Club Sale | It’s done!

[FlawlessThaw]

If there's 6 of them and they're wanting 6 billion for the club, that's 1b each.

Why would the other siblings settle for 500m each? it's not happening.

Well let’s say the Qatar bid is around £5bn. Glazers own 70% of the club so you need to raise £3.5bn.

However you’re only buying 4 of them out. So you only need to raise £2.3bn roughly as each one will pocket over £500m each leaving Avram and Joel in charge with the investment firm.

 

[Rado_N]

it’s like a transfer thread this and you’re all decrying the deal being dead in the water.

Chill out you muppets.

 

[AneRu]

Manageable rates for the first few years (in lieu of equity including that of the other siblings); backload it and if they fail.... do what they do best. The ol' sub-prime mortgage approach.

If Joel and Avram reject £5 billion from Qatar it would mean they feel the club is worth more so why would the other four not demand their shares be sold at that valuation? If, by Joel and Avram's valuation, they should walk away with a billion each then why should they accept walking away with half?

In all this it should be remembered that the other four are the power behind Joel and Avram. If they were to rebel and call for an AGM all they would need is to find five or six percent to have the controlling vote which could result in the other two being toppled.

I can't see the other four accepting an inferior pay off just to please Joel and Avram.

 

[TheReligion]

I just don't think the idea of them wanting to stay is so far out of an idea. Greed blinds people. Plus its Malcolm's gift to them, something emotional.

But my gut is that showing up at Wembley, I suspect is a PR activity to put pressure on the Prince to up his price. 20-30k max cost of going versus an additional few hundred million in negotiation leverage.

Chants of 'cnuts! cnuts! cnuts!' in unison wont bother them for that additional amount of money.

I bet it is timed with the Athletic article too of them doing a U-turn and not wanting to sell out.

They are cnuts but ain't dumb.

If his young kids come along then I would be worried. Then it maybe a sign they are staying.

No one really knows but I do find it strange that some people seem to want to cling on to every tiny thing that happens and slant it as they are definitely, 100%, no doubt about it, staying.

There’s a weird clamour to be negative at every opportunity on the Caf.

Odd.

 

[Escobar]

If Joel and Avram reject £5 billion from Qatar it would mean they feel the club is worth more so why would the other four not demand their shares be sold at that valuation? If, by Joel and Avram's valuation, they should walk away with a billion each then why should they accept walking away with half?

In all this it should be remembered that the other four are the power behind Joel and Avram. If they were to rebel and call for an AGM all they would need is to find five or six percent to have the controlling vote which could result in the other two being toppled.

I can't see the other four accepting an inferior pay off just to please Joel and Avram.

If they‘d think the club is worth much more they take a risky bet. We have serious financial problems that could hunt us, and despite ETH being a magician, we never know what will happen. We still have very little stabilty so imo they better sell now

 

[Mickeza]

it’s like a transfer thread this and you’re all decrying the deal being dead in the water.

Chill out you muppets.

We’re at the “they’ve made an offer but it doesn’t reach our valuation - he won’t be going anywhere unless that happens - he’s been great in training all week” stage of the bid after they’ve been named a starter in a pre-season friendly

 

[Adnan]

Do you honestly believe Glazers are the most incompetent owners? I strongly disagree on that.

Also, do you think that so far the senior team has not had sufficient investment and capital made available? I am debating whether the capital has been allocated in the best way.

I honestly believe the Glazers are incompetent owners. There might be worse owners out there, but for us, they've been bad for well over a decade and things started to unravel when we sold Ronaldo to Madrid and brought in Owen, valencia and Obertan with the proceeds. They neglected the youth development side and when Fergie retired, things came crashing down and them they had to spend. And that spend only came about with the owners putting a banker in charge of the football side of the club. Joel Glazer also endorsed the new contracts strategy which further cemented his incompetence and cost the club millions of £££s.



The capital has been made available post Fergie, but the capital hasn't been allocated in the best way for the reasons stated.

 

[Tarrou]

No one really knows but I do find it strange that some people seem to want to cling on to every tiny thing that happens and slant it as they are definitely, 100%, no doubt about it, staying.

There’s a weird clamour to be negative at every opportunity on the Caf.

Odd.

some people are just that way inclined

if anyone is convinced they're staying I'll happily give you 4/1 odds on your money

 

[Telsim]

If Joel and Avram reject £5 billion from Qatar it would mean they feel the club is worth more so why would the other four not demand their shares be sold at that valuation? If, by Joel and Avram's valuation, they should walk away with a billion each then why should they accept walking away with half?

In all this it should be remembered that the other four are the power behind Joel and Avram. If they were to rebel and call for an AGM all they would need is to find five or six percent to have the controlling vote which could result in the other two being toppled.

I can't see the other four accepting an inferior pay off just to please Joel and Avram.

As far as we know, the other 4 could also value the club at £6bn. So, what then?

 

[sglowrider]

No one really knows but I do find it strange that some people seem to want to cling on to every tiny thing that happens and slant it as they are definitely, 100%, no doubt about it, staying.

There’s a weird clamour to be negative at every opportunity on the Caf.

Odd.

You are right about being so cocksure about anything related to this sale or non-sale. We have almost zero insider information on the business data or the thinking of all the various stakeholders. Or even knowing where the money is coming from.

Honestly, I am just being a devil's advocate on all this. I can argue out of both sides of my mouth simply because we have no access to any information. Most people are just projecting.

 

[georgipep]

I honestly believe the Glazers are incompetent owners. There might be worse owners out there, but for us, they've been bad for well over a decade and things started to unravel when we sold Ronaldo to Madrid and brought in Owen, valencia and Obertan with the proceeds. They neglected the youth development side and when Fergie retired, things came crashing down and them they had to spend. And that spend only came about with the owners putting a banker in charge of the football side of the club. Joel Glazer also endorsed the new contracts strategy which further cemented his incompetence and cost the club millions of £££s.



The capital has been made available post Fergie, but the capital hasn't been allocated in the best way for the reasons stated.

Rangnick is your best source? Really? If we had a worse part of the club management structures than Woodward, it was Rangnick.

Also, why does it matter if funds weren't available during Ferguson's times if they were available in recent years?

 

[AneRu]

If they‘d think the club is worth much more they take a risky bet. We have serious financial problems that could hunt us, and despite ETH being a magician, we never know what will happen. We still have very little stabilty so imo they better sell now

Exactly and there are serious regulatory risks ahead especially in light of the City case - what if City sue the PL and FFP is found to be unconstitutional meaning that Newcastle, Chelsea and City can run amock in the market? Or a football regulator comes in targeting state backed ownership thereby taking out the buyers that are making football valuations go bonkers?

What if the regulator targets leveraged buy outs and give clubs like United a limited amount of time to get their gearing ratios down? Enforce some sort of fan ownership or representation at board level? All these things amount to one thing, reduced valuations of PL clubs and changing of terrain in the competition. Why wait for all the uncertainity when you yourself aren't in a financially sound position.

 

[Bubz27]

Anti-Glazer chants heard during the Barcelona win? I thought we only protest when we lose?

 

[TheReligion]

You are right about being so cocksure about anything related to this sale or non-sale. We have almost zero insider information on the business data or the thinking of all the various stakeholders. Or even knowing where the money is coming from.

Honestly, I am just being a devil's advocate on all this. I can argue out of both sides of my mouth simply because we have no access to any information. Most people are just projecting.

I think the only facts that we know point to a sale.

The rest is all conjecture and speculation.

 

[sglowrider]

I honestly believe the Glazers are incompetent owners. There might be worse owners out there, but for us, they've been bad for well over a decade and things started to unravel when we sold Ronaldo to Madrid and brought in Owen, valencia and Obertan with the proceeds. They neglected the youth development side and when Fergie retired, things came crashing down and them they had to spend. And that spend only came about with the owners putting a banker in charge of the football side of the club. Joel Glazer also endorsed the new contracts strategy which further cemented his incompetence and cost the club millions of £££s.



The capital has been made available post Fergie, but the capital hasn't been allocated in the best way for the reasons stated.

But do you blame the Glazers for that? Its an accountant's way of looking at things. You blame the Glazers for trusting Woodward. He's their man.

Most blame has to rest on Woodward -- built a dysfunctional organisation -- in my mind, intentionally. Divide & conquer so that he has most control over it -- motivated by the previous regime of Gill/Ferge where the CEO was subservient to the football manager.

 

[al tuna]

This is all posturing and peacocking and image control. Joel and Avram got their knickers in a twist lately and made the Qatari's and SJR camps stop speaking negatively about them in the press.

They feel a huge shift in positive mentality knowing their departure is imminent (along with EtH and his miracle work). So of course they'll "try and buy out" their siblings. And have their "love" for the club retweeted by journos. And of course they'll attend the cup final tomorrow. Why? They think we'll be dumb enough to have our last memories of them trying their hardest to hold onto the club they "love" and not them running as fast as they can to the nearest bank with brown sacks of money with dollar symbols painted on them and big grins on their faces.

Give me a break.

 

[AneRu]

As far as we know, the other 4 could also value the club at £6bn. So, what then?

Indications from Qatar last week were that the bid will be increased, I am sure the £6bn mark will be breached. They showed their hand too early, the Qataris and now the Glazers are pushing them to their extreme limits.

 

[sglowrider]

I think the only facts that we know point to a sale.

The rest is all conjecture and speculation.

The Glazers are greedy, cunning business folks. So they will leverage whatever tools are available to extract maximum value.

But what we don't know is how greedy they are based on what the projected future value of United is.

 

[TheReligion]

some people are just that way inclined

if anyone is convinced they're staying I'll happily give you 4/1 odds on your money

I think they are selling and the actual facts that we know point to that.

I understand this isn’t the transfer market but I strongly believe you don’t get formal bids for a football club if discussions haven’t been had in terms of the owners wanting to sell and for what price.

The Qatari bid has set up its own foundation as a vehicle to make the purchase. You don’t go to these lengths on a whim.

 

[tufapshakur]

The offers on the surface look good but I've read reports that the headline figure is comprised of some money that won't go to the sellers but instead is bundled in with capital being set aside for stadium maintenance and other issues that come to light during due dilligence. So the overall value of offers may actually be less than they were hoping at this stage of the bidding war.

I've also done two paid UK surveys recently about how I feel maintaining 3pm TV blackouts, my level of interest in a digital season ticket to watch all club games, how much I would pay and could I be tempted by a netflix-style subscription for the whole of the Premier League?

The Super League has also resurfaced. Big money there.

FSG suddenly doesn't want to sell and now the Glazers are possibly getting cold feed.

If some of this radical stuff has a realistic chance of coming to fruition, we could perhaps understand why suddenly the Glazers might want to pretend to be super-fans desperate to continue their incredible journey with us.

It's all a guessing game anyway none of us really knows what's going on behind-close-doors and the media has every incentive to stir the pot to drive clicks, ad views and subscriptions.

 

[Judas]

It’s gone quiet because they’ve all been told to shut up. But articles still need to be written and clicks still needed, hence the never ending news cycle of shite.

 

[sglowrider]

I think they are selling and the actual facts that we know point to that.

I understand this isn’t the transfer market but I strongly believe you don’t get formal bids for a football club if discussions haven’t been had in terms of the owners wanting to sell and for what price.

The Qatari bid has set up its own foundation as a vehicle to make the purchase. You don’t go to these lengths on a whim.

There is also the element of us being clouded by the hope that they will sell. The reality is no one has put a gun to their respective heads to sell this year. They may lose out a few million in retainer fees to Raine and possibly want to hold out when the general economic market is more conducive.

 

[Spoony]

I think they are selling and the actual facts that we know point to that.

I understand this isn’t the transfer market but I strongly believe you don’t get formal bids for a football club if discussions haven’t been had in terms of the owners wanting to sell and for what price.

The Qatari bid has set up its own foundation as a vehicle to make the purchase. You don’t go to these lengths on a whim.

Yep. And there's no way the siblings are taking market value vs Qatari valuation. They'll lose 30%. Utter tosh the whole thing.

 

[glazed]

Ive seen enough evidence from the past week to have a feeling that they are staying.

It may be that there is a difference of opinion within the family, or one Glazer is trying to shaft another. For example if Glazer 3 has to sell, Glazer 1 can refuse and then Glazer 3 has to sell to him at a discounted price. Then Glazer 1 sells a year later.

I still think the sale will happen but rich families can be very toxic.

 

[Adnan]

Rangnick is your best source? Really? If we had a worse part of the club management structures than Woodward, it was Rangnick.

Also, why does it matter if funds weren't available during Ferguson's times if they were available in recent years?

Rangnick isn't the source but rather The Athletic. Rangnick also only managed the coaching side of the club and the damage was done way earlier by a combination of Woodward and the managers he hired with the blessings of the Glazers.

It does matter because Fergie could've won more titles if we had been allowed to sign players who Man City signed unchallenged.


And the issue isn't about funds being made available but rather who they were made available to. Successful clubs have a DoF/head of football who best utilises the capital given to him and then proceeds to put in place the staff and strategy going forward. The Glazers had Ed Woodward in such a role who had no experience working on the football side of the club.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

There is also the element of us being clouded by the hope that they will sell. The reality is no one has put a gun to their respective heads to sell this year. They may lose out a few million in retainer fees to Raine and possibly want to hold out when the general economic market is more conducive.

A few million?

Raine will have a retainer of £100 million minimum, and something around 0.5% of sale value on top.

 

[AneRu]

The Glazers are greedy, cunning business folks. So they will leverage whatever tools are available to extract maximum value.

But what we don't know is how greedy they are based on what the projected future value of United is.

We are at a point where we need significant investment to ensure high revenues. Say they stay and next summer we only bring Thuram and Sabitzer for a limited fee, Rashford doesnt sign a new contract because Newcastle, now a CL club have offered him a Mbappesque contract, Chelsea have signed Osimhen in addition to their hundred signings, Spurs and Liverpool bought out and now more powerful in the market and we go out of CL positions but cant spend our way back in during the summer of 24.

Meanwhile, a serious buyer in Qatar has spent their money on Liverpool so that means there isn't another big spender interested, how will the value increase? Reports indicate that the two public bidders are the only ones interested they will be less buyers than there are now and the team is now light years behind their competitors. A bird in hand now makes more sense than an uncertain future ahead in these rocky waters where China could, in a day, feck the global economy over by attacking Taiwan, for example.

 

[TheReligion]

Yep. And there's no way the siblings are taking market value vs Qatari valuation. They'll lose 30%. Utter tosh the whole thing.

What are your thoughts big man?

 

[NorryKay]

The six sibling have 69.9% of B voting shares which roughly divides in 11.65% each which means if all 6 siblings value the club at £5bn or $6bn plus commissions to Raine Group. Joel and Avram would have to front up 46.66% or £2.33bn or $2.9bn, the only way they could do this is borrowing the cash against collateral and then borrow again to refurbish the stadium and squad development.

They would bankrupt the club, even they are not that stupid, we are now in the final game of poker in which the Glaziers are bluffing their hand to encourage the Qataris to raise the stakes, ultimately letting the Glaziers fold their hand.

Pretty sure £5bn should do it however the Qataris will want to privately own the club and buy all the A Shares as well, I’m not sure what they are worth with the day to day fluctuation but it could cost another £1bn for them to buy these up. Then £2bn for Squad and stadium redevelopment, only a complete moron would think If they do this deal it’s not state funded.

But hey they have good relationships with the British Government, Fifa and UEFA so if they want this to happen, this will happen.

I like the financial analysis

 

[sglowrider]

We are at a point where we need significant investment to ensure high revenues. Say they stay and next summer we only bring Thuram and Sabitzer for a limited fee, Rashford doesnt sign a new contract because Newcastle, now a CL club have offered him a Mbappesque contract, Chelsea have signed Osimhen in addition to their hundred signings, Spurs and Liverpool bought out and now more powerful in the market and we go out of CL positions but cant spend our way back in during the summer of 24.

Meanwhile, a serious buyer in Qatar has spent their money on Liverpool so that means there isn't another big spender interested, how will the value increase? Reports indicate that the two public bidders are the only ones interested they will be less buyers than there are now and the team is now light years behind their competitors. A bird in hand now makes more sense than an uncertain future ahead in these rocky waters where China could, in a day, feck the global economy over by attacking Taiwan, for example.

Maybe they have seen what ETH has done and think they are selling too early now?

 

[Adnan]

But do you blame the Glazers for that? Its an accountant's way of looking at things. You blame the Glazers for trusting Woodward. He's their man.

Most blame has to rest on Woodward -- built a dysfunctional organisation -- in my mind, intentionally. Divide & conquer so that he has most control over it -- motivated by the previous regime of Gill/Ferge where the CEO was subservient to the football manager.

I absolutely blame the Glazers because they allowed him to continue in his role for almost a decade after making countless mistakes. And he would've still been around if it wasn't for the ESL fiasco.

Compare that to the City owners when the new owners bought the club. They had Garry Cook in charge and he made mistakes and after the first season he was pressured into improving things and in stepped Brian Marwood who came from a football/structural back ground and he oversaw the development of their football structure which is still in place today.

 

[Spoony]

What are your thoughts big man?

Qatar will get their new toy. It's inevitable. You?

 

[georgipep]

Rangnick isn't the source but rather The Athletic. Rangnick also only managed the coaching side of the club and the damage was done way earlier by a combination of Woodward and the managers he hired with the blessings of the Glazers.

So, you are saying that Rangnick's opinion on the management decision were important, but also his own management decisions (like the coaches he brought) were poor? So, why does his opinion matter again?

It does matter because Fergie could've won more titles if we had been allowed to sign players who Man City signed unchallenged.

Sure, and how are new owners going to fix a problem in the past?

And the issue isn't about funds being made available but rather who they were made available to. Successful clubs have a DoF/head of football who best utilises the capital given to him and then proceeds to put in place the staff and strategy going forward. The Glazers had Ed Woodward in such a role who had no experience working on the football side of the club.

Hold on. You are telling me that you want the current management to be given a chance even with new owners. You are saying that sufficient capital has been provided in recent years.

But what is the problem again?

 

[sglowrider]

I absolutely blame the Glazers because they allowed him to continue in his role for almost a decade after making countless mistakes. And he would've still been around if it wasn't for the ESL fiasco.

Compare that to the City owners when the new owners bought the club. They had Garry Cook in charge and he made mistakes and after the first season he was pressured into improving things and in stepped Brian Marwood who came from a football/structural back ground and he oversaw the development of their football structure which is still in place today.

side note: watching the U18 now. I like the look of Victor Musa. Good composure in front of the goal.

 

[TheReligion]

Qatar will get their new toy. It's inevitable. You?

I think the club will be sold.

The Qatar bid seems the most likely as they seem prepared to pay whatever it takes and as I mentioned have gone to the trouble of creating a foundation to orchestrate the purchase.

 

[Drifter]

At the moment, it is a case of, nothing to see here.

 

[brian017]

Meh, it was fun while it lasted

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Will they ever feck off?

Or is this all just posturing for more money?

They are the worst thing to happen to this club. It’s unbelievable that they’d potentially saddle us with more debt to renovate the stadium they’ve let crumble.

 

[georgipep]

I absolutely blame the Glazers because they allowed him to continue in his role for almost a decade after making countless mistakes. And he would've still been around if it wasn't for the ESL fiasco.

Compare that to the City owners when the new owners bought the club. They had Garry Cook in charge and he made mistakes and after the first season he was pressured into improving things and in stepped Brian Marwood who came from a football/structural back ground and he oversaw the development of their football structure which is still in place today.

Can you substantiate this with any evidence?

And how is that different from Glazers making changes by moving on Woodward and installing new management?

 

[McTerminator]

Why not? If I have been promised a million according to the broker for my house and if they don't achieve the strike price, I don't have to sell.

No, but if you’ve upset your neighbours for the last 15 years and they start putting bricks through your window then you’ll take the best offer and still be selling…