Club Sale | It’s done!

Status
Not open for further replies.
UpWithRivers said:
I misspelled a word. I would like to formally apologize to the whole Redcafe community. The Glazers. Sir Jim. Everyone at the club. I am seeking therapy for my actions and hope that I can be a better person in the futire....oh sht
Click to expand...

Spelling the Glazers as Glaziers automatically discredits any point you subsequently make.
Also seen with McGuire, Erikson/Erikkson etc.

I'm sorry, I don't make the rules.
 
Berbaclass said:
Was listening to the Gab and Jules podcast and they make a good point about ETH, mentioning that his player knowledge is probably limited due to him mostly working under a DOF. Never really thought about it like that.
Click to expand...
If that is to be the case, that we are truly truly fecked. No other man at the club should have more player knowledge than the manager himself imo. By that I don't mean he has to be a live player data center, but ETH has to have that ability to recognize a true talent or not when he sees one, otherwise no point of having him, even the most competent DOF would be obsolete.

Buys like Antony and Onana just reek of him lacking it.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Worrying that Dougie Freedman’s name keeps cropping up when it seemed pretty much nailed on that Paul Mitchell would be our new DOF.
Click to expand...

Looks like Fergie has influenced Radcliffe and now they're leaking it, that it's SAF's call and not his.
 
Kostov said:
If that is to be the case, that we are truly truly fecked. No other man at the club should have more player knowledge than the manager himself imo. By that I don't mean he has to be a live player data center, but ETH has to have that ability to recognize a true talent or not when he sees one, otherwise no point of having him, even the most competent DOF would be obsolete.

Buys like Antony and Onana just reek of him lacking it.
Click to expand...

You think Onana isn't talented?
 
Fergie should not be involved in this decision at his age. Genius as he was, he has as far as I know never worked under a DOF and, if we take the nearest equivalent (managers), he has a track record of poor appointment recommendations such as McCleish and, as we all know, Moyes. Sounds like cheap populism (unsurprisingly from a promoter of Brexit).
 
Please no consulting Fergie and no hiring ex players. Can we just modernise this club already and stop living in the past. It's long overdue
 
Kostov said:
If that is to be the case, that we are truly truly fecked. No other man at the club should have more player knowledge than the manager himself imo. By that I don't mean he has to be a live player data center, but ETH has to have that ability to recognize a true talent or not when he sees one, otherwise no point of having him, even the most competent DOF would be obsolete.

Buys like Antony and Onana just reek of him lacking it.
Click to expand...
You what? The manager is not being paid to scout the world for talent, that should be somebody else’s job. The manager has enough to do to coach the squad that he’s got. Yes, he had too much power and very limited knowledge of the market, hence the bad buys we’ve made. But that’s actually the clubs fault for not presenting him with a list of suitable targets and then giving him, allegedly, the power of veto. Managers should never be the ones buying players. A manager’s club life is generally short, we do not want to be in a situation where a new manager comes in and has to work with the previous manager’s mates. We need to get recruitment right and on a sustainable basis.
 
Our biggest mistake was Ferguson moving upstairs and taking that director of football role. 10 years later if he wanted the role I would give it. If you read his book ‘Leading’ it’s clear his vision for the club after he retired was there, United just didn’t implement. Fans want to blame him for Moyes or whatever but don’t blame him, blame the Glazers.
 
George The Best said:
You what? The manager is not being paid to scout the world for talent, that should be somebody else’s job. The manager has enough to do to coach the squad that he’s got. Yes, he had too much power and very limited knowledge of the market, hence the bad buys we’ve made. But that’s actually the clubs fault for not presenting him with a list of suitable targets and then giving him, allegedly, the power of veto. Managers should never be the ones buying players. A manager’s club life is generally short, we do not want to be in a situation where a new manager comes in and has to work with the previous manager’s mates. We need to get recruitment right and on a sustainable basis.
Click to expand...
This is some new level of mental gymnastic pal. Yeah he should not scout the world for talent, but he surely needs to recognize how shit Antony actually will be in an environment outside of his dutch farmer level league.
 
If SJR was to be making a big signing in January , who do you think he’d go for?

I appreciate we want to move away from muppet signings, but he may want to make some sort of statement to fans.

Id rather he didn’t to be honest and just had a longer term plan, but just curious who people think he might try to sign?
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
If SJR was to be making a big signing in January , who do you think he’d go for?

I appreciate we want to move away from muppet signings, but he may want to make some sort of statement to fans.

Id rather he didn’t to be honest and just had a longer term plan, but just curious who people think he might try to sign?
Click to expand...

No one.

He'd leave that up to the newly appointed sporting director and ten Hag.
 
Rojofiam said:
No one.

He'd leave that up to the newly appointed sporting director and ten Hag.
Click to expand...

I don’t mean he’d choose somebody himself , moreso he’d make funds available for it.

Id prefer a clever , cheap addition to be honest with a serious summer of business
 
Kostov said:
This is some new level of mental gymnastic pal. Yeah he should not scout the world for talent, but he surely needs to recognize how shit Antony actually will be in an environment outside of his dutch farmer level league.
Click to expand...

Yes, he should have realised Antony isn't right, but also, he would have needed alternative options.

I also thought that one of Moyes's problems were that as an Everton manager there were parts of the market which he had little knowledge of because they were never relevant for him - The better, established players, who were no-go zones for Everton due to profile and price. When Moyes got to United, suddenly he had to shop in those levels. It might be the same for ETH, both because he worked with a DOF at Ajax and also because Ajax and United shop at very different places. That's why ETH needed a better structure at United, to help him make the jump between the Dutch League and Ajax to the Premier League and United. He never got it - or did not trust what he did get - so he quite naturally went for the players he knew.
 
Rojofiam said:
No one.

He'd leave that up to the newly appointed sporting director and ten Hag.
Click to expand...

Patrick Stewart would make it so.

Get Romulan Lukaku in. Warp Factor ten Hag. Will get Scotty Beaming. The Wrath of Kanchelskis.

Or perhaps an out-of-this-world signing:

Kylian Mclasse
 
Pes6Monster said:
Hopefully, Brexit Jim will preserve Fergie's brain in a vat and ensure its reanimated with tuna brine, the old fashioned way, lest His counsel be needed in future.
Click to expand...
No need for that much effort, just chuck a pack of wrigleys at it and it’ll start yelling at you.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
I don’t mean he’d choose somebody himself , moreso he’d make funds available for it.

Id prefer a clever , cheap addition to be honest with a serious summer of business
Click to expand...

Todibo is an obvious one. Player they are familiar with, highly rated and in a position we need. That being said, they are unlikely to sabotage Nice's season, so it will likely happen in the summer.
 
George The Best said:
You what? The manager is not being paid to scout the world for talent, that should be somebody else’s job. The manager has enough to do to coach the squad that he’s got. Yes, he had too much power and very limited knowledge of the market, hence the bad buys we’ve made. But that’s actually the clubs fault for not presenting him with a list of suitable targets and then giving him, allegedly, the power of veto. Managers should never be the ones buying players. A manager’s club life is generally short, we do not want to be in a situation where a new manager comes in and has to work with the previous manager’s mates. We need to get recruitment right and on a sustainable basis.
Click to expand...
They did with Ragnick but he didn’t want to listen. Wanted his own players in.
 
TsuWave said:
People need to stop posting this dude as if he knows anything. Complete chancer - always going for the safe, easily observable/to assume stuff - and often does so after ot has been reported somewhere else
Click to expand...
Said it before it was reported but okay...
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Is there any official evidence that Ferguson CHOSE Moyes or did he just say “I guess he’s as good as anybody”?
Click to expand...
He was a romantic option for Fergie. He wasnt "THE CHOICE." He wasnt in a position to make the choice. He quit United because of a mix of his own health problems (missing some of pre-season due to nose bleeds) and the death of his sister in law. The likes of Klopp, Pep, Carlo etc. dont get out of their contracts within a few weeks of an announcement. Its mad that Fergie gets the blame for Moyes.
 
Kostov said:
This is some new level of mental gymnastic pal. Yeah he should not scout the world for talent, but he surely needs to recognize how shit Antony actually will be in an environment outside of his dutch farmer level league.
Click to expand...
Should never have been given the powers to buy him. Not his job!
 
Baxquux said:
(Hypothetically) it should get better with a new ( experienced in football) CEO , particularly if their first main act prior to coming into post is to advise on the same SD. Agree that SAF should be kept away from major decision-making though: he's obviously advised other managers in the past in ways which were more or less helpful, but his reputation revolves around decisions he took as a manager, not for decisions he took regarding successors or how the club should proceed around transfers/restructuring - from the Moyes appointment to the little else we know about advising when managers should be retained, no evidence of particular perspicuous judgement there. ...
Click to expand...

Chumpsbechumps said:
Is there any official evidence that Ferguson CHOSE Moyes or did he just say “I guess he’s as good as anybody”?

I mean I feel this SAF blame for managers laughable, is there anybody not a human shield for the glazers?

Incidentally, it actually doesn’t matter what SAF advises on in any capacity (including managers. His job stopped in May 2013. Anything since then has been decided by the Glazers, not Ferguson, so people need to just stop “blaming Ferguson” for anything since he won us the league.

He could advise the glazers to make a inanimate carbon rod the manager , it doesn’t mean they have to do it.
Click to expand...

The level of disrespect and arrogance/ignorance on the part of United fans is shocking --- acting like they know what the Great Man did, knows and was responsible for.
There is so much recency effect or 'what have you done for ME lately' syndrome going on.

i have never heard RAWK disrespect Shankly or even Paisley but here ... Caftards seem to know more than anyone about how to run a club than management, past or present!

Embarrassing.
 
DSG said:
My reading of the tea leaves in what we know that has been publicly verified.

1. Jim Ratcliffe wants an element of control for his 1.3b.
2. The 25% stake came from Glazers kids, either two / three of them that want out and sold or equal dilution of shares. Even the largest shareholder, Joel, would only have 13% of total shares and 19% of the voting shares, if he was not diluted at all. Sir Jim would have almost double the voting power. If all Glazers were equally diluted, then he’d be in even a stronger position.
3. Any capital invested in the stadium, transfers etc by Sir Jim would give him further control. Let’s say, for example, that Sir Jim put another 1.3b for Old Trafford renovation. All shareholders would be further diluted. Maybe not exactly by 25% to 50%, but somewhere around 40%. That puts him in the drivers seat. Does he completely control the board? No. But it’s close given how fragmented the owners of the other voting shares are.
3. I believe the acquisition of these shares may include control clauses and follow-on investment clauses as well as share purchase options once certain valuations are reached. By the time he’s through, Sir Jim will have over 50% of the voting shares

Is this good? Maybe, if INEOS does a better job on managing the club, then yes. And the the bar is pretty fecking low.

For your US sports analogies, I’d say Red Sox and Cubs are a bit different than our situation. Neither one could have been considered dynasties before their “fall”. Both happened before baseball was integrated. Neither had the highest revenues in the league. The Red Sox were consistently good, the Cubs pretty much awful. Red Sox had appearances in several World Series but failed to win. Cubs never made it to the World Series. Browns we’re good pre modern NFL, but then pretty awful consistently. Redskins were never a dynasty, but they were good. Probably the best analogy would be the Boston Celtics who were dominant from the 50’s until the 80s, but fell on really hard times after and have only one championship since 1986. The Yankees were pretty much a dynasty and the class of MLB until 1981, then had a 15 year dry spell, then another dynasty-like period. Also, they have the highest revenues. Hopefully we’ll bounce back like them.
Click to expand...

Great points. There's no real downside to hope so let's hope something good comes from Ratcliffe's partial ownership of the club. What we must avoid at all costs is permanently becoming a club that everyone around the world looks at as the laughingstock that we are today.
 
FujiVice said:
Except it wasnt. Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti and Mourinho have all came out and said they were spoken to. Moyes was a choice. Not THE choice. Knowing what you know about this club, do you honestly think they could have managed to get one of those to replace Ferguson? We couldnt even sign Leighton fecking Baines in the summer of 2013, let alone Pep Guadiola.
Click to expand...

But Moyes was in fact the choice. Yes of course not the first choice, but he was the choice that Ferguson made. I said it at the time (on another forum, not here) that going with Moyes would fukk the club for at least a decade and it's been a decade now and we're as fukked now as we were back then.
 
lex talionis said:
But Moyes was in fact the choice. Yes of course not the first choice, but he was the choice that Ferguson made. I said it at the time (on another forum, not here) that going with Moyes would fukk the club for at least a decade and it's been a decade now and we're as fukked now as we were back then.
Click to expand...
That's clearly not what fecked us. The evidence of the last decade points to what has fecked up. Selling Ronaldo for £80 million and not spending that money was a big one. David Gill leaving and not putting someone competent in to replace him was another. Moyes had a bad 8 months, where he wasnt backed in the transfer market. That isnt the basis of 10 years of mediocrity. You cant keep blaming him for it, when so many others have failed.
 
Amir said:
Yes, he should have realised Antony isn't right, but also, he would have needed alternative options.

I also thought that one of Moyes's problems were that as an Everton manager there were parts of the market which he had little knowledge of because they were never relevant for him - The better, established players, who were no-go zones for Everton due to profile and price. When Moyes got to United, suddenly he had to shop in those levels. It might be the same for ETH, both because he worked with a DOF at Ajax and also because Ajax and United shop at very different places. That's why ETH needed a better structure at United, to help him make the jump between the Dutch League and Ajax to the Premier League and United. He never got it - or did not trust what he did get - so he quite naturally went for the players he knew.
Click to expand...
What kind of crap is this? So he got or he didn’t get alternatives? You say he didn’t but then you say he got but he didn’t trust them?

I find it hard to believe there weren’t alternatives for Antony. Casemiro himself was an alternative so this all thesis of your is based on absolutely nothing but blind excuses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.