What does that have to do with anything?
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Oh, absolutely. Love the club so much they've fecked it into the dirt.
Precisely. How do you think the previous owners lost AC Milan? It will depend on how optimistic the two bros feel about the future of the club and therefore the value in the future. The other siblings may not be and would prefer the bird in hand. Or they may have cash flow problems themselves.
it's almost as if they're trying to convince everyone they're staying isn't it
funny that
The lengths some of you will go to in here are bizarre. Talk about over analysing every tiny little thing and jumping to the most negative conclusions.
Must be so draining.
Must be so draining.
Exactly. They are being offered way above market value, with the highest bidder likely to walk away for ever, and even worse become a massive competitor to boot. They will sell.
It's all starting to point towards Glazers staying which means us taking in even more debt.
Load of bollocks if that happens
Load of bollocks if that happens
Manageable rates for the first few years (in lieu of equity including that of the other siblings); backload it and if they fail.... do what they do best. The ol' sub-prime mortgage approach.
as if going to a game of football means they're staying
come on guys wake up
they never go to our fecking games
come on guys wake up
they never go to our fecking games
I very much disagree. 5bn equity can earn your a couple of billion... or can lose you a couple of billion, particularly if you don't have the acumen and the connections of your old man. There's also the volatile nature of the markets at present and the uncertainty of the future. I'd say right now football clubs are a decent, stable place to keep your money, if you've bought them beforehand. Sure, they might not possess explosive growth potential, particularly if the ESL is truly dead, but they also don't have a risk of massive decline either. It's why I think they will hunker down, weather the storm, keep the dividends rolling, and see what happens later on.
That is, of course, unless an extreme offer arrives, but I don't think that is very likely. We've been talking 5bn, but by all accounts they want at least 6bn. It's important to remember they don't need to sell. Maybe the other 4 want to cash out, but they want to cash out for the right fee. So the reason I believe they are staying is that no one will rise to meet their valuation, and unless that happens they have absolutely no reason to sell.
Its could be bravado to show folks like the Qatari prince that they are willing to stay if he doesn't cough up a premium.
Setting season ticket prices...
... attending cup finals...
...all this when he's planning to ride off into the sunset soon..?
They would own a chunk of the club but would give the voting rights to the two remaining glazer spawn. If the club is ever sold in future at an increased price they get their ROI then
I'm pretty much agree
The only solution for them is an external investment because if they'll try to put more debt(that they already been doing...) on the club - all hell will get loose
The only solution for them is an external investment because if they'll try to put more debt(that they already been doing...) on the club - all hell will get loose
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as if going to a game of football means they're staying
come on guys wake up
they never go to our fecking games
Devil's advocate -- he rarely shows up. Only costs him $20-40k to show up but it maybe worth a few hundred million in terms of bargaining power.
I have no idea how people are drawing a line from them attending this match to it meaning they're staying.
I could just as easily argue that it simply means they've decided to personally attend one last match/final/possible trophy before they sell up and walk away.
I could just as easily argue that it simply means they've decided to personally attend one last match/final/possible trophy before they sell up and walk away.
If there's 6 of them and they're wanting 6 billion for the club, that's 1b each.
Why would the other siblings settle for 500m each? it's not happening.
And why would the other four accept a vastly inferior offer for the benefit of the two remainers? If Joel and Avram decline a reasonable bid, say a £5.5b offer that could come from Qatar, why would the other four make it easy for them after missing out on a big payday?
You seem to forget that, in a split, the other four are more powerful as a joint voting block than Joel and Avram. So if Joel and Avram want to buy them out it would be at seriously generous terms that match the value they would be holding out for. Borrowing £1.2 billion at current rates will cripple the club.
I just meant index funds, which usually pay a solid 10% pa and they'd obviously be spreading this over several countries, markets and sectors
but anyway, the point is capital is valuable, and having an asset that stagnates is costly in real terms
I don't see why they'd take that if there's £5 billion on the table, which would mean tens of millions more each for them, they might be family, but I doubt they'd write off this sort of money.
Even if they did then they'd need to borrow £1.2 billio, which they can't leverage agains the club, so that will mean them paying the interest out of their own pockets, or selling a percentage of the club to whoever gives them the money, with them getting their payoff when the club is sold.
Now I'm sure there's some calculations, income projections, etc, that can make that add up somehow, but it's a strech to say the least, and ths before the stadium rebuild comes into, and the fan backlash that will follow.
It's also such a good time to get a return on money, and not a good time to borrow money, so they could feesibly just cash in now and make more than the club value 'might' increase just by putting it in safe investments.
Other than them wanting to stay, and money not been the main overriding motivation, then I don't get it.
Not sure I get the logic of how going to a final means they're staying. Pretty easy to spin it the other way and say they want to show they left a team that could win something/on the up.
Why not? If I have been promised a million according to the broker for my house and if they don't achieve the strike price, I don't have to sell.
It could equally be them going as a last act before they go.
Plenty of reasons why and they don’t all point to them staying at all.
Greed.
You ignored the important bit.
The club cannot afford those payments.
The glazers cannot afford those payments.
So where is the loan you think they are getting being funded?
They aren't staying ffs. Qatar will buy the club within the next few months. Stop being so paranoid
Ah I see. So the shares go Glazer siblings > Elliot, and not Glazer> Glazer.
I don't see this being an attractive proposition for a hedge fund unless they get paid interest on top (eg a convertible debt note). Which leaves the question, who pays for that?
There's only one flaw with thinking about this from a business point of view; the Glazers are idiots.
I disagree. But it’s just a hunch. On the other hand, from the point of view of the two siblings determined to hang in there, it might be seen as a smart strategy to invite potential offers, up the share value, and highlight how attractive the Glazers are as custodians besides some of the other horrors that could emerge. As some have rightly pointed out here, there are no particularly great options, at least that we know about. It goes from unspeakable regime ownership, to nasty blood-sucking parasites, to maybe but maybe not.
I just don't think the idea of them wanting to stay is so far out of an idea. Greed blinds people. Plus its Malcolm's gift to them, something emotional.
But my gut is that showing up at Wembley, I suspect is a PR activity to put pressure on the Prince to up his price. 20-30k max cost of going versus an additional few hundred million in negotiation leverage.
Chants of 'cnuts! cnuts! cnuts!' in unison wont bother them for that additional amount of money.
I bet it is timed with the Athletic article too of them doing a U-turn and not wanting to sell out.
They are cnuts but ain't dumb.
If his young kids come along then I would be worried. Then it maybe a sign they are staying.
Let me preface this by saying I don't for one second believe the Sheikh Jassim bid isn't a state bid.
And yes it's not implausible that HBJ has a vast personal fortune that would allow him to buy United from cash reserves just as its not implausible that he doesn't. No one knows, if it is private and they have the money to do what they promise then despite some reservations I would be ok with their bid and probably prefer it.
All I'm saying is if a United fan truly believes that it's a private takeover bid fair enough. But in that case then they should be asking themselves and others questions about where the funds are coming from and the motivations and long term commitment they will have to owning Man Utd.
how much would the siblings need from the Glazer brothers to match the Qatari bid? Also, I watched the first episode of Succession, surely they're just like the Glazer family?
Looks like it’s going to be Glazers with extra debt / investment then.
I wonder if the Qataris will move onto Liverpool now
I wonder if the Qataris will move onto Liverpool now
They aren't idiots. They're businessmen with decades of experience and a large combined net worth. They aren't going to behave like cretins and amateurs when conducting business for an asset worth billions
I'm wondering if they sense things are back in good shape at United and others are struggling, and went to be around for any success we have over the next few years. They probably think our value will increase if we do get back to the top.
Do you honestly believe Glazers are the most incompetent owners? I strongly disagree on that.
Also, do you think that so far the senior team has not had sufficient investment and capital made available? I am debating whether the capital has been allocated in the best way.
I am sure if FSG knows roughly they price the Qataris are willing to pay for United, it may force them to re-think their decision.
They aren't going to drive it into further depth, and have crumbling infrastructure, and turn the once dominant force in British football into a club that have taken a decade to get back to competing?
Nah mate, as far as I'm concerned as a United fan they're fecking morons.
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