That's very true, I'm just saying for all those places that the US supposedly fecked up, there are also many that they saved from autocrats.
Cold War against China?
- Thread starter VorZakone
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True, and that's why this whole talk about protecting democracy and freedom is so nauseating for those on the outside. It's obvious the US defends their own interests regardless of these values. It's only natural people get angrier and more disgusted at a country saying something and doing something different then at a country we all know what bad stuff to expect.
Expectations from us yeah. My mother in law describes herself as a Chinese communist. She feels the chinese governmental style is vastly superior to democracy. In fact she's not democratic at all. Of course she never has a comeback as to the solution when you get autocratic despots who obviously aren't up for it. I agree that expectations should be higher for the average democratic voter at the same time totalitarian regimes do often enjoy popular support for some time at least. I wouldn't brush off support for the war on Ukraine from russians as an situation where they are just ignorant savages without agency. It wouldn't seem right or fair. Like on i dont pass the buck on Mao's red guard who murdered all our christian family friends because they were Christian.
Edit: im stoned atm and it throws off my spelling.
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Not true, the CCP also take the moral highground with all their bad deeds. Even Russia won't admit they are just invading Ukraine to expand their empire.
Admittedly I only googled for 5 minutes, but I can't seem to find any xi or putin speeches where they claim to defend freedom and democracy around the world.
Just a sidenote to this post. The funny thing is that most of the 'older generation' and people who support the junta government now in Burma have similar opinions about how a 'strong man' is needed to rule a country. Most of them said they don't believe in democracy and human rights. One even suggested that Singapore is very advanced now because of the cane punishment to control people not to break rules, etc. And apparently, "human rights" have ruined the country in the five years since elected civilians took control, and therefore going back to autocracy was the right thing to do for the country to go forward (or backward).
That's because democracy is a bad thing according to them, they just go with accusing the other side of nazism or imperialism instead.
Ukraine is an excellent example, Xi also accuses Japan of imperialism everytime any Japanese politician goes visit the Yasukuni Shrine.
Tbh I do the same whenever any English person says “football is coming home”.
Guess what. In vietnam US lost and vietnam recovered and chose its own path. In Korea, US tied and divided a country crippling it forever and never allowing to recover part of it
ukranians are relying on the US right now. Certainly. But I will not enter on the details what brought that situation and why the war is going that way when it could go "better" because it had been discussed already extensively and because in the end the major culprit by far is Russia to start the war. But again, as discussed previously of who would start an hypothetical war between China and US, US is a master in add tensions and stir the shitpot for wars to start or to make areas unstable to control them better
Me having the opinion that the US is the most evil nation on the last decades doesn't mean that I don't consider other nations evil. There are others and they do a good deal of damage like you mention Russia and China
That absolutely could be. Maybe and probably Russia and China would be worse if they would have this kind of power. But there are hypotheticals and we are in the world that we are now. But just for the sake of being facetious, maybe we would be living in a communist utopia if the USSR had prevailed
There are literally 1000 war criminals named in that shrine. What message do you think Japanese PMs are sending when they honour those who raped and murdered (and I'm toning down what they did) their way through China?
You blame the US for Korea?
Or maybe not.
How have human rights ruined the country? What's their angle here?
There are lots of stupid opinions in this thread, but that one takes the crown.
And just for the sake of being as stupid, maybe the world would be now living in a utopia if Hitler won, and Jews instead of being gased would be living good lives.
Cause it is internet and everyone can post stupid opinions.
I blame the US and USSR for the division of it
Obviously english is not my first (nor second) language but o thought that this was what facetious meant
So South Korea would have been better off if the US left them to their own accord to be ruled by Kim?
50 million+ South Koreans are more than grateful of what the US did.
Vietnam for all we know could have thrived much like S Korea & Japan have done for decades if the US won.
Anyway, we will never agree on this. For me, the US isn't great, but far far far better than any of the authoritarian regimes.
Yes and some people are a stupid to escalate to a personal level. There plenty of stupid like that in internet also
But not China? Who were the ones who essentially tied the US in that war and thus condemned tens of millions to live under the Kim dynasty.
Long story short, they are pretty fecked up in their views. Burma has had shitloads of rebellion groups for the past 70 years. In some people's minds, it was because of not having a 'strong man' who would have beat people's asses (more than that, of course) to get in line. So instead of looking at themselves for why this happened/ed (such as oppressing both major and minor groups of people, fecking the country up by implementing ' dog-shit versions of socialism and totalism', etc., while enriching themselves by collaborating with the likes of Chineses and Russians (who would not get into other people's business because they do 'charm offensive' or whatever) for decades), they pointed out that the elected civilian government stayed in power for merely 5 years from 2015-2020 trying to relax some of the oppressive rules and trying to look after people's minimal requirements made people unhappy under the current Junta who took all of them away (duh), therefore, it ruined the country and made civil war started again.
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People very often forget that Vietnam was attacked and went to war with China a couple of years after finishing the war with the US, for daring to choose a slightly different version of communism.So South Korea would have been better off if the US left them to their own accord to be ruled by Kim?
50 million+ South Koreans are more than grateful of what the US did.
Vietnam for all we know could have thrived much like S Korea & Japan have done for decades if the US won.
Anyway, we will never agree on this. For me, the US isn't great, but far far far better than any of the authoritarian regimes.
But the US are the biggest evil and to be blamed for 50 million South Koreans living prosper and dignified lives when instead they could have been starving.
So South Korea would have been better off if the US left them to their own accord to be ruled by Kim?
50 million+ South Koreans are more than grateful of what the US did.
Vietnam for all we know could have thrived much like S Korea & Japan have done for decades if the US won.
Anyway, we will never agree on this. For me, the US isn't great, but far far far better than any of the authoritarian regimes.
History is what it is. We would never know what we would be in an alternative world. What we know is that lots of autoritharian regimes that you criticize were and had been propped up by US
The same thing every country does when they honour their war heroes, China have plenty of temples of generals who "raped and murdered" their way to plenty of territories. Frankly, that's how war works in the old days, Mao still is and Stalin was (when it was USSR) still honoured all the time.
Yes. China certainly too. I guess they are not very keen on having US bases at the border la US didnt like Cuba back in the day and still make them suffer
But one side are one of the richest states in the world, with one of the longest longevity, and in general people have awesome lives.
While the others starve, and get shot and sent to gulags for daring to not have perfectly cleaned the picture of Kim the third when the inspectors enter random people houses at 3am.
And yet, you are presenting some sort of equality between them and their sponsors. It is a bit like equaling the Glazers and the city owners.
Thanks. Sounds rather complex. I don't know the ins & outs of the Myanmar civil war but I do tend to check the latest tweets from time to time.
Or Japan for occupying it which then meant it had to be liberated.
And i agree with you certainly one side had been backed by an autoritharian regime that was more interested in not letting them progress in order to not have good relationships with the west and the other side had been juiced up by the west for the same geopolitical reasons
Again. As i mentioned many times, i am not saying that china and russia are the good guys. Far from it. And they have a lot to blame specially in their area of influence.
But the US has more to blame in many more conflicts and in many more areas of inequality in the world. As @maniak mentioned, could be for position of dominance? Could very well be. Russia and china be worse if they would have that position of dominance? Could very well be
But is not the case. And the radicalization of the middle east, global capitalism innequality, fecked up latinamerica since 60s etc... US has a big part of the blame and that is affecting hundreds of millions of people directly or indirectly or killed or living in misery not letting them to progress
It is complex, and it is not in a way that it is very simple to understand that bullies with weapons took their turns to rule the country to enrich themselves, and they are lucky that the peace-loving country of China is next to them, not interesting in whatever is happening there, and would back them up in the UN as long as they get stuff from them for decades. For example, current and past Juna would bomb their own people, starve and massacre them, rape and kill political prisoners, and when outside groups called for it, China would be like, "People should not interfere in other countries affairs. Until recently, when the current Junta leader wanted to kiss Putin's ass (because Xi didn't invite him for 'important meetings', therefore, in his mind, not supporting him openly), his papa Xi whipped his ass for that pretty much. That was a high school drama stuff.
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Saw this a couple of days ago. I think Paul Verhoeven would like to have a word.
China’s Shipyards Are Ready for a Protracted War. America’s Aren’t.
https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chi...as-arent-d6f004dd?mod=wknd_pos1&mod=wknd_pos1
They wouldn't just be fighting America though, if it ever comes to that.
I dont think the west can beat china in producing anything faster and cheaper. Not even close my times over. And if they need to push it harder they can outpace even more the west. We are an accomodated society based in services. China is the manufacture powerhouse of rhe world and they have an obedient and haungry to progress workforce. Also much more compact on a nationalistic idea compared on the 2 nationalistic ideas that US has nowadays.
At war time sure the west will push but i dont see myself or the ones around me pushing harder than the chinese population. Oh and the chinese are more. And that counta also
The west can only beat china with a war machine more technologically advanced but the gap is closing and the US military professionalism and military knowledge is far far suprerior than any other
For now it would be a battle quantity vs quality. And the quantity gap is increasing on china's favout and the quality shrinking
I know we have some absolutely cringy shit in this country when it comes to our military but then I see things like that and I wonder if we re actually relatively normal.
I think the Chinese, Russians and North Koreans will always take the cake when it comes to cringe with the military.
I don't think the quality gap is shrinking at all, if anything it'll soon get larger again.
I base my opinion on bits and pieces on what I read, so not based on any facts that I can expose clearly therefore I might be completely wrong. But could I ask, why do you think so?
The chips ban has put massive spanner in the high tech sector in China.
Also, the US seems to be close to deliverying a few ground-breaking weapons like the B-21 that are far ahead of time.