Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

Shops and transport hubs are being allowed to open for the economic benefit, there just isn't the same reasoning for sport.

It might be possible at great effort to let 20% in but there doesn't seem to be much justification for it.
 
Sky1981 said:
It's always not safe until vaccine.
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It never has or never will be 100% safe like pretty much everything else in life.

You could break your leg horrifically like Eduardo or die while playing like Antonio Puerta, however it's extremely unlikely.
 
Smores said:
Shops and transport hubs are being allowed to open for the economic benefit, there just isn't the same reasoning for sport.

It might be possible at great effort to let 20% in but there doesn't seem to be much justification for it.
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There absolutely is the same reasoning for sport.

Not continuing the women's league was heavily criticised over the last few pages, albeit for the wrong reasons in my opinion. Restarting and therefore saving it (and all other lower leagues) is the biggest justification for letting fans back in I can think of. They absolutely need the gate money.
 
RobinLFC said:
First In First Out, e.g game at 2pm: Stand A has to get in between 12pm and 12:30pm but also gets to leave between 3:45pm and 4:15pm. Stand D has to get in between 1:30pm and 2pm but also leaves last, between 5:15pm and 5:45pm.

Of course everything stands or falls with people being able to follow the guidelines but that's not different than stores, supermarkets, and all other places which are slowly re-opening. If you can't follow the rules (simple-minded as some football fans are), you're out.

Again, this is not something I'm proposing myself or anything, but I think football clubs are already looking into these kind of scenarios to at least have some kind of attendance during home games. Makes for a better atmosphere (limited, albeit) and gives them some gate revenue as well.
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= riots. You don't get throngs of emotionally swayed/influenced people in stores and supermarkets, and even the few you do can cause a disproportionate amount of chaos by not following simple instructions or etiquette. There's a magnitude of order in terms of disposition when it comes to live sports with something like football being way up there in terms of potential discord and unpredictable scenarios.

Also, herding in football has a bad history (at least in England), really bad, and I can't see governing bodies welcoming it.

Lastly, people being told they can't go to games... particularly season ticker holders... congregations outside of stadia, assured and another headache for the correct and proper marshalling of the event as a whole. You might, if you're lucky, achieve compliance amongst the lucky few selected to go in, and also the set of fans who have just seen their team win the game, but outside of that the potential pitfalls are clear and apparent, I would say.
 
Fortitude said:
= riots. You don't get throngs of emotionally swayed/influenced people in stores and supermarkets, and even the few you do can cause a disproportionate amount of chaos by not following simple instructions or etiquette. There's a magnitude of order in terms of disposition when it comes to live sports with something like football being way up there in terms of potential discord and unpredictable scenarios.

Also, herding in football has a bad history (at least in England), really bad, and I can't see governing bodies welcoming it.

Lastly, people being told they can't go to games... particularly season ticker holders... congregations outside of stadia, assured and another headache for the correct and proper marshalling of the event as a whole. You might, if you're lucky, achieve compliance amongst the lucky few selected to go in, and also the set of fans who have just seen their team win the game, but outside of that the potential pitfalls are clear and apparent, I would say.
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I agree, and as a result I think a ban by the government is quite likely. If they don't though I think clubs will at least look at the possibility to bring in a limited amount of fans.
 
RobinLFC said:
I agree, and as a result I think a ban by the government is quite likely. If they don't though I think clubs will at least look at the possibility to bring in a limited amount of fans.
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It's a can of worms (in every sense of the word) I can't see clubs wanting to touch. Legally and PR-wise, it's a minefield of unnecessary headaches and botheration/

Think you're more likely to see the logistical nightmare of mandatory masks and gloves in near capacity stadia than any cultivation of reductive and exclusory measures that will have literally 10's of thousands of disgruntled supporters up in arms.
 
RobinLFC said:
You won't be allowed to leave at the same time. Last ones in before the game should be the last ones out, and first ones in the first ones out, also per stand and per section. Maybe they might contemplate keeping the drink&food stands closed, and that your'e also not allowed to leave your seat during HT. Take a piss at home before the game, and if you desperately need to go during the game, you need to exit the stadium and can't re-enter. Harsh, but the only workable solution - you simply can't have fans arbitrarily choosing when to go for a piss during the game because in that case you can't control or keep your social distancing rules.

I dunno, maybe it's just too complicated. But if there's even a slight chance that this would work, I'd imagine clubs are already looking into making it happen. Even at 1/3 stadium capacity, the gate revenue of Old Trafford amounts to a million or so, probably.
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you can’t close toilet facilities.

if the only way you can make it work is by saying you can’t use the toilet for 4 hours, unless you are Dominic Cummings, then it is unworkable.

at some point there will be a phased introduction, but it will be when social distancing is no longer implemented as it’s impossible to do.

My travel time to every London stadium is between 30-90 mins, and there is no way to get to any of them without using public transport - even with 20% of the capacity you create crowds outside the stadium and on transport.

so even if you could control what happens inside the stadium, which you reasonably can’t - then the issue is getting to and from the ground in any case.
 
RobinLFC said:
First In First Out, e.g game at 2pm: Stand A has to get in between 12pm and 12:30pm but also gets to leave between 3:45pm and 4:15pm. Stand D has to get in between 1:30pm and 2pm but also leaves last, between 5:15pm and 5:45pm.

Of course everything stands or falls with people being able to follow the guidelines but that's not different than stores, supermarkets, and all other places which are slowly re-opening. If you can't follow the rules (simple-minded as some football fans are), you're out.

Again, this is not something I'm proposing myself or anything, but I think football clubs are already looking into these kind of scenarios to at least have some kind of attendance during home games. Makes for a better atmosphere (limited, albeit) and gives them some gate revenue as well.
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One word for these FIFO - Ridiculous! :lol:
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
you can’t close toilet facilities.

if the only way you can make it work is by saying you can’t use the toilet for 4 hours, unless you are Dominic Cummings, then it is unworkable.

at some point there will be a phased introduction, but it will be when social distancing is no longer implemented as it’s impossible to do.

My travel time to every London stadium is between 30-90 mins, and there is no way to get to any of them without using public transport - even with 20% of the capacity you create crowds outside the stadium and on transport.

so even if you could control what happens inside the stadium, which you reasonably can’t - then the issue is getting to and from the ground in any case.
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Pubs won't be open so there won't be 40,000 dudes who just downed 4 pints in the previous hour. The toilets will be far less busy than normal!
 
Everyone knows this season has already finished. Whatever happens from now is meaningless and just ticks a box of having a season completed. The competition itself has no credibility left.

It's a complete joke really.
 
duffer said:
Pubs won't be open so there won't be 40,000 dudes who just downed 4 pints in the previous hour. The toilets will be far less busy than normal!
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Indeed - but you still need to have facilities, one poster suggested they would have to be closed which is ridiculous.

but still the point remains, you can’t do this and social distance. If you are in the middle of a stand, how do you go to the toilet without passing dozens/ hundreds of people on the way there and on the way back?

it can’t be done whilst there are still socially distancing regs of 2m.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Indeed - but you still need to have facilities, one poster suggested they would have to be closed which is ridiculous.

but still the point remains, you can’t do this and social distance. If you are in the middle of a stand, how do you go to the toilet without passing dozens/ hundreds of people on the way there and on the way back?

it can’t be done whilst there are still socially distancing regs of 2m.
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Also, it's a joke that Man United have lots of "out of town" fans but every club does. Am I allowed to travel to London (I live in Dorset currently) to watch Chelsea? Can I go to an away game in Newcastle?
 
duffer said:
Pubs won't be open so there won't be 40,000 dudes who just downed 4 pints in the previous hour. The toilets will be far less busy than normal!
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Pubs being unavailable is of minor inconvenience. If you want to get tanked up before the game, then just pay a visit to your local shop and pick up a six-pack.
 
duffer said:
Also, it's a joke that Man United have lots of "out of town" fans but every club does. Am I allowed to travel to London (I like in Dorset currently) to watch Chelsea? Can I go to an away game in Newcastle?
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Why wouldn't you? The concept of "essential travels only" is dead as soon as shops re-open.

Random Task said:
Pubs being unavailable is of minor inconvenience. If you want to get tanked up before the game, then just pay a visit to your local shop and pick up a six-pack.
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If you'd know that you can't go the toilet / can go but are not allowed back inside, you won't want to "get tanked up before the game".
 
RobinLFC said:
Why wouldn't you? The concept of "essential travels only" is dead as soon as shops re-open.


If you'd know that you can't go the toilet / can go but are not allowed back inside, you won't want to "get tanked up before the game".
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Its not just people who are “tanked up”. People of a certain age need to have a piss every two hours (forty and over!!), oh and children. If after 60 mins, your 8 year old child tells you they need to go to toilet, what are you going to do?

what about someone who has IBS - closing toilet facilities is not an option - if you do, then all that happens is half the crowd will be pissing in the concourse, which is just what used to happen at the Old Wembley asthey had one toilet per 20k people it seemed.
 
RobinLFC said:
Why wouldn't you? The concept of "essential travels only" is dead as soon as shops re-open.


If you'd know that you can't go the toilet / can go but are not allowed back inside, you won't want to "get tanked up before the game".
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Yeah because that's the first thing you think of when you're downing your first pint, isn't it?

"Stop, lads, before you knock that ice-cold beer back, have you considered where we're gonna go for a wee?"

Mate, you'd get beaten up.
 
duffer said:
Have they said that?, me driving 10 mins to buy some socks is not the same as a 200 mile trip to watch footy (in my opinion).
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In Belgium, they did. Once football with limited attendance will have returned, so will social contact. They simply can't control "essential trips" anymore. Who's to say you don't have family in Newcastle?

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Its not just people who are “tanked up”. People of a certain age need to have a piss every two hours (forty and over!!), oh and children. If after 60 mins, your 8 year old child tells you they need to go to toilet, what are you going to do?

what about someone who has IBS - closing toilet facilities is not an option - if you do, then all that happens is half the crowd will be pissing in the concourse, which is just what used to happen at the Old Wembley asthey had one toilet per 20k people it seemed.
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Not come to live games until the toilets re-open, I'd suggest. Same as for every sector re-opening with restrictions: if you don't wanna buy clothes when you can't try them on in the stores, I'd suggest you don't go shopping for new clothes until you can. All this whataboutism when thinking about solutions helps absolutely no one.
 
Reduced capacities, FIFO, clever one- way systems or whatever measures you can dream up there is no way the crowds will be allowed in under the current social distancing rules. There is no debate here.
I'm not saying crowds won't be allowed in until a vaccine is found but I suspect the number of deaths and new cases will have to have been in single figures for some time.

I think large sporting events will be the last part of the "old life" to return. Todays media reports of Cheltenham and the last CL match at Anfield are making this a very current and sensitive issue.

We have to look at what form the end of lockdown and social distancing might take. I suspect there won't be a readily available vaccine for the next year so what else do we have in the armoury that could help? I've heard the anti-body test referred to as a "game changer". If somebody has proof of a strong resilience to the virus then maybe they can buy a match ticket and enter the stadium. This might seem unfair to those of us that followed the rules and never caught the virus but if it helps crowds into the stadium then it can't be a bad thing. Get everybody to wear masks? Really? I can see that. Too many hoons will think its just a laugh and not take it seriously. There is potential for a mask solution but really the close contact with fellow fans is the real problem and it is going to need a change in mentality by the whole of society before we get crowds back in the stadiums.

At the moment we are far too concerned about social distancing and following the rules to even consider a return of crowds. As society we need to start accepting that the chances of getting the virus are very low indeed. There have been reports that the number of new cases in London in the last week range between zero and twenty each day. These are very low numbers but only reflect the number of tested cases. The reality could be that 5,000 people in London currently have Covid 19. With a population of 9 million that would mean you have a 0.0005% chance of meeting somebody with the virus. That's very low and if you consider that 50% of deaths are in people over 80 the chances of dying are even lower. This would also equate to there being a 1 in 4 chance of there being a carrier in a crowd of 50,000. At some point that risk might get lower but at what point do we say the risk is worth it?

A time will come when people will say " its safe now" but in the meantime we need to get the players to agree to play as the first stepping stone.
 
Sky1981 said:
First in first out?
No toilets?
20k fans told to behave?

What could possibly go wrong
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It's not what I'm suggesting myself, it's what I think clubs are looking into at the moment. A simple government ban (what I think will/should also happen) will put a stop to that.
 
Sky1981 said:
You're not suggesting, but you think clubs should look into?
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I don't think clubs should look into it, I think clubs are already looking into that. They're multi-million dollar businesses ffs. Every business however small or big has been thinking about how to adapt to the circumstances these last two months. If I (and others on this thread) think limited capacity in stadiums might be a possibility if not for a government ban, do you honestly think that the clubs themselves haven't ever thought about that or looked at how it will be possible? Come on now.

It's gonna be limited capacity either way; you can't go from "no fans" to "full stadium" without taking steps in between.
 
RobinLFC said:
In Belgium, they did. Once football with limited attendance will have returned, so will social contact. They simply can't control "essential trips" anymore. Who's to say you don't have family in Newcastle?


Not come to live games until the toilets re-open, I'd suggest. Same as for every sector re-opening with restrictions: if you don't wanna buy clothes when you can't try them on in the stores, I'd suggest you don't go shopping for new clothes until you can. All this whataboutism when thinking about solutions helps absolutely no one.
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what an idiotic reply.

do YOU honestly think you can have any sort of crowd at a football match and not have toilet facilities?

then also think about water and drinks - playing matches in July/August/September with no ability to provide drinking water.

no one with any intelligence (you see what I did here :D) would think this is a good idea. Indeed, there are health and safety regs that wouldn’t allow it to happen.

It helps no one when you are trying to get a solution without thinking about the absolute basics.
 
RobinLFC said:
I don't think clubs should look into it, I think clubs are already looking into that. They're multi-million dollar businesses ffs. Every business however small or big has been thinking about how to adapt to the circumstances these last two months. If I (and others on this thread) think limited capacity in stadiums might be a possibility if not for a government ban, do you honestly think that the clubs themselves haven't ever thought about that or looked at how it will be possible? Come on now.
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So we agree these ideas are stupid?
 
Sky1981 said:
So we agree these ideas are stupid?
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No. Limited capacity will happen because they won't go from "no fans" to "full stadiums". That's just a fact, like it or not.

People trying to come up with ideas are better than people like yourself who do nothing else than laugh at other people's ideas and trot out their usual reply "football cannot come back before a vaccine". You share ideas, people give feedback, and come up with solutions on the identified issues (such as the toilets issue). That's happening at clubs right now, I think. If you think it isn't and they are all just sat on their arse waiting for the vaccine to be developed, and watching the millions of income just go down the toilet, then fine.
 
RobinLFC said:
No. Limited capacity will happen because they won't go from "no fans" to "full stadiums". That's just a fact, like it or not.

People trying to come up with ideas are better than people like yourself who do nothing else than laugh at other people's ideas and trot out their usual reply "football cannot come back before a vaccine". You share ideas, people give feedback, and come up with solutions on the identified issues (such as the toilets issue). That's happening at clubs right now, I think. If you think it isn't and they are all just sat on their arse waiting for the vaccine to be developed, and watching the millions of income just go down the toilet, then fine.
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Here's my feedback : stupidest fecking idea that wont work.
 
RobinLFC said:
I don't think clubs should look into it, I think clubs are already looking into that. They're multi-million dollar businesses ffs. Every business however small or big has been thinking about how to adapt to the circumstances these last two months. If I (and others on this thread) think limited capacity in stadiums might be a possibility if not for a government ban, do you honestly think that the clubs themselves haven't ever thought about that or looked at how it will be possible? Come on now.

It's gonna be limited capacity either way; you can't go from "no fans" to "full stadium" without taking steps in between.
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What has led you to think that clubs are looking into opening without toilet access? Seems like an absurd idea
 
RobinLFC said:
Please quote a post of me where I say that this is a good idea.
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you keep posting about how it could work. If you think it’s a terrible idea (which it is), why don’t you just agree that it is - rather than telling me I can only go to a football match if I can go 4 hours without taking a piss! Which is ridiculous.
 
A Liverpool fan from *checks notes* Belgium telling people in the UK to travel up and down the country watching football during a pandemic. I’m not even surprised at this point.
 
Posh Red said:
What has led you to think that clubs are looking into opening without toilet access? Seems like an absurd idea
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I think they're looking into opening, not necessarily without toilet access. That part is troublesome, agreed. Can't see how else you'd adhere to social distancing, but no doubt they have brighter minds in those positions than me. If they don't find a workable solution, they'll have to concede not to host fans until social distancing isn't a requirement anymore. But I think they're definitely looking into it, which was my whole initial point.

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
you keep posting about how it could work. If you think it’s a terrible idea (which it is), why don’t you just agree that it is - rather than telling me I can only go to a football match if I can go 4 hours without taking a piss! Which is ridiculous.
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Sky1981 said:
Stop flip floping. You're the one who comes out with all these stupid suggestions.
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Sky1981 said:
Here's my feedback : stupidest fecking idea that wont work.
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Dec9003 said:
A Liverpool fan from *checks notes* Belgium telling people in the UK to travel up and down the country watching football during a pandemic. I’m not even surprised at this point.
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Okay, it's pointless to discuss with you guys because you take things out of context and are just here to shoot down anything I say at this point. Have fun.
 
RobinLFC said:
Okay, it's pointless to discuss with you guys because you take things out of context and are just here to shoot down anything I say at this point. Have fun.
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Am I allowed to travel to London (I like in Dorset currently) to watch Chelsea? Can I go to an away game in Newcastle?
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Why wouldn't you? The concept of "essential travels only" is dead as soon as shops re-open.
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Dec9003 said:
A Liverpool fan from *checks notes* Belgium telling people in the UK to travel up and down the country watching football during a pandemic. I’m not even surprised at this point.
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I told him travelling to Newcastle for a football game once football games allow fans again (so presumably after the pandemic and once it's safe enough to allow fans again, let alone AWAY fans), would not be problematic, which is what the poster asked. Because by then, it would indeed not be problematic anymore to travel from Dorset to Chelsea. You totally took it out of context and presented is as something I didn't say or told him at all.

Random Task said:
Why even bring these suggestions to our attention if you don't think them plausible yourself?

For what it's worth, they are terrible ideas.
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All the other stuff like sitting crosswise and letting different stands come in and go out at different timeslots is very realistic imo. Not having facilities is problematic, I've admitted to that.

No doubt they have also thought about that though, if that would be the only way an early re-opening of stadiums would be possible. All of these suggestions are with the caveat that they want fans in attendance again as soon as possible. They're not going to simply wait until it's deemed safe again to come in with a face mask and queue in the ten thousands at the same time. If that's what they're waiting for, they'll be the absolute last ones in line to re-open again.
 
RobinLFC said:
I think they're looking into opening, not necessarily without toilet access. That part is troublesome, agreed. Can't see how else you'd adhere to social distancing, but no doubt they have brighter minds in those positions than me. If they don't find a workable solution, they'll have to concede not to host fans until social distancing isn't a requirement anymore. But I think they're definitely looking into it, which was my whole initial point.





Okay, it's pointless to discuss with you guys because you take things out of context and are just here to shoot down anything I say at this point. Have fun.
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Bring a sensible solution to the table and people will consider it. Throwing around any old tripe that some RAWKite posted on his twitter account is pointless.

FIFO? Christ.
 
Random Task said:
Bring a sensible solution to the table and people will consider it. Throwing around any old tripe that some RAWKite posted on his twitter account is pointless.

FIFO? Christ.
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probably have to all have numbered tickets like you used to get at the cheese counter at Tesco.

I suppose it could work at spurs.
 
RobinLFC said:
I told him travelling to Newcastle for a football game once football games allow fans again (so presumably after the pandemic and once it's safe enough to allow fans again, let alone AWAY fans), would not be problematic, which is what the poster asked. Because by then, it would indeed not be problematic anymore to travel from Dorset to Chelsea. You totally took it out of context and presented is as something I didn't say or told him at all.


All the other stuff like sitting crosswise and letting different stands come in and go out at different timeslots is very realistic imo. Not having facilities is problematic, I've admitted to that.

No doubt they have also thought about that though, if that would be the only way an early re-opening of stadiums would be possible. All of these suggestions are with the caveat that they want fans in attendance again as soon as possible. They're not going to simply wait until it's deemed safe again to come in with a face mask and queue in the ten thousands at the same time. If that's what they're waiting for, they'll be the absolute last ones in line to re-open again.
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I want football back as much as the next guy or gal, but not at the expense of another barely-containable outbreak.
 
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