Aye, I’d be pretty surprised if the club itself could secure financing on a 1-2bn build/refurb, even if the new owner clears the current debt from the club’s books.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Aye, I’d be pretty surprised if the club itself could secure financing on a 1-2bn build/refurb, even if the new owner clears the current debt from the club’s books.
Strictly speaking everything surrounding the bid should have remained private. Yet we know it wasn't the case. SJR had spoken about his intentions about Manchester United even after he was silenced by the Glazers. In fact he had given an interview about United to the wall street journal. Thus I doubt that explaining his concept of modernising OT would be a big issue to him.
I find that piece of information quite weird TBH.
a- the deal is being handled by Raine not by the Glazers
b I doubt that either Raine of the Glazers would give a feck about what SJR or Al Thani plan about OT. All they care is about the money.
Finally I want to conclude with what SJR said about Chelsea's bid
Ratcliffe told BBC Five Live: "There was some early exchange but we were a significant way apart on valuations.
"The issue with Chelsea is its stadium. We are all getting older and it is a decade of your life to resolve that."
Figurestrue. But Goldman and Sachs the founders are both dead too
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Maybe, but there are clubs doing it now specially if you sell naming rights and minimize the amount of debt/loan, It might not be 1b after all.
I'm in no particular camp when it comes to the Big Jim v Qatar debate because it's pointless, I have no power on what happens.
But I think the people who are convinced that Ineos will pull this off are going to be very disappointed. You better find a new club to support because I simply don't see how Qatar don't get the club. Future dealings with the Glazers on projects will swing it I think, that's too difficult to turn down. I think I'm right in saying that SJR hasn't met with the Glazers before.
But I think the people who are convinced that Ineos will pull this off are going to be very disappointed. You better find a new club to support because I simply don't see how Qatar don't get the club. Future dealings with the Glazers on projects will swing it I think, that's too difficult to turn down. I think I'm right in saying that SJR hasn't met with the Glazers before.
Chelsea’s was a decade though, they have an absolute nightmare stadium situation, hence why even Roman eventually shelved it.
Roman got planning permission in 2017, shelved it in 2020 due to the costs becoming astronomical, and it’s now 2023, 6 years have already passed.
It’s a rather unique situation the Chelsea one.
Nothing like OT in that sense.
And still, until we know the plans, maybe we don’t label it a red, green or yellow flag?
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You disagree then I assume?
I think that group consists of absolutely no-one.
Almost all against Qatar are because they believe the state is in some way, and INEOS aren’t outbidding the state of Qatar.
Any bidder who don’t express themselves in a clear and straightforward way will be scrutinized and judged with skepticism.
You’re absolutely right that we don’t know much about what’s in front of us but when comparing the two bids there’s only one winner judging from the limited information we have. That’s where at least I start when I take a stance for or against. Unfortunately SJR reputation isn’t the best when it comes to keeping promises (to put it mildly) and that’s also a factor why it’s easy to interpreter his words in a negative way.
Maybe I’m unfair from your perspective but as long as SJR can’t express his intentions in a better way then I will not change my opinion who I prefer.
I think that rebuilding or heavily modernising OT will be an equal if not bigger endeavour. You're like heavily tempering/rebuilding the Taj Mahal/Sistine Chapel/Pyramid of Giza version of football here. If SJR felt that Chelsea's stadium was big for his age (I don't blame him. At his age I'd be happy to be surrounded by my grandchildren rather then going through the hassle of heavily re modernise a stadium) then imagine OT.
And there's no red, green or yellow flag here. The fans have zero say on whom the Glazers are going to sell to whether the guy is Jassim, INEOS or Steve G.
I am referring to its relevance to football. There are very few places in football that are as iconic as OT is. In my opinion the place should be rebuilt. However I wouldn't want to be the owner/architect doing it.The 90’s & 00’s built Taj Mahal
Yeah but that doesn’t make it harder than Chelsea, they have very very limited land and even the new owners have spoken about at least 5 years renting once work eventually commences after planning applications etc.
It’s a huge undertaking that even Roman didn’t fancy, and feck me he fancied everything.
The Bernabeu has a what? 4 year timeline?
Timeline sucks. I was hoping they'd stop stalling and just piss off for good
Yeah, thought so too. Unless it is with money they borrow and the broker is involved
Agreed. Drip feeding the nonsense that they are very unwilling sellers is working great also I believe.
Still SJR mentioned longevity and complexity. Rebuilding/heavily modernising OT will need both. As said before, I don't blame a very busy 70 year old man from shying away from it. Hence why if SJR plans to get the fans on board then its important for his sake to explain what he has in mind . Everything out there seems pointing at a cosmetic modernisation which could be effective if done well but will need persuading the fans.
Hang on dev, on one hand it’s important for his sake to explain what he has in mind, but on the other hand….
I think INEOS have to be serious about their bid before they start pandering to fans, and get themselves in a position to win. Then they can give more detail about their bid, until then, as with your own advice, it achieves nothing.
My personal opinion is that I’d like Qatar also to give us much much more insight into their bid and how the feck they are funding all these “promises”. Until we know more from them, it could quickly turn into a Malaga situation of broken promises from a Qatari owner they all believed was rich as feck and would be their saviour.
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Would be a damn sight more than the Glazers have done.
It will be briefed tonight that the bids are some way short of the Glazer's valuation and as things stand, they favour minority investment as the way forward.
It’s not that simple
Uhhh indeed mate.
I'd thought the last of the Glazer defenders were long gone, guess not.
Whatever they used to initially buy United be it loans, PIK debt or some of their own money (wouldn't surprise me if that was also borrowed) it has all been paid for or still being serviced from club profits and sales of club shares.
They haven't invested a penny into United in 2 decades.
But apparently that's all false, alright then mate answer these questions please.
How much have the Glazers invested into United since 2005?
When was the PIK debt paid off and where did the money come from?
Where has the money came from to service the debts the Glazers loaded onto the club in 2005?
Where has all the money generated from class A shares being sold gone?
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Yup, Glazers are going to squeeze us till the pips squeak.
Seems to be quite simple in your regard.
Our opinion means nothing as the Glazers will sell it to the highest bidder. However if SJR is determined to get the fans approval then he should explain what he has in mind with the stadium. Regarding the malaga mess jassim has nothing to do with it. There are also rumours of QSI stepping in to sort abdullah's mess there. These guys seems obsessed in not allowing the al thani surname be associated with mediocrity
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im not defending them, I hate them..
they put their own money in at the start.. it’s not defending them to state this fact
now leave me alone
Does it? For me I can say….
I’m completely against state ownership, it makes a mockery of the game to be financially doped to that degree against 99.999999% of all other clubs on the planet.
I’m not 100% sure what INEOS are offering so far, what is their plan? I do like that they are not state owned though but I’d prefer to know more about funding, current debt and future infrastructure plans.
I do like that INEOS are extremely financially sound though and their 2bn annual profits give comfort.
I have absolutely no idea who is behind the Jassim bid, all reports make the incredible investment he is promising seems extremely unlikely without State help or loans. So “debt free” could simply mean no debt on Manchester United.
I’m very worried that without more information, it’s either state owned else a Malaga situation could arise.
In this thread the only people making such black & white claims appear to be the ones backing the Qatari bid to the hilt and attempting to smear everything INEOS related.
They couldn't sell last year -- football performance wise it was bad plus there was no visibility into the next season since we only had a temp coach. And how not sure much it would cost to correct the situation with the right manager.
I had a suspicion back in late August/early Sept -- and wrote it here -- that they may be selling the club when they decided to even borrow more to go BIG, in the last summer transfer window.
They are lucky that everything is moving in the right direction whether due to Arnold, Murtough or ETH or like most things in life, answer E, all of the above.
Now the power dynamics have shifted back to them again. They can play it however they want to.
They have probably instructed Murtough to generate 3 different transfer window scenarios -- worst, best and most realistic depending on the sale of the club. It would give them more flexibility in their sale process.
So whether they are being clever or just lucky, they have control of the process via Raine of course.
Rumours mean nothing though and the Malaga fans were convinced Qatari ownership was gonna be brilliant for them with an endless pot of money.
So there is the warning, that without knowing more about Jassim’s funding, we could be getting ourselves into a Malaga scenario, convinced we have a super rich owner desperate to spunk billions and billions only to find a much more depressing reality.
Why are you so quick to believe Jassim with so little evidence as to his wealth and funding?
I see the usual wild assumptions aren't slowing down in this thread.
Ineos need to explain where their money is coming from (true net worth publicly known), but this mysterious group of Qataris don't (true net worth hidden)
Ineos saying they will "modernise" the stadium, an ambiguous statement, but definitely means they might only do a tiny update to the club, when it makes no financial sense. Qatar will "rebuild" the stadium, another ambiguous term, but assumed they will there build a brand spanking new stadium.
Ineos will use banks to finance, bad. Qatar will use banks, but it's only for advice, and we have no idea of who is involved and how much money they have, but it's ok because they obviously all have unlimited funds in Qatar.
I could go on, I won't. One thing to consider is that when Ineos need financing banks will be queuing up to offer them the best terms available, it is night and day in comparison to the Glazers, who would have to go with a begging bowl in comparison. Nobody knows how Ineos will finance the deal and the reasons for doing so.
All the accusations and question marks against both sides effectively balance out. I am fine with people supporting whoever they please, but they should learn to detach emotion from what they decide to post, because some people are making themselves look a tad bit silly.
Ineos need to explain where their money is coming from (true net worth publicly known), but this mysterious group of Qataris don't (true net worth hidden)
Ineos saying they will "modernise" the stadium, an ambiguous statement, but definitely means they might only do a tiny update to the club, when it makes no financial sense. Qatar will "rebuild" the stadium, another ambiguous term, but assumed they will there build a brand spanking new stadium.
Ineos will use banks to finance, bad. Qatar will use banks, but it's only for advice, and we have no idea of who is involved and how much money they have, but it's ok because they obviously all have unlimited funds in Qatar.
I could go on, I won't. One thing to consider is that when Ineos need financing banks will be queuing up to offer them the best terms available, it is night and day in comparison to the Glazers, who would have to go with a begging bowl in comparison. Nobody knows how Ineos will finance the deal and the reasons for doing so.
All the accusations and question marks against both sides effectively balance out. I am fine with people supporting whoever they please, but they should learn to detach emotion from what they decide to post, because some people are making themselves look a tad bit silly.
700 followers, not verified and he's talking about buying "Man Utd"?
I wouldn't even reply to his emails if I were Raine.
I agree with wanting to know what the various parties' plans are going forward. But that's their magic sauce. So it's unlikely they will publish or leak out their plans especially this early in the process. There is no strategic advantage to doing it now.
They may leak it when one of them is selected for the exclusive bidder arrangement -- and conventionally to put pressure on the Glazers. But I am not sure if either Ratcliffe or Jassim knows how fecking tone-deaf the Glazers are to the fans' desires.
How can it be simple when we have so few details about either bid?
As said jassim has nothing to do with abdullah al thani. However yes I'd like to know more about jassim funding as well.
Still I prefer the al thani to ineos. Football wise ineos had been underwhelming with every club they own
Thats absolutely fair but you don't exactly come across as neutral.
Cause one guy promised some shit in a tweet. That is all.
Now we know next to nothing about this bloke and his funding mind.
ergo, “simple”.
I’ve never claimed Jassim has anything to with Malaga, I simply gave an example of a club and their fans jizzing their pants about a super rich Qatari owner, whilst knowing very little about him.
Football wise Jassim has been fecking terrible, nowhere to be seen.
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