Cop in America doing a bad job, again

[bpet15]

Where is the racism here? I don't see it.

Yes, please read the thread where @Sigma says there is racism, yet won't say or point out the actual racism, but still insists the racism is there because the cop could possibly be racist and some stats show that racism is actually a real thing.

On the other hand, don't go back and read it - you will be smarter for it.

 

[JPRouve]

"Resisting arrest" is the catch-all term people use, but is not the actual name of the crime which is what causes confusion. Don't know what their Penal Codes are in Texas, but in CA, 148PC is "every person who willfully resists, delays, or obstructs any public officer, peace officer, or emergency medical technician in the discharge of his or her duties" is guilty of a misdemeanor. So yes, even though police can stop/detain a person for an infraction (speeding, jaywalking, broken tail-light), it can result in a misdemeanor "obstruction/delaying of justice" if the detained person refuses to ID themselves, give false names or DOB's, walk away etc. 69PC is the next level higher, when a person willfully or physically resists an officer, i.e. fighting, threatening an officer in the performance of duties, and is a Felony. The originating offense need not be an arrestable one

Thanks for that post. Is she allowed to not cooperate because she considers that she didn't crossed over the line?

 

[ivaldo]

@ivaldo

My wording was wrong there, but I strongly think its of a racist nature

But why? Other than having preconceptions about white police officers, what evidence is there that this is racially motivated?

 

[Sigma]

But why? Other than having preconceptions about white police officers, what evidence is there that this is racially motivated?

None (I haven't denied this). That's why I said I think, for the reasons you outlined in your post. Obvisouly, if I was part of the police I would have evidence at hand, but as I am not, I can only speculate

 

[ivaldo]

None (I haven't denied this). That's why I said I think, for the reasons you outlined in your post. Obvisouly, if I was part of the police I would have evidence at hand, but as I am not, I can only speculate

So you've come to a conclusion based solely on the colour of the police officers skin. Do you see the irony in this?

 

[Bamboozler]

lol at the back tracking.......

It's a racist video because its racist..... even though the video is not racist, but because racism exists in the world and the people involved are different races it has to be racist lol........

As has been implied previously, creating an assumption of an event solely based upon the race of those involved is the sheer definition of racism and racial profiling lol..... Oh the cruel hand of irony

 

[Organic Potatoes]

But you have to understand, this type of policing has been historically predatory in the black community. Blacks are targeted, profiled, and they are a major source of income for police departments. The drug war functions in a similar way, but on a much more serious scale. In fact, it´s sort of become an industry.

The war on drugs and the prison complex supporting it isn't sort of an industry, it's a massive one. But that's for another day...

As for this, it sounds like she felt too entitled to be pulled over, didn't want to cooperate, and he raised his voice leading to her geting scared. Both probably should've handled it better.

But if you've driven in Houston much, you'd wish people got pulled over for traffic violations much more often...

 

[Sigma]

So you've come to a conclusion based solely on the colour of the police officers skin. Do you see the irony in this?

You are right. I should wait until there is more evidence.

lol at the back tracking.......

It's a racist video because its racist..... even though the video is not racist, but because racism exists in the world and the people involved are different races it has to be racist lol........

As has been implied previously, creating an assumption of an event solely based upon the race of those involved is the sheer definition of racism and racial profiling lol..... Oh the cruel hand of irony

I don't need 5 people telling me the same stuff.

 

[Bamboozler]

Perhaps the cacophony of similar responses will eventually sink in lol....

 

[Carolina Red]

@mu77 What is a congress tart?

(aside from an almond topped pastry)

 

[Mrs Smoker]

He's been kidnapped!

 

[Organic Potatoes]

@mu77 if you don't explain that Congress Tart nonsense I'm going to assume it's an insult and issue an infraction.

@mu77 What is a congress tart?

(aside from an almond topped pastry)

It's Karl Pilkington's code word that he's in trouble if he got kidnapped in 'An Idiot Abroad.' So I'm guessing he's asking for help in this thread...?

 

[bpet15]

He's been kidnapped!

Good Lord - that was funny.

 

[Carolina Red]

He's been kidnapped!

It's Karl Pilkington's code word that he's in trouble if he got kidnapped in 'An Idiot Abroad.' So I'm guessing he's asking for help in this thread...?

gotcha!

I think that's the Damascus Gate at the beginning. Funny thing... when I went there in college, I had to sign a waiver about getting killed or kidnapped while there.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

....

Also, this wasn't racist and I don't see how anyone could think it is. He pulled her over because she broke the law, not because the color of her skin.

The real question is, would a white person have been pulled over for a similar bylaw infraction? If the answer is no, because it's less likely that the white person would be driving a stolen car, under the influence or in possession of drugs, then yes, it's racism.

In Toronto, it was well documented that police were more likely to pull over black drivers for minor infractions in the hopes of landing a big fish...and also to 'card' them.

 

[Bamboozler]

The real question is, would a white person have been pulled over for a similar bylaw infraction? If the answer is no, because it's less likely that the white person would be driving a stolen car, under the influence or in possession of drugs, then yes, it's racism.

In Toronto, it was well documented that police were more likely to pull over black drivers for minor infractions in the hopes of landing a big fish...and also to 'card' them.

There is a subtle difference between being 'racist' and 'racially profiling' someone as part of your profession. To 'racially profile' someone you don't necessarily have to act nor harbor any racist beliefs, it is a product of the system. The 'system' itself creates an inherent link between minorities and crime, the link is actually more proportional to economics rather than simply race alone, however, as the vast majority of low income impoverished families within major US cities are people of minorities, it is often seen as a singular problem.

But again, while this perspective has merit, the answer to the question simply cannot be ascertained from the video alone.

 

[choiboyx012]

Thanks for that post. Is she allowed to not cooperate because she considers that she didn't crossed over the line?

No, not at that moment. That's what a citation is for. It's a "promise to appear" to traffic court and plead your case if you feel you did not commit the violation or the cop was in the wrong.

Now if she was in fear of her safety, there's nothing wrong with requesting that another officer respond to the location. Better yet, request a supervisor (sergeant, lieutenant) to respond to the scene. The officer should have had the lady stay in the car and let her know that a supervisor was en route. Upon arrival, the officer should explain to the Sgt what's going on. The sup should advise her that she needed to cooperate, present ID, etc., and she can be on her way with a court date. If she still refused to comply or sign the ticket, then she would be arrested.

 

[JPRouve]

No, not at that moment. That's what a citation is for. It's a "promise to appear" to traffic court and plead your case if you feel you did not commit the violation or the cop was in the wrong.

Now if she was in fear of her safety, there's nothing wrong with requesting that another officer respond to the location. Better yet, request a supervisor (sergeant, lieutenant) to respond to the scene. The officer should have had the lady stay in the car and let her know that a supervisor was en route. Upon arrival, the officer should explain to the Sgt what's going on. The sup should advise her that she needed to cooperate, present ID, etc., and she can be on her way with a court date. If she still refused to comply or sign the ticket, then she would be arrested.

Thanks again, that's what I had in mind.


Edit: The same thing happened just in front of my house two months ago and they did what you described, after 10 minutes three police cars arrived and they convinced the man to comply.

 

[Winrar]

When you look at the stats, race is certainly a big factor in them. The title is probably a little click-bait and you are right, we don't have all the necessary information, but when you look at the stats, you can hazard a guess - rightly or wrongly - that this was related to race

guessing based on the trend is fine, but don't treat it as a fact unless there's evidence for it in this case.

 

[Grinner]

No, not at that moment. That's what a citation is for. It's a "promise to appear" to traffic court and plead your case if you feel you did not commit the violation or the cop was in the wrong.

Now if she was in fear of her safety, there's nothing wrong with requesting that another officer respond to the location. Better yet, request a supervisor (sergeant, lieutenant) to respond to the scene. The officer should have had the lady stay in the car and let her know that a supervisor was en route. Upon arrival, the officer should explain to the Sgt what's going on. The sup should advise her that she needed to cooperate, present ID, etc., and she can be on her way with a court date. If she still refused to comply or sign the ticket, then she would be arrested.

How likely is it that a supervisor will do that though? How likely is it that the cop will just wait around?

As for the court summons, I found out the hard way that even if you weren't in the wrong you still have to pay a court fee when the case is dismissed. It's a racket alright.

 

[129104946]

The real question is, would a white person have been pulled over for a similar bylaw infraction? If the answer is no, because it's less likely that the white person would be driving a stolen car, under the influence or in possession of drugs, then yes, it's racism.

In Toronto, it was well documented that police were more likely to pull over black drivers for minor infractions in the hopes of landing a big fish...and also to 'card' them.

That isn't the real question because thats irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion isn't about if cops pull black people over more than whites (they do, but it isn't racist). This is about the police officer's conduct once the stop had already happened. Her race has nothing to do with how the cop acted after she was pulled over, which is what the entire video was about. She was pulled over for breaking the law and the cop acted how he did because of how she acted, not because the color of her skin.

 

[mu77]

congr-never mind

 

[choiboyx012]

How likely is it that a supervisor will do that though? How likely is it that the cop will just wait around?

As for the court summons, I found out the hard way that even if you weren't in the wrong you still have to pay a court fee when the case is dismissed. It's a racket alright.

Very likely. It's in the best interest of all parties, including the dept to have a supervisor respond to a scene if there's potential misconduct or a complaint, or if the situation is escalating to something bigger than a simple infraction. Of course this depends on the area where one works, geography size, and manpower,etc.
They may do things different there, but in liberal CA where ppl love to sue sue sue, it's better to CYA (cover your ass). In the past year or so I've seen more people pull the race card. Once someone starts with that I always tell the person how offended I am, and that I can call my supervisor over if he/she wishes. If not able to come, then I make it a point to call my sergeant after the fact and let them know what happened and a heads up in case they get a phone call for a complaint.

As far as the wait time, it's usually the person being detained that has somewhere to go and is being inconvenienced. I usually tell uncooperative people on traffic stops that I'll have to call a supervisor over and it may take X amount of time.and if they still refuse to ID themselves or sign the citation, then it'll be jail and their car being impounded. Most sensible people don't want that and do comply.

 

[choiboyx012]

How likely is it that a supervisor will do that though? How likely is it that the cop will just wait around?

As for the court summons, I found out the hard way that even if you weren't in the wrong you still have to pay a court fee when the case is dismissed. It's a racket alright.

What state do you live in? Yeah, you're right, it's a straight up robbery IMO. I wrote a lot of tickets when I was in training, and went to court for some of them. The fines I heard being thrown around were just extortionate. I've gotten tickets before I became a cop and yeah it sucks. I don't write cites anymore unless they were doing something very dangerous/reckless or they were being absolute assholes.

 

[mu77]

these cops are as bad as the mods

 

[baanke laal]

Was not aware of Sandra Bland case. Disgusting!

 

[Sky1981]

How is the officer racist? If any shouldn't the woman be the racist one for being prejudice that the cop who hasn't even spoken anything other than standard police lines.

I got stopped by Australian cops, Singaporean cops, Indonesian cops, UK cops, and most of the time I just adhere to the usual standard of being polite and cooperate, and there's never be any problem. That's the one principle that I believe that if you behave there will be less trouble that might comes your way.

If you run away from cops without a good reason and resisting to cooperate, then you're probably asking for it. It's time that the black parents and society (as well as the whites) teaches everyone to respect the law and innocent until proven, instead of respecting it only if the officer is (insert skin color here).

Not every white cop that stops you wants you dead
Not every black individual you stop is a criminal

Failing to understand the two points above will increase the likelihood of things going FUBAR.

 

[Stack]

How is the officer racist? If any shouldn't the woman be the racist one for being prejudice that the cop who hasn't even spoken anything other than standard police lines.

I got stopped by Australian cops, Singaporean cops, Indonesian cops, UK cops, and most of the time I just adhere to the usual standard of being polite and cooperate, and there's never be any problem. That's the one principle that I believe that if you behave there will be less trouble that might comes your way.

If you run away from cops without a good reason and resisting to cooperate, then you're probably asking for it. It's time that the black parents and society (as well as the whites) teaches everyone to respect the law and guilty until proven, instead of respecting it only if the officer is (insert skin color here).

Not every white cop that stops you wants you dead
Not every black individual you stop is a criminal

Failing to understand the two points above will increase the likelihood of things going FUBAR.

WTF???

 

[Sky1981]

WTF???

ops. i mean innocent

 

[LuisNaniencia]

That isn't the real question because thats irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion isn't about if cops pull black people over more than whites (they do, but it isn't racist). This is about the police officer's conduct once the stop had already happened. Her race has nothing to do with how the cop acted after she was pulled over, which is what the entire video was about. She was pulled over for breaking the law and the cop acted how he did because of how she acted, not because the color of her skin.

If you behave differently towards people based only on the colour of their skin yes it's racist. The black person who drives perfectly, behaves impeccably, etc should have a higher chance of being pulled over than other people? No way.

In this particular incident there's nothing to suggest racism however. If I got pulled over as a white man in England and got my phone out instead of handing over my license, I'd expect to have my phone taken away. It does appear the officer over reacted but aren't they trained like this? Maybe if he approached it differently (talking rather than shouting) it could have worked out better but it's all assumption.

 

[129104946]

If you behave differently towards people based only on the colour of their skin yes it's racist.

By that definition of racism affirmative action is racist.

 

[Zarlak]

If you behave differently towards people based only on the colour of their skin yes it's racist.

By that definition of racism affirmative action is racist.

There is a difference, it might seem like semantics but racism is a belief that one race is superior to another and the carrying out of actions based on that belief. It's an ideology and not an action. The example that LuisNaniencia provided is racial discrimination, an action. They are not interchangeable terms. That doesn't take away from how wrong what happened was, and it's still fecked up but behaving different towards people based only on the colour of their skin is not racist by default, it's racial discrimination which may or may not have stemmed from racism and most of the time does. Take for example somebody who stops a black person because he doesn't trust black people. The act of stopping him is not racist, it's racial discrimination. His distrust of black people as a race is what is racist. People have started to use the words racist and racism more broadly to encompass anything that involves somebody of a different skin colour, though that's not really the meaning of the word. It doesn't really matter, because either way it still needs to be sorted out but that's why the word doesn't cover all examples and scenarios.

 

[choiboyx012]

There is a difference, it might seem like semantics but racism is a belief that one race is superior to another and the carrying out of actions based on that belief. It's an ideology and not an action. The example that LuisNaniencia provided is racial discrimination, an action. They are not interchangeable terms. That doesn't take away from how wrong what happened was, and it's still fecked up but behaving different towards people based only on the colour of their skin is not racist by default, it's racial discrimination which may or may not have stemmed from racism and most of the time does. Take for example somebody who stops a black person because he doesn't trust black people. The act of stopping him is not racist, it's racial discrimination. His distrust of black people as a race is what is racist. People have started to use the words racist and racism more broadly to encompass anything that involves somebody of a different skin colour, though that's not really the meaning of the word. It doesn't really matter, because either way it still needs to be sorted out but that's why the word doesn't cover all examples and scenarios.

So black people, and other minorities can be racist too though right? They can discriminate against other racial groups even if they don't "have power" institutionally?

 

[Zarlak]

So black people, and other minorities can be racist too though right? They can discriminate against other racial groups even if they don't "have power" institutionally?

This seems like a really silly question, of course they can. If a black person says 'I believe that the white race is inferior to the black race' then they are being racist. That's the definition. There are many forms of racism and many different forms of racial action that are not by definition racist. People often just use the one word to encompass all of them. It doesn't really matter, but when trying to tackle one form over the other I guess it might if people aren't being specific but on the whole it's not really something to lose sleep over the semantics.

 

[129104946]

There is a difference, it might seem like semantics but racism is a belief that one race is superior to another and the carrying out of actions based on that belief. It's an ideology and not an action. The example that LuisNaniencia provided is racial discrimination, an action. They are not interchangeable terms. That doesn't take away from how wrong what happened was, and it's still fecked up but behaving different towards people based only on the colour of their skin is not racist by default, it's racial discrimination which may or may not have stemmed from racism and most of the time does. Take for example somebody who stops a black person because he doesn't trust black people. The act of stopping him is not racist, it's racial discrimination. His distrust of black people as a race is what is racist. People have started to use the words racist and racism more broadly to encompass anything that involves somebody of a different skin colour, though that's not really the meaning of the word. It doesn't really matter, because either way it still needs to be sorted out but that's why the word doesn't cover all examples and scenarios.

Which is what I was getting at. Yelling "racism" every single time a black person is pulled over doesn't fix things for anybody.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

There is a subtle difference between being 'racist' and 'racially profiling' someone as part of your profession. To 'racially profile' someone you don't necessarily have to act nor harbor any racist beliefs, it is a product of the system. The 'system' itself creates an inherent link between minorities and crime, the link is actually more proportional to economics rather than simply race alone, however, as the vast majority of low income impoverished families within major US cities are people of minorities, it is often seen as a singular problem.

But again, while this perspective has merit, the answer to the question simply cannot be ascertained from the video alone.

Based on this response I would argue that the system is racist.

True that the video, any video, really, doesn't give us enough nuance to truly judge the situation.

 

[Zarlak]

Which is what I was getting at. Yelling "racism" every single time a black person is pulled over doesn't fix things for anybody.

It doesn't, but using the data that black people are pulled over disproportionally does. The fact that people yell racism every time a black person is pulled over does not detract from the fact that it is happening and needs to be addressed. It's semantics, whether it's racism or racial discrimination it still needs to be addressed.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

That isn't the real question because thats irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion isn't about if cops pull black people over more than whites (they do, but it isn't racist). This is about the police officer's conduct once the stop had already happened. Her race has nothing to do with how the cop acted after she was pulled over, which is what the entire video was about. She was pulled over for breaking the law and the cop acted how he did because of how she acted, not because the color of her skin.

A shitty little bylaw that hundreds of people violate every day in the US. Sounds so much more valid when you characterize it as "the law", though. It's not a felony, not even a misdemeanor. Frankly, the woman is within her rights to request another officer, considering the current climate, and the subsequent charges seem like a waste of everyone's time and money and all because she made a cop look like a dick.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

By that definition of racism affirmative action is racist.

It is, but because it has a net benefit to society and does not make negative decisions based on race, people tend to look the other way.

Let me guess, some of your best friends are black, right?

 

[129104946]

A shitty little bylaw that hundreds of people violate every day in the US. Sounds so much more valid when you characterize it as "the law", though. It's not a felony, not even a misdemeanor. Frankly, the woman is within her rights to request another officer, considering the current climate, and the subsequent charges seem like a waste of everyone's time and money and all because she made a cop look like a dick.

The woman is not within her rights to get out of the car and refuse to show her identification, which all happened before she requested another officer.