Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Bamboozler said:
Well you see therein lies the problem...... the common denominator for a particular situation to be 'racist' or not in the current climate is the differentiation between the officers skin tone and that of the perp. There is no way to ascertain if this was 'racist' intent, however, given today's outlook on such things it is automatically 'racist' as the officer is of a different race........ We all know that this is 100% subjective on the viewers part and thus has no bearing on the situation. This is bad policing... end of, anything 'racial' is pure conjecture.
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that's the problem I have with the OP - clickbait-y title with little to no connection to what the actual story is.

might as well as change the title to this: You Won't Believe How a Racist White Police Officer Brutally Assaulted an Innocent Black Woman
 
This is hardly thread worthy and the title is pure click bait.

However, the thread has made me curious on two fronts.

What the hell is "congress tart"?

And who the hell would name their kid Earledreka?
 
Winrar said:
that's the problem I have with the OP - clickbait-y title with little to no connection to what the actual story is.

might as well as change the title to this: You Won't Believe How a Racist White Police Officer Brutally Assaulted an Innocent Black Woman
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I don't really see how this is not racism. And even if you think its not, a discussion over police standards in America can be had
 
Sigma said:
I don't really see how this is not racism. And even if you think its not, a discussion over police standards in America can be had
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I don't see how it is. unless you're saying it is just because the police officer was white and the woman was black - which is a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of what actually happened based on the information we have so far.

racism and policing standards aren't always related issues.
 
Winrar said:
I don't see how it is. unless you're saying it is just because the police officer was white and the woman was black - which is a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of what actually happened based on the information we have so far.

racism and policing standards aren't always related issues.
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When you look at the stats, race is certainly a big factor in them. The title is probably a little click-bait and you are right, we don't have all the necessary information, but when you look at the stats, you can hazard a guess - rightly or wrongly - that this was related to race
 
Bamboozler said:
There are bad workers in every single profession in the world, however, for some in here it would behoove you to keep up with the latest analytics as opposed to what is simply published in the local rag as being the gospel:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/u...e-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0

full paper is here:

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/main-july_2016.pdf

Interesting look at the various permutations that 'we' face on a daily basis... while there is definitely some work to be done, simply crying foul at every single incidence and then extrapolating that to be the 'standard' of actions and behavior for an entire workforce / profession is simply naive and only serves to validate intrinsic values and personal agenda's.
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That study is accurate, however the evidence showing that there is no racial bias in police shootings is applicable only to Houston (that is where the data was sourced from). Anyone trying to extrapolate that to the entire country is being intellectually dishonest, and that's me being kind there.
 
Sigma said:
I don't really see how this is not racism. And even if you think its not, a discussion over police standards in America can be had
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And this is a perfect example of how 'psychological priming' is used to manipulate opinion....

There is nothing 'racist' in the video at all, I do not hear anything regarding a racial slur or derogatory comment pertaining to her race. I have not seen anything nor read anything about the officer at this point that suggests he holds 'racist' beliefs, therefore, the video is of a police officer who may be engaging in poor practice... not necessarily wrong or illegal, those are determinations left to the individual. To 'assume' this is racist simply based upon the color of the skin of those involved is inherently racists in itself.... and this is the battle that the world faces.

Would this be racist if the police officer was also black? Or would that negate any reference to skin tone prejudice? Once again, the only variable you are using to determine whether something is 'racist' is the differentiation of the people involved skin color.

Second time you have referenced 'statistics'......... please substantiate.
 
Sigma said:
I don't really see how this is not racism. And even if you think its not, a discussion over police standards in America can be had
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Please help me understand. Instead of saying you can't understand how this is not racism, could you please articulate the reasons why you believe it is racism.

I am not trying to initiate a debate, I genuinely want to understand the other perspective. Assuming you watched the video, there must be specific things that happened to lead you to racism. What are they?
 
Bamboozler said:
And this is a perfect example of how 'psychological priming' is used to manipulate opinion....

There is nothing 'racist' in the video at all, I do not hear anything regarding a racial slur or derogatory comment pertaining to her race. I have not seen anything nor read anything about the officer at this point that suggests he holds 'racist' beliefs, therefore, the video is of a police officer who may be engaging in poor practice... not necessarily wrong or illegal, those are determinations left to the individual. To 'assume' this is racist simply based upon the color of the skin of those involved is inherently racists in itself.... and this is the battle that the world faces.

Would this be racist if the police officer was also black? Or would that negate any reference to skin tone prejudice? Once again, the only variable you are using to determine whether something is 'racist' is the differentiation of the people involved skin color.

Second time you have referenced 'statistics'......... please substantiate.
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bpet15 said:
Please help me understand. Instead of saying you can't understand how this is not racism, could you please articulate the reasons why you believe it is racism.

I am not trying to initiate a debate, I genuinely want to understand the other perspective. Assuming you watched the video, there must be specific things that happened to lead you to racism. What are they?
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I'll refer you to this comment.

Sigma said:
When you look at the stats, race is certainly a big factor in them. The title is probably a little click-bait and you are right, we don't have all the necessary information, but when you look at the stats, you can hazard a guess - rightly or wrongly - that this was related to race
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adexkola said:
That study is accurate, however the evidence showing that there is no racial bias in police shootings is applicable only to Houston (that is where the data was sourced from). Anyone trying to extrapolate that to the entire country is being intellectually dishonest, and that's me being kind there.
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Of course, that is the point.... using an isolated incident / study in order to create a broad reaching (and accurate) conclusion across the board is inherently flawed. Despite this being a known fact, it is the yard stick by which the media and political protagonists are beating the proverbial 'public' with.
 
Winrar said:
I don't see how it is. unless you're saying it is just because the police officer was white and the woman was black - which is a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of what actually happened based on the information we have so far.

racism and policing standards aren't always related issues.
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Why are you and others so quick to jump at accusations of racism? "Oh, we don't know he was a racist." Yeah there's no proof that he has a KKK hood in his closet, and it's very likely that he has no animosity towards black people. But that isn't the fecking point, and that's not why incidents like this garner so much attention. It's because for some weird reason, black people are disproportionate recipients of violence and death at the hand of authorities, even after accounting for income, crime, bla bla bla... That is exactly a definition of racism, not only "damn what n-word am I going to kill today?".

In incidents like this it is nearly impossible to separate racism as defined above, from policing standards. Policing standards as currently established today are such that black people get treated differently from others. Yes, normalizing for education, income, bla bla bla...
 
There is a big difference between the two approaches. 1 is actually 'neutral' in the sense that it does not attempt to extrapolate a reasoning / motivation behind the actions.. i.e not assuming it is racist, And the other is actually proactively assuming that the entire ordeal was racially motivated, ergo positively projecting their own personal opinion onto the situation and inherently changing its entire context from the outset.

While one serves to wait to see what information can be garnered to create a logical conclusion (however painful it may be), the other simply forces the conclusion to represent an agenda that is personally motivated.
 
How can you read the title and first post and deduce that is not the point?

If anything the bare assumption that race is the factor x in every human interaction, is racist.
 
A bit much with the caps lock in the title you'd think.
 
Sigma said:
I'll refer you to this comment.
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Just so I understand correctly. Your stance is that it is now acceptable to scream "racism" by rightly or wrongly hazarding a guess? Again, please point me to anything that was said or any act in this video that you feel is racist.
 
As a mixed race American I find this entire debate hilarious every time it happens. There are bad cops, just like there bad people in every other profession. But in America, if you respect the police 99.99% of the time nothing bad will happen to you.
I think there is an issue with police brutality, but the message is going to get lost if we keep lumping it in with racism.
This is a perfect example of exactly that happening. The cop should have handled himself better, as should have the woman. But it has nothing to do with her skin color.

And by saying "RACISM" at every single negative thing that happens with police, or with the black community in general, it becomes impossible to fix and we can't solve the real issues.
 
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what if the police officer is latino - thread starters worst nightmare.
 
Sigma said:
When you look at the stats, race is certainly a big factor in them. The title is probably a little click-bait and you are right, we don't have all the necessary information, but when you look at the stats, you can hazard a guess - rightly or wrongly - that this was related to race
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Can we not talk about stats for a minute.

Instead can we go back to the incident itself and can you please point out what was racist about it. You did say that it was a racist incident didn't you?
 
bpet15 said:
Just so I understand correctly. Your stance is that it is now acceptable to scream "racism" by rightly or wrongly hazarding a guess? Again, please point me to anything that was said or any act in this video that you feel is racist.
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I'm not screaming anything.
Red Defence said:
Can we not talk about stats for a minute.

Instead can we go back to the incident itself and can you please point out what was racist about it. You did say that it was a racist incident didn't you?
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There is nothing racist in the video itself. The policeman is still completely wrong though. All I'm saying is these incidents have attracted a reputation for being race related and thats why many people believe that the majority of these incidents are racist, because the stats back that up.
 
After watching this video again, I blame her more than anything.

That is text book resisting arrest, and it wasn't even that violent on the cop's part.

Anybody that has any common sense knows that during a traffic stop you do not exit your car under any circumstances, unless instructed to. Then, he told her to get back into her car and she didn't listen to him. He told her to display her license and her insurance and she refused.

Then she said she was calling for a second officer but once she got connected she said she was going to "report an officer for harassment."

All of this after the cop had a good reason to actually pull her over. I know there are bad cops, but a big problem is the people like this that make their job so hard.

Also, this wasn't racist and I don't see how anyone could think it is. He pulled her over because she broke the law, not because the color of her skin.
 
Sigma said:
There is nothing racist in the video itself. The policeman is still completely wrong though. All I'm saying is these incidents have attracted a reputation for being race related and thats why many people believe that the majority of these incidents are racist, because the stats back that up.
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In other words the incident is not racist and the thread title is incorrect?
 
I don't see how you can determine whether there is or is not racism at play here. We don't see if the original offence was in fact genuine.
 
Sigma said:
I don't see how you can rule racism out
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Pretty easily actually. You see, you rule it out when it doesn't occur. By your thought process, how does the officer rule out the driver didn't have drugs in the car? How does the officer rule out that the driver wasn't drunk? How does the officer rule out the car wasn't stolen when she wouldn't provide any papers?

Most people that live in reality, observe something and then make rational assumptions based on that observance.

This argument...:wenger:
 
Red Defence said:
In other words the incident is not racist and the thread title is incorrect?
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Not necessarily. It seems very suspicious that when this happened a few month ago the police dismissed it but when the video leaked online, now they are looking into it more closely
 
bpet15 said:
Pretty easily actually. You see, you rule it out when it doesn't occur. By your thought process, how does the officer rule out the driver didn't have drugs in the car? How does the officer rule out that the driver wasn't drunk? How does the officer rule out the car wasn't stolen when she wouldn't provide any papers?

Most people that live in reality, observe something and then make rational assumptions based on that observance.

This argument...:wenger:
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She was stopped because she crossed a double line. Not because she could have had drugs, not because she could have been drunk.

In the days we live in, a white cop and a black victim, usually attract the talk of racism being involved, because it happens so frequently. This is why you can't rule it out, and why, its likely to be race related.
 
Sigma said:
Not necessarily. It seems very suspicious that when this happened a few month ago the police dismissed it but when the video leaked online, now they are looking into it more closely
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This simply further reinforces the 'self fulfilling' notion of the events based within the context of the current climate. The only reason it is garnering additional attention is due to the political climate whereby any infraction is determined to be detrimental when involving cross races........ So the very fact it is being 'looked at more closely' is a direct consequence of people looking at it with 'it must be racist' viewpoint. Any 'normal' person without prejudicial intent will view it as it is and nothing more......

No one is 'ruling it out', once again this is a proactive response to the incident, the projection of your own personal bias, people are simply stating that there is no evidence of racist intent. That isn't a positive projection of 'no intent', it is simply no projection of intent at all, ergo judging the incident on its own specific merits.
 
Sigma said:
She was stopped because she crossed a double line. Not because she could have had drugs, not because she could have been drunk.

In the days we live in, a white cop and a black victim, usually attract the talk of racism being involved, because it happens so frequently. This is why you can't rule it out, and why, its likely to be race related.
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Get ahold of yourself. I'll think we should give you some more rope because you will eventually end up at "no white officers should ever pull over black people" because they only do it because they are racist.

There was no victim in this scenario. There was only a woman that wanted to act like an idiot. Imagine if every black driver did what she did...on the other hand, maybe that is what you want - no white officer is allowed to pull over a black driver. You know, because they are racist.
 
Bamboozler said:
This simply further reinforces the 'self fulfilling' notion of the events based within the context of the current climate. The only reason it is garnering additional attention is due to the political climate whereby any infraction is determined to be detrimental when involving cross races........ So the very fact it is being 'looked at more closely' is a direct consequence of people looking at it with 'it must be racist' viewpoint. Any 'normal' person without prejudicial intent will view it as it is and nothing more......

No one is 'ruling it out', once again this is a proactive response to the incident, the projection of your own personal bias, people are simply stating that there is no evidence of racist intent. That isn't a positive projection of 'no intent', it is simply no projection of intent at all, ergo judging the incident on its own specific merits.
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I have said there is no evidence. I have also said that the title is probably a bit OTT. But I have also said, in the world we live in, this topic is going to come up every time an incident like this happens.
bpet15 said:
Get ahold of yourself. I'll think we should give you some more rope because you will eventually end up at "no white officers should ever pull over black people" because they only do it because they are racist.

There was no victim in this scenario. There was only a woman that wanted to act like an idiot. Imagine if every black driver did what she did...on the other hand, maybe that is what you want - no white officer is allowed to pull over a black driver. You know, because they are racist.
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:lol:
So what you are basically saying is if you are assaulted you are not a victim
 
In France she ends up in custody.
 
Sigma said:
I have said there is no evidence. I have also said that the title is probably a bit OTT. But I have also said, in the world we live in, this topic is going to come up every time an incident like this happens.



:lol:
So what you are basically saying is if you are assaulted you are not a victim
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Not at all, but you realize that you are saying that if you are arrested or even attempted to be arrested you are also being assaulted. Does arrest or attempted arrest = assault to you?
 
Sigma said:
I don't really see how this is not racism.
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Sigma said:
There is nothing racist in the video itself. The policeman is still completely wrong though. All I'm saying is these incidents have attracted a reputation for being race related and thats why many people believe that the majority of these incidents are racist, because the stats back that up.
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bpet15 said:
Not at all, but you realize that you are saying that if you are arrested or even attempted to be arrested you are also being assaulted. Does arrest or attempted arrest = assault to you?
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I don't see how you think she's not being assaulted based on the video.
Bamboozler said:
@Sigma - Are you a WUM?
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yes

@ivaldo

My wording was wrong there, but I strongly think its of a racist nature
 
JustAFan said:
Which part? Where you said it was racism or where you said the video does not show any racism?
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Why are you purposely simplifying this? I said, there was no evidence in the video, but what has gone on in the past, has lead to me believe, that this is quite possibly of a racist nature. What's so hard to understand about that?

'Too look into the future[/now] you must look into the past'

I've changed the thread title. Feck my life. You guys are just being tricky here with a technicality.
 
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