Well no, you’ve got that very wrong
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Well no, you’ve got that very wrong
Not as long as wummy is around doing his gotcha nonsense
Yeah its not clear what Radcliffe's aims are. He has been eerily reticent while the Qataris can't stop talking about the deal.
I doubt INEOS are under the assumption they'll be able siphon off millions from the club. They must have seen our books. We aren't going to generate a profit that warrants a 5 billion investment.
Maybe they plan to sell us on for fatter stacks like the Glazers did.
Radcliffe should publicy state his intentions that would help allay some of the fears Utd fans have.
His PR has been horrendous. Certainly implies he'll be the kind of owner who doesn't give two shits about the fans and there won't be an active dialogue.
Or… they just aren’t that good. SAF won just two CL titles, City have none.
It’s pretty fecking hard to win.
They could of course be bullshitting. But the Qatar bid outlined all the key sporting notes you want to hear. Aiming for the very top on the field, no profits taken out of the club, new stadium and training ground.
I was already underwhelmed by Sir Jim deciding to finance his bid via a company like Goldman Sachs, but he didn't offset this with any firm offering at all.
I was already underwhelmed by Sir Jim deciding to finance his bid via a company like Goldman Sachs, but he didn't offset this with any firm offering at all.
Also, as someone who has been there, I don’t get why it would qualify me to talk about something as an authority - especially when it’s blindingly obvious in many of these countries as Westerners we see a world that’s very different to the reality of the everyday person living in the country.
Most of the thread is nonsense.
I'd say 99.9% of United fans hadn't heard of the guy before this week. So no I doubt if anyone actually does know if he personally can deliver on a brief one paragraph plan that has been lain out.
But then of course we all do know this guy isn't who's really trying to buy United so it's perhaps a moot point.
I’ve umm’d and ahh’d over this for the last few days since the Qatar interest has manifested itself, and seemingly every 5 mins spent thinking about my personal opinion on the matter, I’m just left torn.
I think it’s great that so many people are highlighting their human rights record & lack of support for women and the gay community - but, then what? What are you expecting to happen after that?
It kind of reminds of the reaction when something overtly racist happens - like Rashford, Saka & Sancho missing their pens in the Euro Final and the trolls came out in force, but as a country we all banded together to stomp out racism, and make it clear that it’s wrong. Great. Then what? Not much else you can do beyond that right, you just have to live life knowing that people who hold such views live among us and could be in positions of power. It’s disappointing but life can’t stop.
I’ve spent the last 10 years or so being part of social movements, primarily rooted in Black & LGBTQ progression - and one of the hardest parts about it is, you can care so deeply about an issue, and put your heart, soul & every ounce of effort into wanting to see change - and it still won’t move the needle, because the people who have the power to make change, are often the very people you’re fighting against or the people who are indifferent.
So yeah, it’s great to see so many people pushback on a country with an ideology that isn’t accepting of all people - but I want you all to realise that you’re going to have to live with the disappointment that your good intentions & moral code isn’t enough.
Maybe one day in the future Qatar will change its laws on human rights & equality, hopefully soon, however this guy buying Manchester United, will not have an impact on that. The best that we can hope for, is that he personally doesn’t believe gay people & women are less equal, in the same way I have to try and believe everyone I come across isn’t racist.
Side note: Sir Jim being a tax-haven living Brexit voting gammon doesn’t sit well with me either, (though obviously doesn’t compare) there’s no such thing as a good billionaire.
If Al Thani buys us, he has to invest in the women’s team & their facilities, and also make it clear that everybody regardless of their sexuality is a part of this club. Beyond that, I’m not expecting much else.
I don’t know if that makes sense, and maybe in another 5 mins my mind will change again - but ultimately, the closest thing I can compare the feeling to, is that reluctant acceptance that people treat others differently for things they have no control over, and you can’t change their mind about it. Anybody who’s part of an oppressed minority can probably relate.
On to the football side of things, we don’t need someone who needs to falsify sponsorships in order for us to generate revenue. Even after 10 years of almost no success we generate £700M in revenue, and without the glazers & their debt, I calculate approximately £150-200m that we could spend on a yearly basis - depending on where we finish in the league - without needing to dip into cash reserves. And for a manager like EtH that’s more than enough.
That being said, the glazers have clearly sucked us dry, so whoever does come in - needs to pay off the debt, not just move it via accounting. And, for the first window at least inject some cash for us to spend - we can be self-generating afterwards. Sir Jim’s offer is the least appealing based on this.
The others are nice to haves - yes it would be nice to have a new stadium, new facilities etc but it won’t stop any on-field success we have, it would simply make sure we’re not falling behind our competitors in those spaces.
If someone comes in & makes us debt free, we can still finance a new stadium & upgrade our facilities, because EtH won’t need to spend £200m every single year - so a new stadium might take 8 years instead of 3-5 for example.
I’ll wait until more details come out, SJR needs to be more transparent about how he’s raising his funds & how he plans on investing in the club if he’s having to loan from 2 different banks - both of which are also very questionable.
I like the Progress Pride flag that Arsenal have in their stadium, maybe we could get a banner with that flag hung in the stadium, that would be great.
I think it’s great that so many people are highlighting their human rights record & lack of support for women and the gay community - but, then what? What are you expecting to happen after that?
It kind of reminds of the reaction when something overtly racist happens - like Rashford, Saka & Sancho missing their pens in the Euro Final and the trolls came out in force, but as a country we all banded together to stomp out racism, and make it clear that it’s wrong. Great. Then what? Not much else you can do beyond that right, you just have to live life knowing that people who hold such views live among us and could be in positions of power. It’s disappointing but life can’t stop.
I’ve spent the last 10 years or so being part of social movements, primarily rooted in Black & LGBTQ progression - and one of the hardest parts about it is, you can care so deeply about an issue, and put your heart, soul & every ounce of effort into wanting to see change - and it still won’t move the needle, because the people who have the power to make change, are often the very people you’re fighting against or the people who are indifferent.
So yeah, it’s great to see so many people pushback on a country with an ideology that isn’t accepting of all people - but I want you all to realise that you’re going to have to live with the disappointment that your good intentions & moral code isn’t enough.
Maybe one day in the future Qatar will change its laws on human rights & equality, hopefully soon, however this guy buying Manchester United, will not have an impact on that. The best that we can hope for, is that he personally doesn’t believe gay people & women are less equal, in the same way I have to try and believe everyone I come across isn’t racist.
Side note: Sir Jim being a tax-haven living Brexit voting gammon doesn’t sit well with me either, (though obviously doesn’t compare) there’s no such thing as a good billionaire.
If Al Thani buys us, he has to invest in the women’s team & their facilities, and also make it clear that everybody regardless of their sexuality is a part of this club. Beyond that, I’m not expecting much else.
I don’t know if that makes sense, and maybe in another 5 mins my mind will change again - but ultimately, the closest thing I can compare the feeling to, is that reluctant acceptance that people treat others differently for things they have no control over, and you can’t change their mind about it. Anybody who’s part of an oppressed minority can probably relate.
On to the football side of things, we don’t need someone who needs to falsify sponsorships in order for us to generate revenue. Even after 10 years of almost no success we generate £700M in revenue, and without the glazers & their debt, I calculate approximately £150-200m that we could spend on a yearly basis - depending on where we finish in the league - without needing to dip into cash reserves. And for a manager like EtH that’s more than enough.
That being said, the glazers have clearly sucked us dry, so whoever does come in - needs to pay off the debt, not just move it via accounting. And, for the first window at least inject some cash for us to spend - we can be self-generating afterwards. Sir Jim’s offer is the least appealing based on this.
The others are nice to haves - yes it would be nice to have a new stadium, new facilities etc but it won’t stop any on-field success we have, it would simply make sure we’re not falling behind our competitors in those spaces.
If someone comes in & makes us debt free, we can still finance a new stadium & upgrade our facilities, because EtH won’t need to spend £200m every single year - so a new stadium might take 8 years instead of 3-5 for example.
I’ll wait until more details come out, SJR needs to be more transparent about how he’s raising his funds & how he plans on investing in the club if he’s having to loan from 2 different banks - both of which are also very questionable.
I like the Progress Pride flag that Arsenal have in their stadium, maybe we could get a banner with that flag hung in the stadium, that would be great.
Jimmy on the ropes.
So, are only Qatar and INEOS the ones that will be bidding from now on? Will there be a window that new bidders come forward?
yeah it's cringy stuff but surely all that matters is the highest bid?
Yet a bunch of people thought Chelsea was worth more, and at least 2 think United is.
So yes, United factually is worth much more than your 2.5bn valuation.
66% of Athletic subscribers clueless.
Where are Jim’s quotes? Can anyone provide a source, I’ve asked 5 times now.
It's a shitshow of baseless hot takes on whether people have no morals or fake morals.
There are one or two eyebrow raisers but mostly it's just uneccesary.
If Radcliffe is not paying off the debt and also getting a loan to buy us (so will take money out the club to pay off his loan) then it’s an awful option.
Yeah I have a friend that works in the middle east and he has a great life there. But in the time he's been there he has come to realise he's largely insulated from the majority of the issues Qatar and other states have been criticized for.
So PSG will be our feeder club 
How is it nonsense?
People have completely changed their opinions on literal human rights and deaths of vulnerable people because it benefits them. It should be constantly mentioned.
The most balanced and honest take on here.
In the glazers eyes probably
But as a fan, I want to see more depth in their ideas. Put my mind at ease about the debt and not taking all the profits otherwise we’re swapping one glazer for another.
British though. All that matters.
If you take a global poll Qatar will be the unanimous choice. The statement issued by them is crisp and clear. They are not bringing in a burden of debt which is most important. Let's see how it concludes.
Please not Jim
Exactly the kind of post that shows football has completely lost it's soul. This thread is a car crash of these types of posts. Disgusting.
very good post. I am ashamed that although I pay lip service to anti-racism, anti-gender rights, I am one of the silent majority who don't really do much about it (although I do defend my views strenuously at my golf club - full of reactionary old geezers so you can imagine their politics - they look upon me as an ageing hippie, I think and tolerate me. But for the club I have followed for over 60 years to be owned by a country with questionable human rights, makes me more than uneasy. Mind you, you could say that about the USA (or us to a lesser extent). I would hazard that even if we were taken over by Qataris, Kuwaitis or Saudis, I would probably still support the Club that is deeply ingrained into my soul.
I don't know if we can post 12ft.io links but heres the actual article in paywall form
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...d-takeover-sir-jim-ratcliffe-enters-race-bid/
look at Nice two seasons pre takeover. That simply isn’t true.
As things stand, they have a great new DoF onboard, picked by the cycling director, they are on a good run of form, just 4 points off a European spot, and post takeover they have finished 5th twice.
What “success” haven’t they replicated?
Here’s a more up to date article to read to give another view on INEOS quickly making changes and being prepared to bring in young highly rates DOF and manager.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...anager-didier-digard-ligue-1-will-still-reims
There is probably a good answer but none of them are palatable.
Now one thing that I really struggle to understand is how british people can so easily support Ratcliffe when his Brexit involvments show that he has zero care for the average british citizen. I have him next to Murdoch in the ostensibly despicable human being tree.
Yeah but if you take the niche, exclusive votes of that Athletic poll then its SJR as the unanimous choice. Weird. I know where I'm trusting.
You don’t know that, and there’s no good option to choose here so people are trying to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea while you run around going “aha!” at them like you’re superior. It’s tiresome.
You can simply post the full SJR quotes from the article?
There have been literal numerous people who have completely changed their mind. I have shown it.
if you cared aboht human rights in qatar but not when you get Mbappe, I am literally a better person yes.
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