Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Fair point, well made!I agree.
I am torn between having the charms of the crampy/cozy, leaky, antiquated purpose-built Old Trafford versus one of those super-modern, efficient, utilitarian multi-purpose-built designs.
Its like going to a 400yrs old stinky, low ceiling (where you would constantly bump your head against the beams) limited menu pub versus those modern pubs where you have multitudes of beer choices; with 1 Michelin star food.
No white text?!
Tbf I wouldnt put too much faith on Simon's views on football players or the tactics -- even though he was a former pro player himself, albeit a low level one. Very polemic footballing pundit.
But he makes a lot of sense when it comes to the business of running a football club or the finances of it.
I recall my Ma (God rest her soul) really struggling with the stands when she came with me. Luckily, the brilliant United stewards let her use the disabled lift. A modern stadium would have better access.
None needed.
I think to look at Nice or Lausanne is too simple a comparison. Better I think to look at the staff linked like Blanc, Mitchell, Edwards, Ashworth etc and look at their track record.
Its clear these are people with a history of doing a good job in high profile positions. We can be confident in their experience, especially when compared to our current lot.
I also think it’s too simplistic to say Ratcliffe and Brailsford have failed in other sports so they will fail here. I’m sure they would argue they haven’t failed, but above and beyond that the scenarios aren’t remotely similar.
Id also say it’s more of a hope than an expectation at this point. As fans we naturally want to believe the best about our club, and I mean, it couldn’t possibly get worse - could it?!
Ahhh fair enough. I guess we should just continue as we have been for the last decade because that's brought us nothing but success right??
I say that’s arguable too considering he plunged palace into administration just 8 years after buying the club and lost most of his multi million fortune in the process…..
Id also say it’s more of a hope than an expectation at this point. As fans we naturally want to believe the best about our club, and I mean, it couldn’t possibly get worse - could it?!
I would definitely call it more hope than anything else.
Could it get worse? You only have to look at Chelsea, the most successful club this century and now...
All I am saying is that the solutions are not that obvious. I think people have unrealistic expectations of Ratcliffe & team. Its a moving train and they have to hop in and try to change things, which is always difficult. We will need a lot of patience.
The one consistent pattern/trait that Ratcliffe has is to change management very quickly; who knows if he will have that in view of the window that he has to operate in i.e., another strategic review in 18+ months?
The problem in the past was Woodward and his need to control everything.
Amen. We agree on that at least. I guess we hope for the best but expect the worst?
Amen. We agree on that at least. I guess we hope for the best but expect the worst?
I am expecting lots of superficial HR changes. The question is: what happens with the performances when we keep changing managers?
Our hope is that we have a pre-Boehley/Roman Chelsea scenario. Despite constant managerial changes, but yet consistently good footballing performances.
And hopefully not end up being like Boehley's Chelsea situation.
It's simple really, look at Liverpool or Arsenal, what they did wasn't rocket science. Get the toxic players out and buy younger, hungrier players with a point to prove. Since Gill we haven't had a CEO who is on first name basis with the big players in the market, Blanc is and Mitchell/Edwards/Ashworth would be and that saves a lot of time because they can instantly judge whether a deal can be made or not and the DOF would be aware of a few potential replacements - that is a massive improvement on its own.I think to look at Nice or Lausanne is too simple a comparison. Better I think to look at the staff linked like Blanc, Mitchell, Edwards, Ashworth etc and look at their track record.
Its clear these are people with a history of doing a good job in high profile positions. We can be confident in their experience, especially when compared to our current lot.
I also think it’s too simplistic to say Ratcliffe and Brailsford have failed in other sports so they will fail here. I’m sure they would argue they haven’t failed, but above and beyond that the scenarios aren’t remotely similar.
Id also say it’s more of a hope than an expectation at this point. As fans we naturally want to believe the best about our club, and I mean, it couldn’t possibly get worse - could it?!
I wonder how long, realistically, it will take this new footballing set-up to get into the swing of things and we see the evidence?
INEOS entrance in football was worse then the Glazers. Which is fair enough since the Americans were in sports since 1995. Last year it was their anno horribilis. There was an interview with Favre were he had no clue were Barkley played and his age. However there are 2 things that play in their favour
a- they do invest money in club. They built Lausanne a new stadium and they invested in Nice's training facilities
b- they seem to learn from their mistakes. At Nice for example they hired some top notch CEO and DOF.
a- they do invest money in club. They built Lausanne a new stadium and they invested in Nice's training facilities
b- they seem to learn from their mistakes. At Nice for example they hired some top notch CEO and DOF.
I mean, there's a big Scottish thing you've not mentioned which propped up the Glazers entry into football. That had far more impact than their sports background.
I'll take the old pub and a new ground please. Thank you.
Zero stress and thank you for replying anyway. As more details of the deal are released, it seems there’s also some sort of “minimum price” ($33 per share) the Glazers can “force” (ie exercise an option) SJR to buy their shares at (assuming a higher outside offer is obviously not in the mix as well - otherwise I’m assuming SJR would actually need to either match that offer or he can even sell his shares (& make a tidy profit I assume) to such a party.
True but we never had a situation were the manager would sit down in a press conference with a player and not knowing which position he played. INEOS made huge mistakes at Lausanne and NICE. They themselves admit to it. However they had since learnt their lessons. Fabrice Bocquet is a very promising CEO with a solid track record at Lorient while Florent Ghisolfi had done very well at Lens. The two had previously worked together at Lorient as well which explains why they managed to turn things around so quickly at Nice.
SJR's biggest flaw is that he's got a pool of people that he keeps trusting. One is his own brother, the other is Brailsford and there was a time when he trusted Moody. However unlike the Glazers he's passionate about sports and he's willing to learn
The Glazers were smart enough, early on, not to interfere with Sir Alex and the existing CEO. They just maintained the financial parameters we had previously and gave SAF more power which he relished.
From the murmurings in the press INEOS seem to know exactly where we went wrong, who doesn't, and have identified the roles that need immediate replacements. I don't really rate Paul Mitchell but he is well travelled and thus well connected so, even if he is the worst from the names being touted (Edwards and Ashworth), he would be light years ahead of Murtough in that he has intimate knowledge of the German and French markets.
I think the most difficult decision would be who replaces Ten Hag because apart from Alonso there is no genuine alternative. The obvious candidates would be Flick, De Zerbi and Nagelsman but I would worry about the transformability of their methods to our first team and English football in general. Maybe De Zerbi would be the safest bet but could we build him the team he needs?
Then again Ratcliffe and Brailsford look like mavericks, I wouldn't put it past them to bring Mckena back. It's the sort of move guys like that can and would make without a second thought and it could be inspired or turn disastrous in weeks.
Each business man has its philosophy.
The Glazers were being Glazers. They rarely interfere, they hate change and they are undecisive. They hired a PWC and former University of Bristol student for CEO and when he left guess what they did? They hired a PWC and former University of Bristol student to replace him. They tried to 'clone' SAF with Moyes because they thought that all Scottish football people are geniuses.
SJR was also being SJR. He feels at home running a business that is doing badly only to turn things around. However football is not a petrochemical company. Things are done in a certain way for a reason and having a bicycle man deciding things up because he can think out of the box can and will make things worse. However he's smart enough to learn from his mistakes as well. In fact he's relying more and more on experienced football people these days. I am pretty sure that he'll go for the top people in every role and then let them decide. That's the lesson he learnt from last season at Nice.
Regarding managers, I do believe that they will change him. First of all because new admin would want their own man. Secondly its because goalposts will be changes especially around transfers. I think we will go for either potter (ashworth man) or someone like Pochs (Mitchell man)
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After spending £1.3billion I doubt if they would risk investing in a relatively newbie like McKenna.
I wouldn't mind Alonso, a bold move considering how all our Bundesliga imports have worked out. But also would he come to United considering his past ties?
Think you and Simon need to take a look at Ligue 1, some curse that currently looks like.
Remember they finished 7th the season prior to INEOS taking over.
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Yes, but that's not what I'm doing. There have been many credible sources you could have read regarding Jim and his foray into sport but you have chosen a guy/outlet that will tell you anything that will get them more clicks etc...
It's taken a few years though, which may not be afforded at United!
And one that conveniently ignores successes like sailing, and Nice currently being 2nd coming up to the half way point in France with just two losses all season.
Afforded? They aren’t managers, what are we gonna do? Force them out like we did the Glazers?
It also took City a few years, despite their bottomless pit and mass cheating. If Nice manage to finish 2nd this season, that’d be a good timeline for a non cheating club structure that can’t just ignore FFP like PSG & City did.
Who's doing the affording again?
It’s weird too, City took 4 seasons to get to the title, despite a bottomless pit, no other state ownership in the league and cheating FFP like feck.
Nice are.on the right track after huge upheaval in their structure by INEOs,
Lausanne are back in the Super League after getting promoted,
All Blacks made it through to the World Cup Final and were pipped by fine margins.
With regards to cycling, it's arguable to say that Team Sky was on the decline in the season that INEOs took over midway through and they haven't improved the situation.
This 'curse' is utter tripe.
Oh no, Qatar's decision to use Jassim backfired spectacularly.
He absolutely had no idea who he was dealing with. His state-appointed occupation has him used to having everything his own way, with a tendency to sleep in meetings.
Genuinely thought he'd show up, have the Glazers over a table and walk off with the loot. His fatal error was when he tried to buy consent with promises of billions to do up the local area. The Glazers realised that money was in play and fancied a portion.
I genuinely thought he'd just up it and move on (he did), but am delighted he did not buy us and turn us into a dismal sports-washing project fronted by a complete numpty.
Get rid of both. Sancho is a poor professional and we all know about Greenwood. There'll be other players.
People need to go into this era knowing Simon Jordan is an opinionated cock, with an agenda paid for by the media.
Absolutely, but 'broken clock' syndrome and all that. Check out Jordan versus 'Joe the city fan'. It was priceless.
Think many pro-Qatar posters bit down hard on their bid. Possibly imbibed the political angle more than they'd like.
They'll be circling poor Ineos performance like vultures about carrion.
As is their right.
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This is key because had SJR been anything like the Glazers his mate would still be stinking up the place at Nice. The fact that he saw the need to change and changed it speaks volume especially as it was a mate, without the ESL saga we would still have Woodward in place and the Glazers wouldn't have given up the CEO position so easily if it was his head on the chopping block.
I sincerely hope they do get the DOF role right and that they give whoever they appoint a bit of time to clear the mess they are inheriting.
That's my concern -- there is a finite window for Trawler has turn things around.
I don’t understand the incessant doom mongering. As @Regulus Arcturus Black and @Champ have pointed out all of the above is massively exaggerated when you look at the actual facts and where things currently stand.
It’s unrealistic to expect things to be prefect overnight so if they are your expectations then it’s you who needs a reality check surely?
United are now being linked to some of the best in class people to support a new football operation and modernise our approach. I fail to see how this won’t improve on what we currently have although it’s obvious these things take some time to bed in before they bare their fruits in full. That’s just being realistic. They’ll be a short, medium and long term plan.
It seems strange that some want to beat INEOS with their sporting record yet would have welcomed ownership from Qatar with zero experience bar, if you link the two, the circus we have seen at PSG?
Ironically the best thing PSG have excelled at (marketing) was led by the same man INEOS are bringing to United. Jean Claude Blanc.
They had the best big Tour rider before (Froome), where the range of competitors had broadened a lot in recent years. Jumbo is just a level above the other teams, and Pogacar is... Pogacar. Ineos had someone in Bernal who was tipped to win multiple Tour de France's until he had a terrible accident, from which he's still recovering (and might never be the same again). For doing so terrible they have serial winners like Ganna and Kwia, some of the best talents in the world in Pidcock, Geoghegan Hart, Sheffield, Arensman, Hayter, Carlos Rodriguez... and overall a very very good team.
So much exaggerating going on.
More hyperbole on the forum as per. Can't speak for everyone but from what I've seen this is absolutely not the case. People are just happy the Glazers now own less of Utd and that we have the potential for a fresh start.
The cycling example is pretty silly. Team Sky was set up with a single goal, they were completely focused on winning Tour de France, and were very successful with Wiggins -> Froome -> Thomas. And a lot of drugs ("allegedly").
As Ineos they kept much of the same focus, though with a bit more focus on the other tours and the classics, but their main star Froome ruined himself in a horrible crash. Thomas got old, and Bernal, the next big thing, almost died. On top of all this, in the last couple of years they've been competing against Pogacar and Vingegaard, two absolute phenomenons.
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I am trying to put things in perspective mate but to call psg a circus is a but ironic considering that, despite their very positive season, nice are still 2nd behind the 'circus'
Irrespective of that the Qatari bid is gone. There's no point discussing it further
The only thing I can hope for is sporting competence from Ineos, that's all Utd ever needed. Which is, when you don't have the expertise you hire the right people to deliver that competency for you!
If you look at our failure pre SAF, it's quite clear that we struggled with getting the right people in the position to drive the club to success. And is also probably (along with the money/cheating) the biggest reason City have enjoyed so much success because Abu Dhabi understood that they didn't have the sporting competency but hired the right people to deliver it.
Time will tell whthether Ineos have learned anything from their ownership of other football clubs and the unique nature of this 'business' but the sounds coming out appear to be right, my mind keeps going back to the absolute cretins that are the Glazers and how they will continue to impede our sporting competency.
If you look at our failure pre SAF, it's quite clear that we struggled with getting the right people in the position to drive the club to success. And is also probably (along with the money/cheating) the biggest reason City have enjoyed so much success because Abu Dhabi understood that they didn't have the sporting competency but hired the right people to deliver it.
Time will tell whthether Ineos have learned anything from their ownership of other football clubs and the unique nature of this 'business' but the sounds coming out appear to be right, my mind keeps going back to the absolute cretins that are the Glazers and how they will continue to impede our sporting competency.
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