I can understand people frustrated enough not to give the time of day for alternative opinions.
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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And how would you feel if those you disagreed with applied similar logic? It would be anarchy. Bigots, racists, assholes and Entropy aside - just bloody give people the time of day. Then if you still disagree, rip them to shreds with smarts rather than insults. I use ‘you’ generally, I’m obviously not directing this at you personally.
Honestly the situation with cops in the US have gone far beyond arguing and alternative solutions now.
Yes. It all boils down to a simple thing as I see it
"yes, we did it. So fecking what"
I agree that it’s horrible, tragic, terrifying and so many other things.
But... there’s still a conversation to be had. Always is. You can usually convince people if you employ civil discussion rather than reductionist shite. Particularly on a forum - why sign up if you aren’t willing to at least try to understand what has prompted someone to say what they’ve said?
Is it though? Wasn't it always the most likely outcome given the facts? The facts being that cops can murder black folks, set fires, violate citizens, steal property and be called a hero for it in the US. And why do we have 2 kinds of whites on the caf but only one black? Oh and it isn't a US thing only either, much of Europe isn't any better, it just gets less coverage.
You really think so? How long has it been now? How long have people asked for change and were promised change? The conversation has to end sometimes and turn into action when deprive people of their basic rights.
Edit: it's a football forum not a political forum, I don't think a lot of people signed up for political debates.
More rhetorical than a literal outburst, really. And yes, I have read the white text, too.
If this cop somehow gets acquitted, however, I'm afraid these riots could elevate to historic level. (i.e. LA riots). Possibly even worse; at least Rodney King was alive to plead to the public to get along.
Well firstly I don’t know what you’re hoping to achieve on redcafe beyond changing peoples opinions. That’s all that can be done on a forum. You’re not going to achieve any great victory on this forum. All you can do is convince people... so yes, of course a conversation can occur...
Also what a weird point re football forum and political debates. If you’re too dense or stubborn to discuss things civilly then don’t enter into the conversation. Why would there be different rules because it’s a football forum?
Yes, I share that fear. And as much as I sympathize with the rioters the truth is that the rioting will most likely hurt no one more than their own families and neighborhoods
.Wellllllllllllll shits about to pop off with that
It seems you didn't understand what I meant, I mean in the big picture of things minorities in the US are fed up of not being treated right by the police who are supposed to be protecting them, the best the government had to say was they are making the investigation top priority, if you watched the conference they said something along the lines "send us video evidence if you have some" and then said that there could be evidence for no criminal charges, they don't seem to care/listen to what people are saying thus rightfully so the conversation ends there for a lot of people regarding this issue and it's about taking action, I don't know why you scaled my response down to include just redcafe.
Damn, that reads somewhat like a Trump tweet.
Sorry not been around a whole lot lately, still have a PM to respond to, just haven’t had much time. Fee free to shoot me one if you have any questions, or ask here and tag me and I’ll get back when I can.
In terms of training in this instance, I really believe it had very little to do with a lack of training and a lot to do with him being an absolute piece of shit who wanted nothing more than to hurt that man. My quick .02
Watching that Minnesota police precinct on fire is such a beautiful sight. All they need now is to just toss a few of those dirty cops on there. Looks like it's going to be a Rodney King all over again.
When those pigs are at home watching this play out on TV right before their eyes in front of their own families, do they not feel any shred of guilt or reprehensibility? I'd just like to know.
Have any cops actually publicly condemned the actions of those four police officers?
When those pigs are at home watching this play out on TV right before their eyes in front of their own families, do they not feel any shred of guilt or reprehensibility? I'd just like to know.
Have any cops actually publicly condemned the actions of those four police officers?
I think the Feds do it right, regarding how they recruit and train. The bar is higher to get into Quantico or Glynco... But that's how it should be.
No doubt, we were just having a sidebar as to what could be done to get police training in the US up to Western European standards.
I would have to agree
Feds dont deal with poor black people though.
And this discrimination isnt only done by low iq cops. The justice system which are all educated to a tee is part of this.
It's not about training, it's about racist getting in position of power.
What they need is not training. It's vetting. Real honest vetting. This problem is easy to solve if the man up above wants to solve it. They just dont.
No. I understood exactly what you meant. We are talking on a forum, and actually, you were the first person that brought that fact up. Nothing that is said on this forum will actually influence what goes on at any strategic level. You literally said “the conversation ends there and it’s about taking action”. Why can’t you take action, and talk about it? Why is it one or the other? You’re not taking any action by posting on a forum. Might as well talk about the problem.
A poster earlier made the very interesting point that racism in the police is just a microcosm of racism in the US as a whole - it’s not just a cop issue. He wasn’t exactly greeted with people willing to discuss that further, nor were people generally receptive to anything he said. If you actually think that’s a good thing, then I don’t know what to say, beyond don’t expect other people to consider your own views if you won’t consider theirs.
Hasan Minhaj's show on this topic is always worth a watch. It aired in September, for a bit of reference.
I don’t trust the gubment. They’re authoritarian. Except the ones with guns. I trust them unconditionally.
Obviously that's not good, I 100% agree that racism in America is spread amongst the general public and also in the system but I think stopping police from killing black people takes top priority and it's what's on the table now, I think discussion about racism in the US belongs in another thread entirely, and not only racism towards black people, but towards all minorities as well, I also think worldwide racism towards Chinese people atm deserves a discussion but I'm not going to bring it up in a thread about American cops.
But I think his point was that they’re so closely related that they aren’t actually two distinct problems. Addressing societal US racism may address police racism was partly his point... at least I think it was... I guess we’d know his point a bit more clearly if he was given the opportunity to talk about it, rather than being hounded for not just saying feck all cops. And that’s been my point from the beginning. Let’s hear people out.
As an aside, I don’t know why you think they’re as unrelated as randomly referencing China is, but we clearly don’t see eye to eye.
No other evidence trumps 9 mins of a knee to a neck.
Its manslaughter minimum there's no 2 ways about it
Stop being a prick.
Thats all i asked for. Proof.
You cant make accusations without proof. Now you have it, I'll criticise it.
Now that you have it, they deserve what they get now they are making a conscious effort to increase the level of violence.
Its to give them an excuse when they start shooting as trump so eloquently put it.
Despicable.
I mean, do you want him to make a prejudicial statement that the defence could use to protect their client?
I'm sure there is evidence for both sides given the high standards required for prosecution of arresting officers using force while acting in their role in the US.
Their job is to get it right and bring a successful prosecution, not to dispel tension by making political statements. People are just going to have to be patient for the time being.
He's just an asshole.
Yesteday they were basless accusations which arent allowed on this board. I called the poster on it.
Im prepared to criticise the cops now there is evidence to support the claim.
But yea his still of posting in this and other threads adds nothing to discussion and just hinders his own arguments, which most people actually agree with, but youd never know it
Theyd be better of saying nothing in public and leaving it until trial than what was said
Not really, there has been plenty of civil discussion on this topic and other topics of race.
I'm not condoning anyone's actions by the way, just pointing out that civil discussion on this topic has been going on for decades, and yet here we are
Or raise tension by making political statements. He shouldn't have said what he said in my opinion. Say you are investigating and leave it at that.
Why are you so sure there is evidence?
Maybe, but I imagine they wouldn't have much choice given how high profile and how much scrutiny they will be getting.
The guy worded it horrifically and tensions at the moment meant that it will be taken in the worst possible way but I think he basically meaning 'no promises because of the way the law is written but we're working on a prosecution'.
That was the obvious way to go, a generic "no comment until the investigation is completed". But he didn't.
The rioting has happened many time before and hasnt made a button of difference either.
The only way itl change is if the people in power actually start handing out tough sentences as a deterrent.
Then you need to try and tackle racism in the country as a whole, then as you get new cops in and the old guard out, you'll gradually, year by year, whittle down racism in the police force.
Its far from an easy fix.
I cant wrap my head around how anyone can look at someone and based on the colour of their skin think they are superior than them. Its disgusting, but it isnt just cops.
Its a community wide, country wide issue, and until thats tackled you'll always have racism in cops, or any other job sector.
I agree the statement should have been as simple as that. Though people would still not be happy with that there is less to be analysed.
Because the laws have a higher burden for prosecution of police acting in the line of their duty. The testimony will likely all be indicating that higher charges will be harder to prove and there will be questions about which charges to bring that can be prosecuted successfully.
The evidence was enough to rightly sack the officers involved but the legal side is more difficult to get justice in. The prosecutor will be aware of that and probably sees themselves in a difficult situation to balance what people want against what they can achieve.
Is agree proving murder would be tough, but youd imagine manslaughter wouldnt be tough to prove
Depends on the evidence, the statutes and common law interpretation in that jurisdiction.
My understanding is that police get quite a lot of protection. Though I'm obviously not an expert. I just seem to see it over and over with those kinds of cases.
Well I’m not saying let’s have a civil discussion about whether that cop is in the right or wrong - he’s obviously in the wrong. He’s obviously an awful creature, obviously a racist. We don’t need to civilly debate that, and if people defend him, they’re probably racist assholes too. There are other elements in this episode that haven’t been discussed to death though, and they are worth exploring too. A few tried to do just that earlier and it didn’t go so well. I agree with your point though, it would be naive to think civil discussion is just going to cure all wrongs in the world. I’d also add though that if civil discussion doesn’t work, I can’t say I’ve seen evidence that attacking people verbally or otherwise works either...
But the government has the same issue than the police, as does every other administration, prejudice against minorities and disdain are pandemic. No action will ever be taken by people currently in power outside of token gestures for electoral purposes.
All I have to say is WTF??????