Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr

[Member 117152]

He was always a narcisstic prick, tons of examples of that but all overshadowed by his on-field success and successful online persona that markets him as a one of a leader, challenger and all the other BS while his antics were just a reflection of a typical narcissistic person.

His latest full-force toxic behavior has coincided with United's failure to join the CL, Ronaldo missing the CL the first time in his career... nothing to do with the tragic death of his child.. That explains his desperation to join a CL team in the summer, missing the pre-season (CL records mean a lot for him, it eats him inside not playing there). You would think after his humbling experience in the transfer market during the summer (no CL team was willing to get him), he would be ok with benched. But, noooo, he is Ronaldo, how dare Ten Hag could bench him? and all his antics.. Piers interview etc.

All above has zero to do with the tragic death of his child again, but all to do with him missing CL the first time in his career, not accepting being benched, not accepting he is no longer a top player.. A narcissist's true colors are most revealed when they abruptly fell from grace like Ronaldo's case. Similar things happened with Portugal in the WC. The moment he was benched, the guy went crazy again..

This is probably more to the truth. Fans of the guy try and justify him on a personal level so he can relate to their lives.

We see the same with Elon Musk. Multi billionaire, silver spooned spoilt manchild who the deluded masses think is on their side. He’s not and that’s a fact.

I still like Ronaldo as a footballer. As a man just like Giggs in his personal life, don’t like the bloke. Giggs was more distasteful as a human maybe.

Giggs at 37 was better at football than Ronaldo at 37 however that’s for damn sure.

I don’t even know how that is even an argument apart from Ronaldo die hards screaming it. Either that or people have short memories.

Giggs had so much class on the ball in his later years despite his awful personal life.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

I still think he was a better performer than giggs, just not in those two specific atletico games you referenced, I gave you a reason why that was the case

You can keep thinking that. But he wasn’t.
And no, harping about how Ronaldo "wasn't rested. It impacted him!" Isn't a reason to explain why he was a better performer.

Try again, and come up with something better.

 

[jm99]

If Ronaldo was substituted he spat the dummy and sulked like a big baby, if he was rested it was disrespectful and when he was asked to go on the pitch late on he refused and walked out of the stadium. He wanted to play every match and when he didn`t get his own way he did his interview with Piers . The man is a feckin bellend and its funny as feck watching him struggling to control a ball in South Africa.

And yet, Zidane was able to manage his minutes back when he was still arguably the best player in the world at real Madrid, winning champions leagues. Solskjaer and rangnick just were far too weak to do that, but the idea it wasn't possible is totally refuted by how Zidane did it at real

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

This is probably more to the truth. The facts are because he is a popular personality fans of the guy try and justify him on a personal level so he can relate to their lives.

We see the same with Elon Musk. Multi billionaire, silver spooned spoilt man child who the masses think is on their side. He’s not and that’s a fact.

I still like Ronaldo as a footballer. As a man just like Giggs in his personal life, don’t like the bloke .

Giggs at 37 was better at football than Ronaldo at 37 however that’s for damn sure.

I don’t even know how that is even an argument apart from Ronaldo die hards screaming it. Either that or people have short memories.

Giggs had so much class on the ball in his later years.

Try Ronaldo diehards who clearly weren't watching during that season.

 

[jm99]

You can keep thinking that. But he wasn’t.
And no, harping about how Ronaldo "wasn't rested. It impacted him!" Isn't a reason to explain why he was a better performer.

Try again, and come up with something better.

Why don't you come up with something better than "but he wasnt" that's just an opinion. Ronaldo was the third top scorer in the league, giggs had some good games but nowhere close to that

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

And yet, Zidane was able to manage his minutes back when he was still arguably the best player in the world at real Madrid, winning champions leagues. Solskjaer and rangnick just were far too weak to do that, but the idea it wasn't possible is totally refuted by how Zidane did it at real

You're repeating your excuses. How his minutes were managed are irrelevant to the discussion. The comparison is level of performance.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Why don't you come up with something better than "but he wasnt" that's just an opinion. Ronaldo was the third top scorer in the league, giggs had some good games but nowhere close to that

You do realise that saying Ronaldo was better was an opinion, don't you?
Giggs was dominating the highest stages - the UCL KO stages - while Ronaldo went missing in his. But you can keep trying to come up with a better reason.

 

[jm99]

This is probably more to the truth. The facts are because he is a popular personality fans of the guy try and justify him on a personal level so he can relate to their lives.

We see the same with Elon Musk. Multi billionaire, silver spooned spoilt man child who the masses think is on their side. He’s not and that’s a fact.

I still like Ronaldo as a footballer. As a man just like Giggs in his personal life, don’t like the bloke .

Giggs at 37 was better at football than Ronaldo at 37 however that’s for damn sure.

I don’t even know how that is even an argument apart from Ronaldo die hards screaming it. Either that or people have short memories.

Giggs had so much class on the ball in his later years.

Tbh at the time i felt that not as much in 2010-11 but in 2012-13 people hugely overrated how good giggs and Scholes still were, we got totally overrun game after game when they started in cm, and when they got taken off we made a comeback. Even though Anderson and cleverly weren't fantastic by any means, whenever one of them came on for for giggs or Scholes it totally changed the game. Towards the end of the season I was genuinely pissed off when I saw their names in the starting lineup, the worst was the home game vs spurs, where bale scored almost instantly because there basically was no cm in front of the defenders, I think they both started that game

 

[djembatheking]

And yet, Zidane was able to manage his minutes back when he was still arguably the best player in the world at real Madrid, winning champions leagues. Solskjaer and rangnick just were far too weak to do that, but the idea it wasn't possible is totally refuted by how Zidane did it at real

True, Ten Hag sorted the prick though and we are a much better team for it.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Tbh at the time i felt that not as much in 2010-11 but in 2012-13 people hugely overrated how good giggs and Scholes still were, we got totally overrun game after game when they started in cm, and when they got taken off we made a comeback. Even though Anderson and cleverly weren't fantastic by any means, whenever one of them came on for for giggs or Scholes it totally changed the game. Towards the end of the season I was genuinely pissed off when I saw their names in the starting lineup, the worst was the home game vs spurs, where bale scored almost instantly because there basically was no cm in front of the defenders, I think they both started that game

But the discussion is 2011. Because that's how old Ronaldo is. We will see how good Ronaldo is at 39 which is how old Giggs was in 2013, but seeing as how he can't cut it in Europe anymore, I suspect he'd lose that argument as well.

 

[jm99]

You do realise that saying Ronaldo was better was an opinion, don't you?
Giggs was dominating the highest stages - the UCL KO stages - while Ronaldo went missing in his. But you can keep trying to come up with a better reason.

Yes of course its an opinion, but you keep saying I have to come up with something better when you don't. Ronaldo was disappointing in those games, but I thought he was better over the season.

I'll assume though that in other arguments say Ronaldo Messi, the fact Ronaldo has a far better record in the ucl knockouts and particularly the quarter finals onwards, suddenly you won't value those performances quite as much

 

[jm99]

But the discussion is 2011. Because that's how old Ronaldo is. We will see how good Ronaldo is at 39 which is how old Giggs was in 2013, but seeing as how he can't cut it in Europe anymore, I suspect he'd lose that argument as well.

I mentioned that as a reply to someone who said giggs had so much class later in his career because it was something still getting said in 2013 by pundits, and his later career tends to get overrated because he had an occasional magical assist

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Yes of course its an opinion, but you keep saying I have to come up with something better when you don't. Ronaldo was disappointing in those games, but I thought he was better over the season.

I'll assume though that in other arguments say Ronaldo Messi, the fact Ronaldo has a far better record in the ucl knockouts and particularly the quarter finals onwards, suddenly you won't value those performances quite as much

I already pointed our how Giggs performed better in the bigger matches. You've replied by harping on about how Ronaldo was not resteed enough.

Not sure what Messi has to do with this thread (it's hillarious how Ronaldo fanboys constantly bring him into discussions that have nothing to do with him). Try sticking to the thread topic.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

I mentioned that as a reply to someone who said giggs had so much class later in his career because it was something still getting said in 2013 by pundits, and his later career tends to get overrated because he had an occasional magical assist

Not to anyone who was actually watching. It is rated because his game aged well and he was still a pretty good player at 39. Atleast good enough to play at a top side in the EPL. Let's say how the guy who's at the Saudi league will be doing at that age.

 

[jm99]

True, Ten Hag sorted the prick though and we are a much better team for it.

I'm not arguing he wasn't done by this season, but I do think part of that was that he was overused last year in a league that's far faster than Italy when he was another year older. If we'd had ten hag from last summer I think we'd have had two years of good performances and he'd have been dropped more last season. I think part of the issue this season is that the games he played he wasn't really performing, but I think if he was reated then scoring the games he played he'd have taken it much better

 

[jm99]

I already pointed our how Giggs performed better in the bigger matches. You've replied by harping on about how Ronaldo was not resteed enough.

Not sure what Messi has to do with this thread (it's hillarious how Ronaldo fanboys constantly bring him into discussions that have nothing to do with him). Try sticking to the thread topic.

Because in other threads you say CL knockouts aren't the best metric to judge a player yet in this thread they are. I think they are the best metric though taking just two isolated games and saying someone didn't perform seems odd as a way to judge them

 

[Lay]

Get a room guys

 

[jm99]

Not to anyone who was actually watching. It is rated because his game aged well and he was still a pretty good player at 39. Atleast good enough to play at a top side in the EPL. Let's say how the guy who's at the Saudi league will be doing at that age.

He really wasn't, in 2013 he and Scholes were both liabilities, any time they played you felt as though we'd be a goal or two down by half time, they'd come off and we'd win 3-2. I don't know how often that actually happened but it felt as though it must have been 5 or 6 times that season, I know we did get an incredible number of points from comebacks and often that was after substituting one of them

 

[djembatheking]

I'm not arguing he wasn't done by this season, but I do think part of that was that he was overused last year in a league that's far faster than Italy when he was another year older. If we'd had ten hag from last summer I think we'd have had two years of good performances and he'd have been dropped more last season. I think part of the issue this season is that the games he played he wasn't really performing, but I think if he was reated then scoring the games he played he'd have taken it much better

No chance, he would have just been fecked off sooner cos Ten Hag wouldn`t put up with his sulky shit disrupting the squad as well as Ronaldo being unable to play high tempo football. Keep posting though Piers cos your love for captain bellend is almost as comical as watching him trying to control a ball.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Because in other threads you say CL knockouts aren't the best metric to judge a player yet in this thread they are. I think they are the best metric though taking just two isolated games and saying someone didn't perform seems odd as a way to judge them

But Ronaldo didn't perform in the UCL KO stages at 37. Giggs did. Not sure what the tangential drivel about Messi is about.

Try to stick to the topic.

 

[jm99]

No chance, he would have just been fecked off sooner cos Ten Hag wouldn`t put up with his sulky shit disrupting the squad as well as Ronaldo being unable to play high tempo football. Keep posting though Piers cos your love for captain bellend is almost as comical as watching him trying to control a ball.

But he didn't do that at Madrid when he was a much better player, which is the point I made. He didn't tell Zidane to feck off for resting him in various games

 

[jm99]

But Ronaldo didn't perform in the UCL KO stages at 37. Giggs did. Not sure what the tangential drivel about Messi is about.

Try to stick to the topic.

The tangent about Messi is that in other threads you've argued that performance in the CL knockouts isn't the best way to judge players because it isn't as favourable to your idol, yet you've totally changed that in this thread. Ronaldo played 2 CL knockout games for us, it's a very small sample size to go off of.

I notice you've totally ignored trying to answer why ten hag isn't on course to beat ole's 20/21 points total with an additional 350m of players added since then. Is it because it doesn't fit into your argument that the team was amazing before Ronaldo joined and he brought it down?

 

[Member 117152]

Why don't you come up with something better than "but he wasnt" that's just an opinion. Ronaldo was the third top scorer in the league, giggs had some good games but nowhere close to that

Giggs had just won 3 Prem titles in a row at that age. He was certainly at a higher level in the sport at the time than Ronaldo past 12 months or so.

When did Ronaldo last go deep in Europe too? Giggs was doing it at 37 in a side nearing the end of its lifecycle.

The eye test is the main one though and again Giggs wins that at 37. His overall play was just superior. Passing, skills had the lot.

I do 100% agree the seasons after that until Giggs retired, he and Scholes weren’t particularly great which is understandable.

Scholes coming back from retirement was embarrassing for a big club and typical Glazernomics.

You just can’t have two super old players unless one is named Seedorf. He was a beast.

I see people mentioning Zidane. The only thing Ronaldo and Zidane have in common is both played for Madrid, it’s a nothing point.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

He really wasn't, in 2013 he and Scholes were both liabilities, any time they played you felt as though we'd be a goal or two down by half time, they'd come off and we'd win 3-2. I don't know how often that actually happened but it felt as though it must have been 5 or 6 times that season, I know we did get an incredible number of points from comebacks and often that was after substituting one of them

Not really. He was pretty good even at 39. And his performances against Everton and Villa in the title clincher were pretty good (the latter of which was arguably better than any Ronaldo premier league performance after turning 37).

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

The tangent about Messi is that in other threads you've argued that performance in the CL knockouts isn't the best way to judge players because it isn't as favourable to your idol, yet you've totally changed that in this thread. Ronaldo played 2 CL knockout games for us, it's a very small sample size to go off of.

I notice you've totally ignored trying to answer why ten hag isn't on course to beat ole's 20/21 points total with an additional 350m of players added since then. Is it because it doesn't fit into your argument that the team was amazing before Ronaldo joined and he brought it down?

Buddy. I never mentioned UCL KO stages in any other thread and I welcome you to pull up those posts. You're wasting my time desperately trying to derail the thread with Messi nonsense. If I were interested in that discussion, I'd bring up Messi's MOTM awards in finals and match ratings. I also wouldn't bother using the UCL but would focus on the world cup Ko stages.

But again, you're ignoring the main discussion. Which is that the team regressed as soon as Ronalso joined and immediately improved its position, and goals as soon as he left.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Giggs had just won 3 Prem titles in a row at that age. He was certainly at a higher level in the sport at the time than Ronaldo past 12 months or so.

When did Ronaldo last go deep in Europe too? Giggs was doing it at 37 in a side nearing the end of its lifecycle.

The eye test is the main one though and again Giggs wins that at 37. His overall play was just superior. Passing, skills had the lot.

I do 100% agree the seasons after that until Giggs retired him and Scholes weren’t particularly great which is understandable.

You just can’t have two super old players unless one is named Seedorf. His stamina was legendary!

I see people mentioning Zidane. The only thing Ronaldo and Zidane have in common is both played for Madrid, it’s a nothing point.

Eye test. Average match rating. Goal contributions in the big matches. It isn't really rhat close regarding who was a better player.

 

[jm99]

Giggs had just won 3 Prem titles in a row at that age. He was certainly at a higher level in the sport at the time than Ronaldo past 12 months or so.

When did Ronaldo last go deep in Europe too? Giggs was doing it at 37 in a side nearing the end of its lifecycle.

The eye test is the main one though and again Giggs wins that at 37. His overall play was just superior. Passing, skills had the lot.

I see people mentioning Zidane. The only thing Ronaldo and Zidane have in common is both played for Madrid, it’s a nothing point.

I'm mentioning Zidane solely as a manager. Because he managed Ronaldo at real Madrid

Well giggs actually won 3 league titles in a row in at 35, ronaldos 3 seasons before 35 were two league titles and a champions league. Our run to the final in 2011 was pretty easy tbh. Marvelled, Chelsea and Schalke was one of the kinder runs you'll see, I don't remember anyone expecting us to give Barca a challenge in the final, to the point it was basically assumed that whoever won their semi final would win the champions league.

2010-2012 was actually quite a weird point in european football because Madrid and Barca were legitimately incredible, both arguably fielding all time level sides, and the rest of Europe was pretty weak, most pl sides had declined from a few years prior, bayern were OK but not at the level they resched in 2013, the Italian teams were declining massively and inter getting past Barca was a miracle, same with Chelsea in 2012. Psg and city weren't the oil giants they are now, so while obviously reaching the final was an achievement it was quite a kind run

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

I'm mentioning Zidane solely as a manager. Because he managed Ronaldo at real Madrid

Well giggs actually won 3 league titles in a row in at 35, ronaldos 3 seasons before 35 were two league titles and a champions league. Our run to the final in 2011 was pretty easy tbh. Marvelled, Chelsea and Schalke was one of the kinder runs you'll see, I don't remember anyone expecting us to give Barca a challenge in the final, to the point it was basically assumed that whoever won their semi final would win the champions league.

2010-2012 was actually quite a weird point in european football because Madrid and Barca were legitimately incredible, both arguably fielding all time level sides, and the rest of Europe was pretty weak, most pl sides had declined from a few years prior, bayern were OK but not at the level they resched in 2013, the Italian teams were declining massively and inter getting past Barca was a miracle, same with Chelsea in 2012. Psg and city weren't the oil giants they are now, so while obviously reaching the final was an achievement it was quite a kind run

Sounds like an excuse to diminish what Giggs did in the UCL that year, which is much more than Ronaldo was able to.
Chelsea in the quarters were a tougher challenge than the Atletico that Ronaldo no-showed against in our KO stage UCL games.

 

[jm99]

Buddy. I never mentioned UCL KO stages in any other thread and I welcome you to pull up those posts. You're wasting my time desperately trying to derail the thread with Messi nonsense. If I were interested in that discussion, I'd bring up Messi's MOTM awards in finals and match ratings. I also wouldn't bother using the UCL but would focus on the world cup Ko stages.

But again, you're ignoring the main discussion. Which is that the team regressed as soon as Ronalso joined and immediately improved its position, and goals as soon as he left.

But the level now, after 350m spent seems to be on course for the same as the season before Ronaldo joined, so either ten hag is worse than solskjaer as a manager which i don't think anyone believes, or a season which the data shows significantly reduced home advantage led to a side that was predominately counter attacking doing much better than their actual level

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

But the level now, after 350m spent seems to be on course for the same as the season before Ronaldo joined, so either ten hag is worse than solskjaer as a manager which i don't think anyone believes, or a season which the data shows significantly reduced home advantage led to a side that was predominately counter attacking doing much better than their actual level

Again, you keep repeating the same bizarre rant. None of this comparison of points totals between seasons has anything to do with the fact that United regressed from 2nd to 6th when the offense was built around Ronaldo and improved again when he left.

You can keep engaging in me tal gymnastics and come up with the excuses about crowds but it really doesn't explain your point.

Still waiting for you to pull out my "many posts about the UCL KO stages". Don't come here, make up alternative facts and run away when called out on it.

 

[jm99]

Sounds like an excuse to diminish what Giggs did in the UCL that year, which is much more than Ronaldo was able to.
Chelsea in the quarters were a tougher challenge than the Atletico that Ronaldo no-showed against in our KO stage UCL games.

Again, I'm not arguing Ronaldo was disappointing in those games, but it's two games, it's far too small a sample size to judge an entire season on. It shows basically no understanding of statistics to use two games like that. If you walked down the street asked two people who they were going to vote for at the next general election and both said the green party, you'd be wise not to think that means the greens would be walking into downing street. No one would ever seriously use a sample size of two to make judgments.

I would say simeone's atletico are better than that Chelsea, I believe they'd just spunked 50m on torres in the transfer window and they were pretty poor. Atletico had just won the league in 2020-21 which as you're so keen on saying, the way a team performed the season before can't ever be a fluke or aberration so they must have been the best team in Spain by your admission

 

[jm99]

Again, you keep repeating the same bizarre rant. None of this comparison of points totals between seasons has anything to do with the fact that United regressed from 2nd to 6th when the offense was built around Ronaldo and improved again when he left.

You can keep engaging in me tal gymnastics and come up with the excuses about crowds but it really doesn't explain your point.

Still waiting for you to pull out my "many posts about the UCL KO stages". Don't come here, make up alternative facts and run away when called out on it.

Maybe I've confused you with another of the rabid Messi fanboys if so I apologise for that. You seem to be ignoring that United spent 250m in the summer, and that the only difference from last season is Ronaldo leaving, literally spending a quarter billion and getting a player like eriksen who'd be worth about 30-40m for free, but to you it's just that Ronaldo left

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Again, I'm not arguing Ronaldo was disappointing in those games, but it's two games, it's far too small a sample size to judge an entire season on. It shows basically no understanding of statistics to use two games like that. If you walked down the street asked two people who they were going to vote for at the next general election and both said the green party, you'd be wise not to think that means the greens would be walking into downing street. No one would ever seriously use a sample size of two to make judgments.

I would say simeone's atletico are better than that Chelsea, I believe they'd just spunked 50m on torres in the transfer window and they were pretty poor. Atletico had just won the league in 2020-21 which as you're so keen on saying, the way a team performed the season before can't ever be a fluke or aberration so they must have been the best team in Spain by your admission

It's only a small sample because we didn't beat the team we were favored to beat because of his no-show. While Giggs more than showed up in our KO stages in 2011.

Your last paragraph is laughable. It's as if you don't realise Chelsea were EPL AND FA cup champions when we beat them in the Champions League. Very few people would think Atletico in 2022 are as good as that Chelsea.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Maybe I've confused you with another of the rabid Messi fanboys if so I apologise for that. You seem to be ignoring that United spent 250m in the summer, and that the only difference from last season is Ronaldo leaving, literally spending a quarter billion and getting a player like eriksen who'd be worth about 30-40m for free, but to you it's just that Ronaldo left

You certainly fit the bill of a rabid Ronaldo fanboy so I would expect you to repeatedly spam threads with Messi references when unprompted and get emotional about it. I told you several times that I have no clue why you keep bringing Messi into an irrelevant discussion and you weren't interested in sticking to the thread topic. You can apologise all you want but you're better off just focusing on what you're saying rather than spouting alternative facts.

I'm not ignoring the fact that money was spent. But the biggest factor is that the entire offense wasn't built around the guy who saw us plummet from 2nd to 6th as soon as he joined.

 

[jm99]

You certainly fit the bill of a rabid Ronaldo fanboy so I would expect you to repeatedly spam threads with Messi references when unprompted and get emotional about it.

I'm not ignoring the fact that money was spent. But the biggest factor is that the entire offense wasn't built around the guy who saw us plummet from 2nd to 6th as soon as he joined.

This time last season we had 37 points, we currently have 39, and we've replaced solskjaer/rangnick for a much better manager, added casemiro, eriksen, malacia, martinez and Antony but our two more points is down to dropping Ronaldo and a new manager and 250m of signings have contributed nothing? Is that what you're saying?

 

[The Firestarter]

This time last season we had 37 points, we currently have 39, and we've replaced solskjaer/rangnick for a much better manager, added casemiro, eriksen, malacia, martinez and Antony but our two more points is down to dropping Ronaldo and a new manager and 250m of signings have contributed nothing? Is that what you're saying?

This time last season meaning end of January or after 20 games?

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

This time last season we had 37 points, we currently have 39, and we've replaced solskjaer/rangnick for a much better manager, added casemiro, eriksen, malacia, martinez and Antony but our two more points is down to dropping Ronaldo and a new manager and 250m of signings have contributed nothing? Is that what you're saying?

Again we regressed from 2nd to 6th. we have now moved up the table to 3rd.

Not sure why you're comparing points totals 2 seasons apart

 

[Eplel]

This time last season we had 37 points, we currently have 39, and we've replaced solskjaer/rangnick for a much better manager, added casemiro, eriksen, malacia, martinez and Antony but our two more points is down to dropping Ronaldo and a new manager and 250m of signings have contributed nothing? Is that what you're saying?

Last season at 20 games we have 31 points, and not played with the top 2 team already.

 

[jm99]

This time last season meaning end of January or after 20 games?

After 20 games. I was actually very surprised myself when I saw that, I assumed there was going to be like 9 points less but even then my point would still be that most of the difference would be down to ten hag and the new signings, but for it only to be 2 points more was surprising

 

[jm99]

Again we regressed from 2nd to 6th. we have now moved up the table to 3rd.

Not sure why you're comparing points totals 2 seasons apart

That was last seasons points total, 37 after 20 games, this year we have 39. So how much of those two extra points are because we got rid of Ronaldo and how many are down to bringing in a much better manager and 250m of players?