid's. But just like Madrid, they have not come close to reaching Barcelona's level of dominance in the CL (the only competition that both Madrid and United share).
Fair enough, but Madrid, while they have made mistakes in terms of transfers, have still been very strong and competitive over the last few years (as evidenced by them winning the CL in addition to reaching at least the semi-finals since 2011) and only Barcelona and Bayern have done better than Madrid in that competition over the last few seasons. So not only does that show that Madrid have been doing better than United, Chelsea and the other teams that you claimed have done better than Madrid over the last few years in the only competition that they compete together in, it also shows that Madrid have been consistently competitive and that Barcelona have still been too good for Madrid to beat. If Barcelona have been as good and as worthy of all the praise that they have been receiving over the years, then surely Madrid who have pushed them very close in title races over the years couldn't be as bad as you are making out. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Madrid should be patting themselves on the back or anything, but things are nowhere near as bad as you are making them out to be.
Kind of you to choose 7 or 8 years, it seems quite selective. Normally people would choose either 5 years or 10 years. Over the last 10 years Madrid have won 1 CL and 3 league titles. United have won 1 CL and 5 league titles (and IMO wouldn't have won the 08/09, 10/11 or 12/13 titles if they were competing with Barcelona those years), Chelsea have won 1 CL and 4 league titles since 04/05 (IMO they would not have won the 09/10 one or this seasons one if they were competing with Barcelona). I also do not rate success in a league where the top teams (United, Chelsea, City and Liverpool who finished 2nd the year before) regularly go out in the group stage of the CL as highly as you do, but that is just me. Personally I do not think Bayern would have won their league titles in 09/10 or this season if they were up against Barcelona either.
Many people would consider Madrid to be a better team than Chelsea this season because of them pushing a strong Barcelona teams until late on in the season and going further in the CL, but I am sure you think that it is Chelsea who are better for winning a weaker league and I am sure you will ignore their embarrassing CL campaign (but if it was Madrid who went out early I am sure you would mention it). In regards to Juventus, yes I think Madrid have done better than them over the last few seasons. They have not had the toughest of competition in their league over the last few seasons and they have not being doing very well in Europe (apart from this one) for quite a while.
Like I said already, Madrid should be doing things better and things are far from perfect, but other than Barcelona and Bayern, there is no team that I feel has done better than Madrid over the last few years (since 10/11) and a lot of the "success" that these other teams are having would be much smaller if they were competing with Barcelona over the last 10 years. Things are far from perfect and there are things the club should be doing much better, but nowhere near as bad as you make out and Madrid are not behind as many teams as you claim.
Last edited:
I don't really blame Madrids shortcomings on him, I don't buy into that theory. Playing Kroos as your most defensively minded midfielder alongside Isco and James was the problem in the CL and they came up against a formidable opponent in the league in Barca.
We finished 4th this season and weren't in the champions league. Madrid finished two point off the top and reached the semi finals of the CL. No one knows what will happen in the future but as things stand, Madrid is obviously the better bet.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with this way of looking at things. Every league has different dynamics. If we were in la liga we would be more attractive to players from Latin America, Spain I.e the absolute best players in the world. We would also have a bigger distance between us and those below us which does help Madrid and barca become even better. So while you have the disadvantage of being in la liga being competing with the best team of this generation and all that, you also have advantages of being in that league that teams in other leagues sometimes don't.
That is a fair point. But Barcelona have done everything (ie buying players, producing players, establishing a consistent and clear philosophy and identity etc) better than every other team in Europe has over the last ten or so years. No team has made near as much out of their resources on such a consistent basis like they have done. Chelsea and City have not gotten as close to 100% out of the resources at their disposal as Barcelona have with theirs. So even though there are those advantages and different dynamics that you mention, Barcelona have made much more of what they have than what Chelsea and City have and they have made less mistakes than them also, so I still think that even with those dynamics and advantages that you mention, it has still been tougher for Madrid to win leagues than United. All IMO of course. And once again, I stress that I am not for one second saying that Madrid should not have done or managed things better than they have done.
Has to be either a new contract or clothing line.
He's finally coming out.
@Raoul I am not going to respond to every point you have made as I think we are not really that far off in our views. We both agree that Barcelona have done a brilliant job whereas Real Madrid have come up short in comparison. We disagree that this is justifiable as for me I think, with the conditions afforded in the Spanish league, Real Madrid had an advantage over clubs anywhere else. I cannot of course prove this but I still do feel that most of their shortcomings have been mainly due to their refusal to build a philosophy and vision at the club. They are run as if a fan on the Caf would run a football club in the sense that they just think it's simply a matter of putting an established world class player in each position and the rest will take care of itself. Whereas that will make competitive, it won't make you part of the elite. In fact, I would even go as far as agree with you that the rest of Europe and especially English teams have been unacceptable as well in recent years and I blame this on the simplistic mentality English clubs approach the game.
We play Barcelona and get schooled and the only conclusion we come up with is "we need to buy better". Whereas they have not been shy of buying, they have in addition of that, a lot of other things going for them like you point out; their vision, youth development and structure that runs throughout the club. Bayern seemed to have realized that and decided to appoint Pep as they thought he might bring that structure to their club and it remains to be seen if that is going to work or not whereas in England, we applaud a manager whose football plan amounts to doing whatever necessary to stop and destroy. Sorry for the rant but I just find the lack of competition to Barcelona very frustrating in the European game.
P.S: I used the 7 or 8 year span because that is when they started their new Galactico era which I took an attempt to do better in Europe and rival Barcelona so I really was not cherry picking for the sake of my argument but I understand why it might have come across that way.
We play Barcelona and get schooled and the only conclusion we come up with is "we need to buy better". Whereas they have not been shy of buying, they have in addition of that, a lot of other things going for them like you point out; their vision, youth development and structure that runs throughout the club. Bayern seemed to have realized that and decided to appoint Pep as they thought he might bring that structure to their club and it remains to be seen if that is going to work or not whereas in England, we applaud a manager whose football plan amounts to doing whatever necessary to stop and destroy. Sorry for the rant but I just find the lack of competition to Barcelona very frustrating in the European game.
P.S: I used the 7 or 8 year span because that is when they started their new Galactico era which I took an attempt to do better in Europe and rival Barcelona so I really was not cherry picking for the sake of my argument but I understand why it might have come across that way.
Honestly, the club wouldnt spend money if it couldnt. It's a business, a huge global business.
Making 100s of millions. How? Because it doesnt spend 100s of millions unless it knows it will profit from it.
Really bugs me when people get so bothered about how much the club spends. Do you know how much we'd make from actually signing ronaldo? Resigning Ronaldo would be the biggest transfer in our history, commercially we'd smash through the roof...
When we didn't spend , people whined
Now we are spending , people still whine
Some folks are never happy.
Apart from the financial aspect of him costing too much (which I do not know why people care), how can ANYONE suggest that Ronaldo to United would not be a step forward?
Madrid are competing with Barca, we have Chelsea to contend with...
Seems some cant wrap their heads around those 38% 
We finished 4th, they finished 2 points off. They're far closer to their competition than we are even if our competition is weaker.
Well i'm sure Leeds fans were saying similar in the early 2000' when overspending for any player that caught interest,
Obviously we're not in a position to quite do a Leeds thanks to our current marketing income but ideally you'd still want WISE investment?, rather than doing more 60mill Di Maria deals.
Selling Ronaldo for 80mill and giving his peak years all to Madrid and buying him back when 30-31 for 100mill wouldn't be the wisest investment,there's certainly a solid arguement to be formed that the 100mill could be better spent on several world class players of far younger age.
But regarldess, Ronaldo isn't leaving, and certainly not to a team he fought tooth and nail to leave 3 seasons out of 6 while there.
Last edited:
He's at Madrid and they're still weaker than Barca, with him, we'd be better than Chelsea
- Status