Cricket

Wish our players didn't have to play the IPL before the WC. As always, it has been a long year and it'd be a shame if they got injured, fatigued by the time WC rolls around.

Think this is a fantastic team..
 
EdWeatherall said:
Poor from England

Made a plodder with an average of 30 look a world beater scoring 200no
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Holder is a maturing into a world class all-rounder and that's a pretty rubbish assessment of his skills, he'd be one of England's best batsmen :D.
 
Ed, Holder is a fine player. Of course don't compare him with top players of top 3-4 nations but take into account the position he bats at and team he plays for. So often he has to do rescue act and in that many times he is left with option of taking risks for quick runs as there aren't many batsmen to come after him.
 
The Man Himself said:
Ed, Holder is a fine player. Of course don't compare him with top players of top 3-4 nations but take into account the position he bats at and team he plays for. So often he has to do rescue act and in that many times he is left with option of taking risks for quick runs as there aren't many batsmen to come after him.
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He'd bat higher up the order if he was good enough for that - he's not. Nothing wrong with what @EdWeatherall said.
 
Jennings gone. Never seen an opener so bad at knowing when he should be forward or back.
 
EdWeatherall said:
That’s the good thing with cricket; can back it up with stats

Before this test match;

http://m.espncricinfo.com/westindies/content/player/391485.html

He’s clearly getting better; but we made him look a world beater. He’s not that!
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I think the problem with cricket, actually, is that people too often take stats out of their context to argue abstract points. Watching Holder bat makes it clear he's not a 'plodder'. He's got a lot of talent with the bat, times the ball well, is solid in defence, and plays good shots.

If you take out his first couple of years, where he was a 23 year old kid and made captain because everything was falling to shit, he averages a very healthy 37 (higher, for example, than Ben Stokes).

There was a lot that went in Holder's favour, of course, (and likewise caveats that need to be raised in regards to his average) but you have to give him credit where credit is due. He's just a pretty good player these days.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I think the problem with cricket, actually, is that people too often take stats out of their context to argue abstract points. Watching Holder bat makes it clear he's not a 'plodder'. He's got a lot of talent with the bat, times the ball well, is solid in defence, and plays good shots.

If you take out his first couple of years, where he was a 23 year old kid and made captain because everything was falling to shit, he averages a very healthy 37 (higher, for example, than Ben Stokes).

There was a lot that went in Holder's favour, of course, (and likewise caveats that need to be raised in regards to his average) but you have to give him credit where credit is due. He's just a pretty good player these days.
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Calling 37 a very healthy average is the only abstract part of this post. We can slice this a 100 different ways and nitpick, but the reality is that he bats 8 for a middling WI side and there's nothing wrong in bemoaning a 200 from him, well played as it was. Every fan is going to be disappointed when a #8 makes a double hundred against his/her team.
 
zing said:
Calling 37 a very healthy average is the only abstract part of this post. We can slice this a 100 different ways and nitpick, but the reality is that he bats 8 for a middling WI side and there's nothing wrong in bemoaning a 200 from him, well played as it was. Every fan is going to be disappointed when a #8 makes a double hundred against his/her team.
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He's not a plodder though, Jennings is a plodder.
 
zing said:
Calling 37 a very healthy average is the only abstract part of this post. We can slice this a 100 different ways and nitpick, but the reality is that he bats 8 for a middling WI side and there's nothing wrong in bemoaning a 200 from him, well played as it was. Every fan is going to be disappointed when a #8 makes a double hundred against his/her team.
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An average of 37 puts him higher, or the same, as Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler and Ali. All four are players who are, clearly, talented batsmen to various degrees. It also puts him within touching distance of Shakib Al-Hasan (39) who has probably been the best all rounder in world cricket for several years.

No ones pretending that that is world beating, but it's abundantly obvious that it's far better than you're trying to intimate and why his batting was a contributing factor to the fact he was third on the allrounder rankings before this test even started.
 
NinjaFletch said:
An average of 37 puts him higher, or the same, as Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler and Ali. All four are players who are, clearly, talented batsmen to various degrees. It also puts him within touching distance of Shakib Al-Hasan (39) who has probably been the best all rounder in world cricket for several years.

No ones pretending that that is world beating, but it's abundantly obvious that it's far better than you're trying to intimate and why his batting was a contributing factor to the fact he was third on the allrounder rankings before this test even started.
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The average of 37 includes the 202 runs unbeaten he scored yesterday. If you discount what was clearly an outlier data point, he averages 32 in the same arbitrary filtered period that you have defined. From 2 years after his debut till the start of this match.

37 is not a very healthy average. Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali may or may not be talented batsmen but my point about it not being a very healthy average stands.

32 is an even poorer average. Point still stands that he is the WI's #8 at the end of the day and I'd be disappointed at him making a double hundred.
 
zing said:
The average of 37 includes the 202 runs unbeaten he scored yesterday. If you discount what was clearly an outlier data point, he averages 32 in the same arbitrary filtered period that you have defined. From 2 years after his debut till the start of this match.

37 is not a very healthy average. Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali may or may not be talented batsmen but my point about it not being a very healthy average stands.

32 is an even poorer average. Point still stands that he is the WI's #8 at the end of the day and I'd be disappointed at him making a double hundred.
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Ah, you're right. I got confused. He averaged 37 last calendar year, without the double century.

But whatever, I'm not getting into a discussion about whether 37 is a good average or not. If you don't think it is I suspect you must often get very angry about the players who often populate ATG all rounder lists.
 
Just keep dropping wickets before breaks. End is near now, I guess.

Pitch has been fairly benign.
 
Mooen is a fully fledged tail ender these days, discuss.

Averaged under 20 last calendar year, averages 0 this year so far.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Mooen is a fully fledged tail ender these days, discuss.

Averaged under 20 last calendar year, averages 0 this year so far.
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They've broken him. Shunting him all over the order plus his propensity to have brain explosions equals one seriously muddled mind. I still think he's England's best spinner but I think Leach suits Root's captaincy more (i.e. a spinner to hold an end).

For the next test I'd go Rashid, Ali, *Curran* and Jennings out. Broad, Leach, *Woakes* and Denly in.

Burns
Denly
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes
Woakes
Broad
Leach
Anderson
 
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ArmchairCritic said:
They've broken him. Shunting him all over the order plus his propensity to have brain explosions equals one seriously muddled mind. I still think he's England's best spinner but I think Leach suits Root's captaincy more (i.e. a spinner to hold an end).

For the next test I'd go Rashid, Ali and Jennings out. Broad, Leach and Denly in.

Burns
Denly
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes
Woakes
Broad
Leach
Anderson
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Agree with that lineup but can’t see them dropping Moeen.
 
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