why? nothing in your post really explained why
it surely can't be the bolded? they can get that much today, and getting the same in 5 years would be a disastrous outcome in reality
Club Sale | It’s done!
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why? nothing in your post really explained why
it surely can't be the bolded? they can get that much today, and getting the same in 5 years would be a disastrous outcome in reality
It's too risky. Then there's City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle. Sure we've seen got a fantastic manager but he'll need finances to compete.
Not allowed to post memes here but this makes me think of Rhys Ifans in his pants at the door in Notting Hill.
You got your fair share of warnings too?
Take out the Qatari bid, and just jow much would bidders be willing spend? £4b max?
But no-one's been able to name who they are. Dunno, it's just felt fishy since the deadline, I think it's possible the American interest has all just been in the form of the corporate vultures trying to prop up the Glazers.
The only way it works is if the investor buys a stake in the club, with them cashing in when the club is finally sold, there is no way they can leverage this sort of finance against United.
The first option still doesn't add up, but it does more than the second one.
I'm sure we must be missing something will this though, the two main bidders aren't stupid, and won't fooled into bidding more unless it was viable somehow.
A highly geared Kenos having to borrow close to 2/3 of their Capitalization to fund this deal on top of the $6b odd they already owe not facing similar questions shows people's preoccupation with the identity of the other bidder. This is why I am saying these questions arent legitimate, they are just meant to discredit and used as proof of a sinister state hand.
Interesting
The six sibling have 69.9% of B voting shares which roughly divides in 11.65% each which means if all 6 siblings value the club at £5bn or $6bn plus commissions to Raine Group. Joel and Avram would have to front up 46.66% or £2.33bn or $2.9bn, the only way they could do this is borrowing the cash against collateral and then borrow again to refurbish the stadium and squad development.
They would bankrupt the club, even they are not that stupid, we are now in the final game of poker in which the Glaziers are bluffing their hand to encourage the Qataris to raise the stakes, ultimately letting the Glaziers fold their hand.
Pretty sure £5bn should do it however the Qataris will want to privately own the club and buy all the A Shares as well, I’m not sure what they are worth with the day to day fluctuation but it could cost another £1bn for them to buy these up. Then £2bn for Squad and stadium redevelopment, only a complete moron would think If they do this deal it’s not state funded.
But hey they have good relationships with the British Government, Fifa and UEFA so if they want this to happen, this will happen.
But it doesn't change that four of them want out now, so unless they change their minds then the above doesn't really matter.
You are technically correct, there could be a hoard of other bidders no one knows about, and maybe the Glazers are delighted with the response. Good luck with that thought.
Most of us here are looking from the perspective of hope ... and this 'hope' blinds us from understanding the various possibilities and motivations of the two brothers.
Nothing is impossible -- we only have to go back to how the club was bought especially if they are greedy and there are folks willing to lend them money. Who then thought an LBO was possible back then? They can work out financial models that enable them to meet their projected peaking of United's values within their parameters.
And of course, they could be way off due to macroeconomic factors or overly optimistic revenue projections.
And that's when the vultures come swooping in.
Nothing is impossible -- we only have to go back to how the club was bought especially if they are greedy and there are folks willing to lend them money. Who then thought an LBO was possible back then? They can work out financial models that enable them to meet their projected peaking of United's values within their parameters.
And of course, they could be way off due to macroeconomic factors or overly optimistic revenue projections.
And that's when the vultures come swooping in.
You're deflecting now.
Woodward resigned due to the ESL fiasco (widely reported) and not for the shit show he caused on the football side of the club. One example below.
Yes Capital was made available, but the question should be who it was made available to. Bayern make capital available to people from a footballing background, so do Madrid and every other big comparable club to United. Why did Glazers make capital available to a banker to make hiring and firing calls?
We don't know if the new management are capable of utilising the capital effectively yet. We will judge in the coming years due to the likes of Murtough, Mayorga, Wells and Dominic Jordan being in new roles on the football side of the club.
Agree, I've tried many times to make it stack up for them to wait another 4-5 years, but can't.
Borrow the money to buy them out. It probably wont be based on the optimistic 5-6 billion that the 2 brothers are hoping for. More like what the current share price is worth plus a premium. And of course it would depend how desperate the other siblings are for cash.
we know where SJR's money comes from, it comes from Ineos.. what is left to ask there? we know he's borrowing, nobody really likes that but it makes sense at least
now the other lad supposedly has a net worth smaller than the cost of the club, so why isn't it legitimate to ask where the money comes from?
it's a normal question to ask frankly
I’m not technically correct at all. I’m correct. Outside of Raine and the Glazers nobody has a fecking clue who has bid. We only know about the Qatari and SJR bids because they decided to go public - something Raine told them not to do.
And it is our involvement in this arms race for talent that has broken the club's finances. Its been revealed that they took out another £100m overdraft in October obviously to fund operations, their stay isn't sustainable for the club and they don't have the money to invest themselves to plug the hole. They are gone.
The mods are omnipresent. The eyes are always watching!
I am on my last warning -- at least half are from a collection of memes!!
Fair point. Good luck.
If anything comes out that doesn’t tow the line that the Glazers are selling it’s a puff piece, just because it’s not what YOU want to hear
Instead of getting angry about something that hasn’t happened yet, can’t we wait to express how upset we are until after it’s happened? Too much wasted energy if they sell.
All expressing unnecessary stress and shortening our lifespan over something that hasn’t or may not even happen.
Instead of getting angry about something that hasn’t happened yet, can’t we wait to express how upset we are until after it’s happened? Too much wasted energy if they sell.
All expressing unnecessary stress and shortening our lifespan over something that hasn’t or may not even happen.
So what's that going to be, £2 billion?
I don't think they're desperate, they just want out, or it wouldn't have got to this stage.
the Qatar bid was known about for weeks before they released a statement
Because clubs don't tend to fall massively in valuation, unless they go bankrupt, which is something we aren't threatened by in the near future, barring extraordinary circumstances. But they do tend to rise in valuation over time, particularly with someone like Ten Hag at the helm, and the changes to European tournaments, which should theoretically be easier to get into from next year, due to the changes to the format. And it definitely wouldn't be a disastrous outcome, because they wouldn't have lost anything. It would only be disastrous for them if they've put money it. But they haven't and they won't. So the choices before them are sell now for 5bn and miss out potentially more money in the future. Or hold for now and see what happens. If the worst comes to pass, just sell for 5bn in the future. It's a fairly easy choice to make.
Yes…because they leaked it to Keegan. Just like SJR leaked his to the telegraph.
Anyway…is he doing this to improve relations due to them staying, to give impression they don’t have to sell to increase price or because he loves the club and ETH?
apologies, I meant why are you sure they aren't selling?
and yes if they get the same in 5 or 10 years as they could now it's a complete disaster and they have lost something
5bn in equity can earn you a couple of billion quite conservatively in five years.. with much lower risk than owning a football club
OK. If there are new owners, do you want them to replace the current management?
If yes, why?
If no, and we agree that capital is made available for investment, why is it unreasonable to expect better and sustainable results?
He loves the club:
Avram Glazer plans to attend Manchester United’s Carabao Cup final against Newcastle
nodoubutaboutit
Avram Glazer plans to attend Manchester United’s Carabao Cup final against Newcastle
nodoubutaboutit
That is not the choice though.
4 of the six glazers want to cash in now, because they don;t want the attention that comes with ownership any more.
So for joel and avram, there are two options.
Sell to the highest bidder.
Buy out their siblings.
It would take a couple of billion to buy out the others. The club does not have the profitability to support that kind of finance. And they have no other major assets they could realistically borrow against.
Certainly not their other sports team. They would be lynched for real.
No. Based on the NYSE share value, the club's worth 3.4 billion (?). The siblings own 60-70%?
So its like 1.2 billion (paper napkin calculation) to buy out the siblings plus premium.
Ive seen enough evidence from the past week to have a feeling that they are staying. The season ticket prices, the hiring of a new Director of Operations, Avram talking more about the club this week than the previous 17 years, all the BS about loving the club, the BS about wanting to keep Old Trafford where it is... Also as soon as FSG pulled out of selling Liverpool I thought the Glazers would do the same. I think both sets of owners were seeking investment, Liverpool had zero interest and the Glazers look like they might have secured a few billion.
Its time to accept it I think.
Which would mean, with current debt, loan payments stretching to over £200 million a year.
The club would be left with an operating budget similar to a championship team. Good luck competing on that.
I think it's important to make a distinction between the board and football structure when it comes to the management of the club. And I'd like to see the new people within the football structure continue in their roles under new ownership until they prove otherwise.
I think we should expect better, because for one, the new ownership can't possibly be as incompetent as the Glazers. Secondly, they will likely have more capital to invest in the playing squad in comparison, which can only help the existing football structure target their primary goals.
That loan to buy out the siblings I suspect wont be loaded onto the club. Not sure its possible anyway.
They will want the club to be successful to increase its future value. It would be loaned by the folks like Elliot in lieu of an eventual sale or maybe a small re-payment in lieu of equity. There are many ways to skin this cat.
Why would they let the remainers off that easily, if I am part of the four after seeing you reject a 5b bid holding out for 6b I am demanding my pay off to be based on the 6 billion valuation or we are combining forces with the other three to vote you out. Its worth remembering that the four constitute a significant voting block on which Joel and Avram rely on for the control of the club.
Joel and Avram don't hold all the aces here. Its much easier for the other four to break away from them and make their lives a living hell.
Elliot charged 15% on the Milan deal. They would want not just the stadium, but the land on it as collateral.
And they would take it all.
The glazers have no other collateral they could realistically use but the club, and certainly don't have the finances to fun a $2 billion loan themselves.
Yeah, they're staying. They don't attend this final at Wembley otherwise imo. Best get used to it.
yeah they won't
they'll want the same valuation Qatar are willing to pay, and nothing less
this is all irrelevant anyway as this clearly isn't happening
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