He's right, in fairness. The two Ronaldo threads at the top of the caf list and it's you posting in them. Your level of obsession is unhealthy and pathological.
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
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That's fine mate. You're entitled to your opinion as it relates to this or any topic, as I said. And if you bring it up, I'll address it.
Giggs definitely aged better than Ronaldo in terms of what he continued to offer the team. Ronaldo was never a centre forward to begin with and he was always more reliant on his athleticism, which can perhaps explain his current struggles since he no longer has the pace to play on the wing.
Hit the nail on the head. Couldn't have said it any better about Ronaldo. The guy doesn't care for anyone but himself and projecting himself in a good image.
I mean I'll admit to being a Ronaldo fan, he won the ballon d'or with us, he won the champions league with us and he was a huge part of stopping what looked like was going to be Chelsea dominating the way city are dominating now.
But even I'm not watching him in Saudi Arabia whereas you seem to be scouring twitter to search out anything you can mock him for, it's a really odd vendetta you have, particularly if you're a United fan who saw his first run for us
I'd argue Ronaldo during the second half of last season was better than giggs in 2010-11, Ronaldo still had flashes where he was scoring hat tricks, giggs was also playing in a much stronger side, we weren't as good as the 06-09 team but our defence was still probably the best in Europe, and the team was better than last seasons
Yeah this is definitely a factor, while he moved to being a centre forward at juventus and back here, and still scored goals because he's a great goalscorer, it's a different skillset playing as a centre forward as opposed to a winger, it's a lot more playing with your back to goal which he isn't as good at
As I said things like scoring less goals can be affected by someone taking up positions on the field, but rashford at times couldn't beat a man, had an atrocious first touch and couldn't finish his dinner. That isn't the fault of another player that's a genuine loss of form
I wouldn't. It's a matter of opinion but I don't see many who would agree with you. Giggs was United's best and most consistent performer during the KO stages of the Champins League as we made the final and lost against Pep's Barcelona.
Not sure I get the relevance of the second point. We are comparing individual performances. The fact that Giggs was better at the same age is due to his individual performances being better than Ronaldo's.
I don't think it's a coincidence that many of our top players had a loss in form, as you put it, only to regain it immediately. But again, it's just a matter of how we see things.
Either way, glad Rashford is back. He was the most productive player in that season (37 goal contributions) and he's well on his way to matching that this year.
Well first of all, playing in a better side has a huge impact, particularly for someone playing the kind of role a 37 year old Ronaldo was, if he'd been at City last season hed have probably managed 25+ league goals. I remember after the second Newcastle game last year there was a video going around showing how many of his runs were totally missed by players. Second of all, Ronaldo played 700 minutes more than giggs did, giggs was in a stronger team that didn't rely on him so his minutes were managed far better.
Not to mention that basically every goal Ronaldo scored last season won us points very few were stat padding, 3 points against spurs both times, 3 points against arsenal at home 3 points against Norwich both times, 3 points against West ham and 1 point against Chelsea. That's 19 points won off his goals, they weren't regularly the 4th and 5th in routs they were goals that decided games.
Like I said I can see arguments for him occupying the spaces that Bruno might and that affecting his game or whatever, but losing the ability to do basic things like beat a man, that's not down to trying to accommodate another player. It's important to remember as well the season before cavani was still playing, and greenwood wasn't arrested, if those two had been available it would have allowed more rotation with Ronaldo plus a better option on the right hand side
The first paragraph contains a lot of speculation. We don't know how many goals Ronaldo would have scored at City because Guardiola decided that he wasn't interested in buying him.
You talk about the team being better in 2011 and that's true but again not really relevant when we are talking about indofuda performances. It wasn't as if Ronaldo was playing with scrubs. He was playing with a team that finished 2nd the year prior to his arrival and immediately improved after he left.
Lastly, comparing goal stats for Ronaldo in matches against Norwich and Co in a season in which we finished 6th in the league after building our offense around him, to Giggs' goal contributions in UCL KO games and title deciders is silly. Giggs played in bigger matches and performed really well in those big matches.
You can keep repeating that ad nauseum. But you're essentially arguing that it's a coincidence that Rashford, Bruno and most of our top performers ALL regressed that season and improved this season. Doesn't carry much weight.
He was always a narcisstic prick, tons of examples of that but all overshadowed by his on-field success and successful online persona that markets him as a one of a leader, challenger and all the other BS while his antics were just a reflection of a typical narcissistic person.
His latest full-force toxic behavior has coincided with United's failure to join the CL, Ronaldo missing the CL the first time in his career... nothing to do with the tragic death of his child.. That explains his desperation to join a CL team in the summer, missing the pre-season (CL records mean a lot for him, it eats him inside not playing there). You would think after his humbling experience in the transfer market during the summer (no CL team was willing to get him), he would be ok with benched. But, noooo, he is Ronaldo, how dare Ten Hag could bench him? and all his antics.. Piers interview etc.
All above has zero to do with the tragic death of his child again, but all to do with him missing CL the first time in his career, not accepting being benched, not accepting he is no longer a top player.. A narcissist's true colors are most revealed when they abruptly fell from grace like Ronaldo's case. Similar things happened with Portugal in the WC. The moment he was benched, the guy went crazy again..
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Ronaldo did also score winners or equalisers in just about champions league group game as well.
After Ronaldo left we spent 250m improving the team, the team that finished second was second with 74 points it wasn't as if he took Liverpool in 2018/19 and dragged them down to 6th. I'm sure you'd make the same argument for juventus that he made them worse even though after replacing him with one of the world's most sought after strikers they've scored less goals than they did with Ronaldo.
You can talk about coincidence but sometimes players do hit form or gain form, look at Arsenal this year, two signings, one of which is currently injured and the other has only played just above half of their league games, yet they've gone from fighting it out with us for 6th to on course for the joint highest points total I premier league history. Some seasons are just an aberration, and one with no fans in the stadiums that threw up results like villa beating Liverpool 7-2 and iirc the first season where there was basically no home advantage over the course of the season could absolutely count as that
Bruno scored 18 goals in 20/21 season in the PL with United finishing PL second.
Rashford/Martial each scored 17 in 19/20 in the PL with United finishing PL third.
With Ronaldo, United regressed heavily, just compare the number of goals United scored the season before him and the distribution of goals among the players..
I thought the Messi World Cup would've flushed out all the Ronaldo fanboys from here, but seem to be a few of them floating about still.
Fair play to them, I guess. Not sure if I'd able to do it if I was ever so wrong about something as they've been.
Fair play to them, I guess. Not sure if I'd able to do it if I was ever so wrong about something as they've been.
He didn't score in the Champions league at 37 (which is the comparison with Giggs) because our only KO matches were against Atletico, and he was one of the worst players on the pitch. A completely no show.
That's in contrast to a 37 year old Giggs being our best performer during that year's UCL KO stages.
The last bit is - again - essentially you repeating yourself saying it was all a coincidence that everyone regressed and that we shouldn't look into it. Carry on calling it an "aberration" if you want. Others see it for what it is.
Its all an "aberration". A coincidence, my friend. Nothing to see here. And certainly nothing AT ALL to do with the guy who had the entire offense built to supply him, whatsoever
In 19/20 we finished 3rd with 66 points the season before we finished 6th with the same total. Playing without crowds in 20/21 led to a significant difference as can be seen here
https://phys.org/news/2021-08-football-fans-reveals-effect-stadiums.html
Now for whatever reason, this benefited solskjaer's way of playing. The team was a mid 60 point level team, that exceeded this solely in one season where there were no crowds that threw up a lot of unusual results. We've improved now because we signed the best defensive midfielder in the world, got another top class midfielder for free and all in spent 250m in the summer and replacd a low level coach with a fantastic one.
Despite all that spending and the difference in quality of coach, we're still only on track for about 75 points this year, so either you figure that ten hag is basically no better than solskjaer and that the 250m of signings added nothing or the far more likely scenario that the team overperformed in a season that was very different and just reverted to type the next year
Its all an "aberration". A coincidence, my friend. Nothing to see here. And certainly nothing AT ALL to do with the guy who had the entire offense built to supply him, whatsoever
Exactly.. They made it sound like United was a nothing team having huge scoring problems before Ronaldo joined..
If anything, in terms of goal scoring, things at United began to go downhill with his arrival...
So because he scored goals a few months too early they don't count. They were scored in the season he turned 37 ffs, you really are incredibly bitter towards him, as others have said this level of hatred for someone you've never met seems a bit unhealthy
You could say the same for the opposite camp
Well that was literally the comparison. Both players at 37.
But either way not sure why it matters. Ronaldo was nowhere to be seen in our KO stage matches last season while Giggs was the best performer on the way to the final.
No need to get emotional and hysterical at the end there. Wipe those tears and stop lashing out like a child just because you're upset your idol gets criticised.
Amazing how emotional they get every time anything negative gets said about the guy. Doesn't sound stable or healthy, but that's just me.
It's not me taking gymnastics, ten hag has come in and spent 250m on the team that is largely unchanged from 20-21 except we added Varane and sancho, with Ronaldo gone that's the only lasting change and ten hag is just about on course for the same points total. So either ten hag is absolutely shit and should be doing way better, or far more likely, a season in which the data shows results significantly changed by not having crowds was somewhat of an anomaly. I know which one I feel is more likely to be true and its not the one that has solskjaer as a better manager than ten hag
You say it's not you engaging in mental gymnastics before literally repeating the mental gymnastics to explain why the team suddenly regressed when it decided to build its offense around him.
You can keep calling it an anomaly/abberation/fluke all you want. Or blame crowd sizes. Whatever helps you cope with the facts.
Our CL knockout stages last year were when we played a 37 year old Ronaldo 3 times in a week, and subbed him off once around the 80 minute mark, it was clear to anyone with working eyes that he was being run into the ground, Zidane knew he had to manage his minutes back when he was playing for madrid,nyet we didn't do it last year. It's no coincidence his performances declined in the middle of the season last year and picked up once we were out of Europe and the cups and he went back to mostly once a week. It's how he should have been used and the manager should have been strong enough to bench him even if ronaldos ego made him want to play every game
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to explain his poor performances when it really matters. But not sure why it's relevant either way. The only thing that does is that they were in fact poor performances. I'm not interested in why he performed poorly.
Why has the team regressed this year then. We've gotten rid of Ronaldo, we've spent 250m and we'll still only just about make the same points total as 20-21. Do you think ten hag is just a much worse manager than solskjaer, or has every other player regressed since then? Since there's no such thing as a fluke season you must have an explanation for how we've added the best dm in the world, and 180m worth of other players, and eriksen for free and still aren't on course to beat solskjaer's points total, never mind his position in the league
It's actually improved from last year. Not sure what alternatice reality you live in. But as soon as Ronaldo was no longer the focal point, United started to improve its performance level from last season's 6th spot.
Maybe you’d learn something if you started to be interested in why?
Planned, deliberate ignorance is not quite the Gotcha you think it is.
Playing a 37 year old for 250 minutes in a week is excuses
Have you ever watched football before and maybe work out why that was a managerial mistake?
Of course it's relevant, if we're comparing who's the better player at a certain age, one has the best ever manager properly playing him and controlling his minutes, the other has two managers who'd struggle to get a Premier league job playing him every single game, then of course it matters
Why would I be interested? The conversion is comparison of performances. If player X is dealing with a divorce which is impactin his level of play, it has no bearing on the fact that his level of play is below that of player y.
The "why" behind it is another conversation altogether.
From 2 years ago I'm asking, it's basically the same team except it's added Varane and 250m of other signings and sancho and eriksen. Why aren't we even on course to beat that seasons points total or finish second. Since you're sure there was no aberration in that season, it must be solely on merit, so why aren't we outperforming them with a new manager and what must be about 400m worth of extra players since then?
I haven't bothered until now to google how he's doing in Saudi Arabia. Not good apparently
Playing a 37 year old for 250 minutes in a week is excuses
Have you ever watched football before and maybe work out why that was a managerial mistake?
Of course it's relevant, if we're comparing who's the better player at a certain age, one has the best ever manager properly playing him and controlling his minutes, the other has two managers who'd struggle to get a Premier league job playing him every single game, then of course it matters
You're just repea yourself. I don't really care how many minutes Ronaldo was played all the mental gymnastics you've engaged in to explain his poor performances. You said that he was a vbetter performer than Giggs. That got rebutted. And you ended up coming up with every excuse under the sun to explain why he wasn't a better performer than giggs. Which was the original argument.
If Ronaldo was substituted he spat the dummy and sulked like a big baby, if he was rested it was disrespectful and when he was asked to go on the pitch late on he refused and walked out of the stadium. He wanted to play every match and when he didn`t get his own way he did his interview with Piers . The man is a feckin bellend and its funny as feck watching him struggling to control a ball in South Africa.
I still think he was a better performer than giggs, just not in those two specific atletico games you referenced, I gave you a reason why that was the case
Why on earth would we skip last year?
We went from 2nd to 6th and have climbed to 3rd this year. Our goal tally decreased and then picked up.And you're desperate to call it a fluke, which I find hillarious.