Club Sale | It’s done!

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Mr Pigeon said:
I might be wrong but didn't he get Sociedad B relegated just before he got the Leverkusen job? Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can explain that one but I'd rather have McKenna than Alonso right now, at least until Alonso showed a bit more consistency in his career.

However, I know he played for them but he wasn't that much of a wanker. Plus he also pissed off Benitez by missing a CL match because his wife was giving birth. Two plus marks from me there for putting family first, and also for annoying the Fakts Man.
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Leverkusen are playing fantastic football atm and breaking records in the Bundesliga. Mckenna is doing a good job at Ipswich on the back of coaching the worst Man United team in modern history.

I would not be surprised if Alonso were to go an be the next Madrid coach.
 
sglowrider said:
What you have described called the breakdown or the teardown of the Ineos Curse? The opposite of the Midas touch.




People need to go into this new era with our eyes wide open.

We are so desperate as a fan base that we are treating Ratcliffe as some knight in shining armour who would swoop in and make things all magical again.... Without actually looking at facts or thinking that managing United is so obvious and is being done by incompetent fecks at the moment.

See the teardown of the decline of Team Ineos post above.

Past is prologue as one smart man once said.
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Might take Jordans comments bit more seriously if it wasn't for the fact (a) things have been a shambles at United for a while already and (b) that he's an absolute cockwomble
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I might be wrong but didn't he get Sociedad B relegated just before he got the Leverkusen job?
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He is the one who got them promoted in the first place, their first promotion to 2nd tier in decades.

In general, B teams don't last long in 2nd tier. Right now there's only 1 (Villareal B).
 
macheda14 said:
That’s not the point. You said it was ironic to call PSG a circus because they are above Nice. They are a circus and their position is irrelevant to that.
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The 'circus' are still above prime Nice. That was my point. Then I went on explaining that both clubs were circuses and both seem to have learnt from their mistakes
 
VP89 said:
They got rid of those players, and now their CEO is Fabrice Bocquet, so they learned from their mistakes. Why are you making up that they haven't?

Fabrice Bocquet has extended experience of being CEO for another football club.

The PSG Chairman is a retired Tennis player who has constantly made the same mistakes at feck all cost to his job since 2011.

I didn't say INEOS didn't make mistakes. I said the learned from them whereas PSG didn't, for 10+ years. There is little basis to argue PSG isn't worse run.


Moreover, you said there was little to argue that Sheikh Jassim wouldn't have run the club poorly. Very low evidence to suggest this. In fact the people assigned to turn up on his behalf for the second round of bids (because he was too lazy to rock up himself) were the people tipped for key roles. Not one of them had actual sporting experience.
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Psg has hired campos as sporting director. He got rid of a big chunk of the big salaried players and had invested on young players instead. Despite losing many top players thus reducing the salary bill they are still 1st in the French league

Both seem to have come to the same conclusions ie focus on top people to manage behind the scenes and on young players
 
devilish said:
Psg has hired campos as sporting director. He got rid of a big chunk of the big salaried players and had invested on young players instead. Despite losing many top players thus reducing the salary bill they are still 1st in the French league
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PSG still have a retired tennis player as CEO. And this insinuation that INEOS haven't learned from mistakes is bullshit. They made positive changes that put them in a stronger position today.

You also talk about Nice protests as though it's something new in France. Psg fans have protested at their club too. Quite recently in fact and that's after a decade of reign.
 
VP89 said:
PSG still have a retired tennis player as CEO. And this insinuation that INEOS haven't learned from mistakes is bullshit. They made positive changes that put them in a stronger position today.

You also talk about Nice protests as though it's something new in France. Psg fans have protested at their club too. Quite recently in fact and that's after a decade of reign.
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Please do post were I said that ineos hasn't learnt from their mistakes. I plastered that it did in almost every post about ineos in the past week or so
 
devilish said:
Please do post were I said that ineos hasn't learnt from their mistakes. I plastered that it did in almost every post about ineos in the past week or so
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Apologies, corrected on that.
But this idea that PSG isn't worse run than Nice I find weird. They have a decade of bare minimums and their CEO has never taken any sort of accountability or consequence for his poor decisions. Moreover he has no footballing pedigree and is there because of his Qatari relations more than anything else.

And I think there's a good basis to suggest Sheikh Jassim would do the same.
 
devilish said:
Quite frankly I can't see beyond Ashworth and Edwards for the sporting director role. Berta is good as well but has zero EPL experience. Mitchell would be great as Head of Recruitment
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Cant see how we can pry ashworth out of the Saudis hands... And don't say bone saws.
 
VP89 said:
Apologies, corrected on that.
But this idea that PSG isn't worse run than Nice I find weird. They have a decade of bare minimums and their CEO has never taken any sort of accountability or consequence for his poor decisions. Moreover he has no footballing pedigree and is there because of his Qatari relations more than anything else.

And I think there's a good basis to suggest Sheikh Jassim would do the same.
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I said that both were ran terribly and they both had now learnt from their mistakes
 
devilish said:
I said that both were ran terribly and they both had now learnt from their mistakes
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You said INEOS were not run better than PSG. It took PSG a decade to place a competent director of football and they still have an ex tennis player as chairman. It's fair to argue that INEOS run their club better, by conducting a proper review of the mistakes and amending them with better representatives at managerial and chairman level.

PSG trying a daft galactico experiment of Messi, Neymar and Mbappe wasn't that long ago, and a lot of people could see the issues with it in real time.
 
VP89 said:
You said INEOS were not run better than PSG. It took PSG a decade to place a competent director of football and they still have an ex tennis player as chairman. It's fair to argue that INEOS run their club better, by conducting a proper review of the mistakes and amending them with better representatives at managerial and chairman level.

PSG trying a daft galactico experiment of Messi, Neymar and Mbappe wasn't that long ago, and a lot of people could see the issues with it in real time.
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I said that the 'circus' is still ahead to a prime Nice. I also went on explaining that both were run badly and both had since learnt from their mistakes.

What PSG had done is not that different to what the new rich clubs had done at the beginning of their reign. You might not remember City at the very beginning but it was a mess as well. Robinho for example admitted that he was signing for City thinking that they were us. Chelsea had their bumps as well. They bought Veron, Crespo, Smertin and Mutu in their first year. Then they nicked Kenyon as their CEO, he sabotaged us (ex Ronaldinho deal) and he brought to Chelsea all our transfer plans including Robben. They were also lucky to find Mourinho as well. I am not disputing that PSG couldn't have been run better but throwing money at a small club for players who aren't necessarily going to be a success is always a necessary evil . That''s the only way clubs like that can build their reputation and attract top players. I believe that Newcastle would have done the same if it wasn't for FFP. The problem with PSG is that they are the only attractive thing in the French league. Players join City because there's competition and they will be playing against the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and us. A PSG player goes there for $$$$. That's their sole motivation. Good luck persuading a Haaland to keep himself exciting while playing Brest this week and Clemont Foot the week after.
 
sglowrider said:
Cant see how we can pry ashworth out of the Saudis hands... And don't say bone saws.
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On paper you're 100% right. However if you go in for a closer look then you can find some cracks in the argument

a- SJR had been outwitting ME juggernauts for quite some time. The Mercedes deal, him nicking Blanc from PSG and now the United deal. He knows what makes them tick
b- The guy is a good speaker. I was a staunch anti INEOS bid for reasons I explained countless times. However it takes you few minutes in one of his interviews to start liking the guy. He's passionate, he loves to turn unprofitable business around, he's charismatic, he's bright and he has retained the next door neighbor charm as opposed to the typical ME billionaire whose used to get what he wants
c-The Saudis are staunchly rich but their efforts are spread across Newcastle, the Saudi league and the WC bid. We are INEOS flag ship
d- Newcastle are not Manchester United. The romantism surrounding resurrecting this juggernaut is a career booster. Edwards became a legend by doing that with Liverpool and Liverpool are not Manchester United either.
e- ME owners want success, they like things their way and they can lose patience. Currently the clouds are forming around Howe. How long it will take before Ashworth becomes yesterday's dazzle?
 
devilish said:
I said that the 'circus' is still ahead to a prime Nice. I also went on explaining that both were run badly and both had since learnt from their mistakes.

What PSG had done is not that different to what the new rich clubs had done at the beginning of their reign. You might not remember City at the very beginning but it was a mess as well. Robinho for example admitted that he was signing for City thinking that they were us. Chelsea had their bumps as well. They bought Veron, Crespo, Smertin and Mutu in their first year. Then they nicked Kenyon as their CEO, he sabotaged us (ex Ronaldinho deal) and he brought to Chelsea all our transfer plans including Robben. They were also lucky to find Mourinho as well. I am not disputing that PSG couldn't have been run better but throwing money at a small club for players who aren't necessarily going to be a success is always a necessary evil . That''s the only way clubs like that can build their reputation and attract top players. I believe that Newcastle would have done the same if it wasn't for FFP. The problem with PSG is that they are the only attractive thing in the French league. Players join City because there's competition and they will be playing against the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and us. A PSG player goes there for $$$$. That's their sole motivation. Good luck persuading a Haaland to keep himself exciting while playing Brest this week and Clemont Foot the week after.
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City, Chelsea did not dick around not learning from their mistakes for literally a decade. Psg did.

Also here's what you said

devilish said:
What I disagree is this concept that Nice was run better then psg. It wasn't
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VP89 said:
City, Chelsea did not dick around not learning from their mistakes for literally a decade. Psg did.

Also here's what you said
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They weren't run better then PSG but I never said that they were run worse. Quite frankly they were both run shit
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Well of course they are, because they’ve cheated like City and spent a fecking gazilion.

Nice on the other hand are trying to run a club properly and as we have seen vs. City, even the best run clubs can and do find it almost impossible to be above the nation state.
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FFP became a thing in recent years. Before that it was normal for owners to pump millions into the club. The Serie A football dominance in the 80s-early 90s was built around that. INEOS invested into NICE as well, not as much as the Al Thani did in PSG but still quite significantly for a French club.
 
devilish said:
They weren't run better then PSG but I never said that they were run worse. Quite frankly they were both run shit
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Psg were run worse though. How can you get away with a decade of poor performance and still be CEO for example?
 
devilish said:
Quite frankly I can't see beyond Ashworth and Edwards for the sporting director role. Berta is good as well but has zero EPL experience. Mitchell would be great as Head of Recruitment
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Until I see a reliable source reporting interest in Ashworth/Edwards as DOF and Mitchell as Head of Recruitment I won't believe
 
VP89 said:
Psg were run worse though. How can you get away with a decade of poor performance and still be CEO for example?
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On the flip side PSG won 9 league titles in that decade. Sure they have underachieved in the CL but that's quite a tough cup to win. SAF won it just 2 times in his entire career
 
croadyman said:
Until I see a reliable source reporting interest in Ashworth/Edwards as DOF and Mitchell as Head of Recruitment I won't believe
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I think Blanc and Mitchell are in the bag. God knows in which role the latter will be in. The rest is pie in the sky
 
devilish said:
Quite frankly I can't see beyond Ashworth and Edwards for the sporting director role. Berta is good as well but has zero EPL experience. Mitchell would be great as Head of Recruitment
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Hope you're right. This is like 100X upgrade from useless Murtough.
 
devilish said:
On the flip side PSG won 9 league titles in that decade. Sure they have underachieved in the CL but that's quite a tough cup to win. SAF won it just 2 times in his entire career
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Yes because they spent far far more than any other team. That tends to happen when you do that.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Well of course they are, because they’ve cheated like City and spent a fecking gazilion.

Nice on the other hand are trying to run a club properly and as we have seen vs. City, even the best run clubs can and do find it almost impossible to be above the nation state.
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Yeah not sure how leading the table is being sold as an achievement for PSG.

They bought players for 430m last summer and had a net spend of over 200m due to selling players to the Saudi and Qatari leagues. A quick look shows the next 4 clubs in the table haven't spent half of that combined.
 
What you need to take into consideration regarding PSG's brainless, shortsighted vision and their toxic club culture is that it wouldn't work at all in a tougher league, especially the PL. They couldn't outspend teams the way they outspend their French rivals and without good long-term planning they would just be in and out of top 4, much like us in the last 10 years.

I'm sure United could win the title in Italy or France due to the sheer financial advantage we would have in those leagues, but we are the best example that in England you can't throw money at everything and expect it to work.
 
devilish said:
Quite frankly I can't see beyond Ashworth and Edwards for the sporting director role. Berta is good as well but has zero EPL experience. Mitchell would be great as Head of Recruitment
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Tbf I think the recruitment at Newcastle has been very average and too focused on British talent. They wanted McTominay ffs... Long-term they'll look like duds, just like Arsenal's.

I'd much prefer Mitchell over Ashworth if Edwards is a no-go.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
Tbf I think the recruitment at Newcastle has been very average and too focused on British talent. They wanted McTominay ffs... Long-term they'll look like duds, just like Arsenal's.

I'd much prefer Mitchell over Ashworth if Edwards is a no-go.
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I'd repeat what I said about PSG. It takes time for a small club to build the reputation needed to attract top players. When the sheikhs took over City their first transfer window was made up of a United reject (Tevez), a former Bayern reject (Santa Cruz), Viera and Silvinho on a free and Adebayor and Toure from Arsenal. Robinho signed with them thinking that he was signing for us. That was a time before FFP kicked in which made things even worse from their perspective.

Newcastle went from relegation fodder to playing in CL at record speed. Ashworth played a huge role in that as he did with Brighton a year before. Isak was sensational while Gordon has as many goals and assists this year than Rashford but in 7 less games. He did well at Brighton and WBA as well. Id love Mitchell as HOR because its there were he did very well. Ashworth on the other hand is a proven Sporting director
 
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