Cop in America doing a bad job, again

choiboyx012 said:
Very good point. Clearing the car first was definitely an option, as a lot of departments do. It’s a little different when they know he had a gun and already fired it. If he runs away with the gun into a building or home, do you still want to clear the car first, or run after him and stop him first?
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To me that depends on the situation. If he had been shooting at random people and was likely to keep doing that if he gets away then yes, pursue immediately.

If he was only shooting at the police then perhaps the urgency of pursuit is lessened. In this particular instance I think there were enough officers on scene that one or two could have stayed back and cleared the vehicle (I realize the officers involved may feel differently) This might have provided a slight chance of a better outcome.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
To me that depends on the situation. If he had been shooting at random people and was likely to keep doing that if he gets away then yes, pursue immediately.

If he was only shooting at the police then perhaps the urgency of pursuit is lessened. In this particular instance I think there were enough officers on scene that one or two could have stayed back and cleared the vehicle (I realize the officers involved may feel differently) This might have provided a slight chance of a better outcome.
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Very true, a couple officers could have stayed back to clear the vehicle. But in the chaos of it all I don’t think they’re wrong for pursuing him either.
 
choiboyx012 said:
Consider it all we want. I’m pretty certain he did. Doesn’t matter though does it. He caused his own death through his continued actions. The cops are only reacting to what he does.
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Seriously, piss off. My point remains that US cops are fecking shit at trigger discipline first and foremost. They do NOT deserve the right to even carry a gun on the job.
 
Totally justified, he could have had a gun and he could have tried to use it and he could have hit one of the cops. The only way to stop a maybe bad guy who maybe has a gun is to shoot them 20 times.
 
nimic said:
Totally justified, he could have had a gun and he could have tried to use it and he could have hit one of the cops. The only way to stop a maybe bad guy who maybe has a gun is to shoot them 20 times.
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i know you are being sarcastic here, but even if he was armed he is literally face the camera when he is shot.

edit: I think he was facing. I am not watching that again.
 
WI_Red said:
i know you are being sarcastic here, but even if he was armed he is literally face the camera when he is shot.

edit: I think he was facing. I am not watching that again.
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He was definitely facing away from the cops. But you know someone is going to pop in here at some point and make all of those points sincerely.
 
@Skizzo @choiboyx012 when did PDs begin dressing their patrolmen and SWAT in traditional military style (color) tactical gear?

I saw a group of them in Vegas this past weekend, standing around in ACU/OCP pattern gear looking like operators I would have seen hanging around a TOC at a deployed location.
 
MrMarcello said:
@Skizzo @choiboyx012 when did PDs begin dressing their patrolmen and SWAT in traditional military style (color) tactical gear?

I saw a group of them in Vegas this past weekend, standing around in ACU/OCP pattern gear looking like operators I would have seen hanging around a TOC at a deployed location.
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it varies agency to agency. With the CHP we can’t even get load-bearing vests because the upper management is so traditional with the tan wool uniforms and duty belts. Feck our long term health I guess :)
 
NotThatSoph said:
We have to factor in the adrenaline.
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That is why SFOs are cherry-picked and further trained to be ice cold under pressure. They are the only ones to carry guns in the entire British police force because the odds of a feck-up are controlled to remain low.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
The pursuit at all costs thinking that is endemic with American cops is one of the problems here.

No one thought to stay with the abandoned car and search it. They might have noticed the gun that was apparently left behind and have been able to communicate that to those pursuing on foot.

Sure he might have had two guns (I've always said they like Lays chips...you can't have just one) but it might have descalated things just enough to avoid the guy being shot 60 fecking times.
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Good point and someone should always stay with the vehicle if there’s sufficient numbers.

Prevents him from running in a circle and driving back off for one, and placing everyone at risk again, as well as being important to secure and preserve evidence.

Had no idea about the initial part of the incident where the guy opened fire at the officers so do feel I’ve been misled somewhat in all honesty so that’s my fault. That said I see no justification as to why so many shots were fried by so many different officers. Doing so places everyone, including other members of the public, in eminently more danger.

Feels highly unprofessional, looks really poor and displays a lack of discipline.
 
choiboyx012 said:
Sorry the truth hurts. Yea, all US cops hace shit trigger discipline, so unarm them. In America ffs. What a brilliant idea.
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The guy was executed, and you condone it. Speaks for itself.
 
choiboyx012 said:
Speaks for what? I condone him being rightfully shot at, at the time he was. That’s it.
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Unless you know which bullet killed him, and that it was one of the first, then no, that's not true.

You said that he caused his own death. If he was killed while laying defenseless on the ground then you condone shooting him while laying defenseless on the ground.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Unless you know which bullet killed him, and that it was one of the first, then no, that's not true.

You said that he caused his own death. If he was killed while laying defenseless on the ground then you condone shooting him while laying defenseless on the ground.
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They were justified in shooting him, but again, I was speaking generally and each officer is responsible for his own actions. Some of them may very well have been unjustified if they started shooting late or when on the ground.
 
choiboyx012 said:
They were justified in shooting him, but again, I was speaking generally and each officer is responsible for his own actions. Some of them may very well have been unjustified if they started shooting late or when on the ground.
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I assume you also meant to add "if they continued shooting when on the ground". If any of these situations killed Walker, who caused his death?
 
NotThatSoph said:
I assume you also meant to add "if they continued shooting when on the ground". If any of these situations killed Walker, who caused his death?
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If you want to get technical then sure, his medical cause of death is by gunshot wounds. No one can determine for sure, but one can assume the initial shots until he hits the ground were enough to kill him. My point was that Walker himself is to blame for being shot.
 
choiboyx012 said:
If you want to get technical then sure, his medical cause of death is by gunshot wounds. No one can determine for sure, but one can assume the initial shots until he hits the ground were enough to kill him. My point was that Walker himself is to blame for being shot.
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No, I didn't want to get technical.

If Walker was killed while lying defenseless on the ground, who is to blame for the death? Was it the cops who killed a defenseless man lying on the ground, or was it the guy lying defenseless on the ground?
 
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NotThatSoph said:
No, I didn't want to get technical.

If Walker was killed while laying defenseless on the ground, who is to blame for the death? Was it the cops who killed a defenseless man laying on the ground, or was it the guy laying defenseless on the ground?
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His fault for not complying and dying when the first bullet hit.
 
NotThatSoph said:
No, I didn't want to get technical.

If Walker was killed while lying defenseless on the ground, who is to blame for the death? Was it the cops who killed a defenseless man lying on the ground, or was it the guy lying defenseless on the ground?
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You are getting technical if you’re cutting out the initial shots and focusing only on what occurs when he’s on the ground. No one knows at what millisecond he is “killed”. The shots on the ground are in fact relevant, but not as much as each officer’s decision to shoot in the first place. That’s how they’ll be judged.
 
choiboyx012 said:
You are getting technical if you’re cutting out the initial shots and focusing only on what occurs when he’s on the ground. No one knows at what millisecond he is “killed”. The shots on the ground are in fact relevant, but not as much as each officer’s decision to shoot in the first place. That’s how they’ll be judged.
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No, this isn't getting technical. Refer back to the example where a person knocked someone out with a punch, and then proceeded to stomp on their head repeatedly. I don't think you believe what you're saying here, obviously there is a difference between shooting someone once and shooting someone repeatedly. Obviously there is a difference between shooting someone on the run that you believe have a gun, and shooting someone lying on the ground who you know cannot possibly be a threat to you. You know this, yet pretend otherwise.
 
NotThatSoph said:
No, this isn't getting technical. Refer back to the example where a person knocked someone out with a punch, and then proceeded to stomp on their head repeatedly. I don't think you believe what you're saying here, obviously there is a difference between shooting someone once and shooting someone repeatedly. Obviously there is a difference between shooting someone on the run that you believe have a gun, and shooting someone lying on the ground who you know cannot possibly be a threat to you. You know this, yet pretend otherwise.
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I’m not pretending anything. I’ve shared my views on this. You’re the one pretending this shooting has a part 1 and part 2 when it didn’t happen that way and will not be judged that way. Of course if any one of the cops began shooting when Williams is down, or continued to shoot willfully and intentionally when he was down (factoring in physical response lapse time), then yes s/he will have been unjustified and violating (I assume) their department shooting policy.
Your hypothetical of someone lying on the ground defenseless and getting shot is obviously a bad shoot. But it’s just that, a hypothetical, and not the full story of events that happened.
 
choiboyx012 said:
I’m not pretending anything. I’ve shared my views on this. You’re the one pretending this shooting has a part 1 and part 2 when it didn’t happen that way and will not be judged that way. Of course if any one of the cops began shooting when Williams is down, or continued to shoot willfully and intentionally when he was down (factoring in physical response lapse time), then yes s/he will have been unjustified and violating (I assume) their department shooting policy.
Your hypothetical of someone lying on the ground defenseless and getting shot is obviously a bad shoot. But it’s just that, a hypothetical, and not the full story of events that happened.
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Walker was lying defenseless on the ground and got shot tens of times.
 
You know, that Sundiata Acoli was convicted of first-degree murder is a huge miscarriage of justice. When State Trooper Werner Foerster was first shot it was simply in an attempt to flee. That Acoli later in the interaction put two bullets in Foerster's head is just a technicality, you can't separate a shooting into different parts like that.
 
FTYEV29VEAE94Jw

those numbers pale in comparison. more cops died due to covid than in the line of duty :lol:
 
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NotThatSoph said:
Walker was lying defenseless on the ground and got shot tens of times.
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Not to play devils advocate in this volatile thread,but surely he means that the cops didnt shoot him, then paused, and then after said pause resumed firing while he was on the ground? :nervous:

Aside from that they're still entirely unfit to carry a gun and are lunatics for shooting someone 327 times.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Not to play devils advocate in this volatile thread,but surely he means that the cops didnt shoot him, then paused, and then after said pause resumed firing while he was on the ground? :nervous:

Aside from that they're still entirely unfit to carry a gun and are lunatics for shooting someone 327 times.
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Sure, but why would that matter?
 
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