And you presume Ineos, Ratcliffe, their lawyers, etc. are not aware of that? There will either be binding agreements or a multi billion dollar company is giving free money to the Glazers for nothing in return. Which one do you think is likelier?
Club Sale | It’s done!
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And you presume Ineos, Ratcliffe, their lawyers, etc. are not aware of that? There will either be binding agreements or a multi billion dollar company is giving free money to the Glazers for nothing in return. Which one do you think is likelier?
I think Qatar will win. When it comes down to it if they need to go up they can. I don't think the same applies to Ratcliffe.
Yeah of course they'll be aware, but if you think for a second the Glazers will give INEOS any kind of say in whats going on in the club then i'd say you're very wrong. Of course they may do, but do you think the Glazers will let INEOS have any say in how money is spent, how things are ran etc? Come on now... They may have some kind of contract saying they have to sell for £xb in 3 or 4 years, but until then, the Glazers will do what they want, when they want.
I think INEOS and Jim are getting desperate and are putting forward offers that they think the Glazers will like the sound of.
Also they're not getting "nothing in return", they're getting 25% of Manchester United, not in a way they'd want, but it's still 25% of the club, so thats essentially what they're buying. What the Glazers do with that money, thats their choice isn't it. But being reinvested into the club? Nah, not happening. Not under the Glazers anyway
Rhodes is a fecking fraud who somehow managed to monetize a subreddit off the back of random people sending him DMs with fake news.
He's not entirely clueless IMO. I really am not a fan of him either.
They weren’t aware that their last offer wasn’t exactly legal so who the feck knows?
These Qatar sources aren't giving anything away are they?
They're literally doing everything in silence, but as you said before, it's interesting how they don't have to come out and say anything.
How is it good news? It will just kick the can down the road and the clubs performance getting worse. Higher debt repayment, further deterioration of current infrastructure and less money to spend on players etc -- unless you think that the Glazers will use that ineos money to help the club out.
If so, I have some land in Florida I would like to sell you.
Wrong thread.
This forum seriously needs a facepalm emoji.
Still water runs deep.
It's also interesting that the younger bidder out of the two that is the quiet one.
Thanks BossUnless he ups his bid he isn’t winning.
If it's a successful bid with a view to completely buy them out by 2026, the Glazers will be fully aware of that and will have accepted it...why wouldn't Ineos have a say until then, especially those examples you mentioned? I don't think the Glazers would invest out of their own pockets in this scenario, but I can see them sacrificing dividends until 2026 if they get their huge payday then.
There's too much we don't know yet (and probably never will if it isn't a successful bid): dividends, voting rights, binding agreements, potential put and call options, etc. But one thing for sure is that Ineos aren't stupid and they're not a charity either. If this 25% bid goes through, they'll have something in it for themselves. Like I mentioned already, they could end their interest in the club and still make more than enough money from their other ventures. Ineos taking over to just leech money from the club (this is what many people are afraid of) is such a dumb thing to be afraid of if people just used their heads. What United makes annually is a drop in the bucket for them, but the amount that they need to buy is for is significant. It would be a very high risk, very low reward type of investment to make...Like me buying an apartment for 10 million just to rent it out for 500 a month.
It could be desperation, but I think it's likelier that they are trying to find solutions together and this is something the Glazers will accept. Ineos and Ratcliffe will easily wait 3 years to then get full control if that is the case.
Except that you don't know that. I know that the Bloomberg journalist thought it wasn't plausible, but other lawyers have said that the minority shareholders wouldn't really have a case if they tried suing Ineos and the Glazers.
care to source this? havent read about this?
Jacobs is saying INEOS are planning an offer of up to 2.5bn dollars for 25% of the club…that values the club at 10bn dollars.
So...it's been radio silence from Qatar since their last "take it or leave it" offer which was made in early June.
It was still lower than Ratcliffe's bid, which is reported to be "flexible", and it's been stated several times that he also had a 69% offer on the table for all Glazer shares, among other options.
It's also really likely that Joel and Avram seriously want to stay and it's pretty obvious that they are still in negiotiations with Ineos 4 months after Jassim went silent.
And yet so many of you are convinced that Ratcliffe will be outbid by the human rights abusers, even though it hasn't happened once despite having enough time and opportunities.
It was still lower than Ratcliffe's bid, which is reported to be "flexible", and it's been stated several times that he also had a 69% offer on the table for all Glazer shares, among other options.
It's also really likely that Joel and Avram seriously want to stay and it's pretty obvious that they are still in negiotiations with Ineos 4 months after Jassim went silent.
And yet so many of you are convinced that Ratcliffe will be outbid by the human rights abusers, even though it hasn't happened once despite having enough time and opportunities.
I do agree with what you've said, there is so much we don't know at the moment and likely never will, but one thing i'm sure of is that if the Glazers did accept this minority stake, it would be for 25% of the club with no voting rights. I just don't see why the Glazers would do something that would, in essence, undermine them for the next 3 years. It makes no sense, they want to stay in control if it's not a 100% sale, and what INEOS is proposing would involve them relinquishing that control. I just don't see it. Any Glazer shares INEOS buys will become Class A in my opinion and the Glazers will hold complete control. Again, thats my opinion, as with everyone here we have no idea whats going to happen, everything is absolute speculation.
Plus the Glazers relinquishing their dividends isn't going to fund the repairs and development of OT is it? The Glazers could wipe out the debt and do some cititcal repairs on OT with that £1.5b, but they'd rather pocket it and drag the club down over the next 3 years in the hope that something happens and the value sky rockets. They're leeches, they've invested nothing out of their pocket for the last 10 years, they're not going to change now are they?
The only thing that makes me think this is desperation is that it's being reported that this is what Jim is doing off his own back, he's not been told it'll be successful, he's just looking for ways to restructure to how the Glazers might light it. Either he's doing that because he knows he's losing the race and Qatar are close to sealing the deal and he wants one last attempt at proposing something he feels might work or he's doing that because the Glazers don't want to sell and he's just finding an alternative method of buying out, similar to how the Glazers completed their takeover way back when. Whichever the case, it's messy and it's only going to get worse i bet
Link to these other lawyers? It’s literal law being quoted, it’s there in black and white.
Fans have been talking around Jim’s problems for months and even now with this Hail Mary pass it’s still the same
Remember when our biggest concern was that SJ and the Qatari bid was clearly a sock puppet? Seems a long time ago.
And you know it's not happening... how?
Because SJ isn't doing a Ratcliffe and leaking everything he does to the media? Because he's not reporting that he's trying to kiss the Glazers arses with offers that he believes they'll accept? At the end of the day, just because it's not being broadcast to the world doesn't mean that nothing is going on. Unless of course you have some inside knowledge that other people here don't have? You, Me, everyone here on this forum have absolutely no idea what is going on, and sadly thats how it's going to remain until anything official comes out.
No, it just means that "those close to the 92F" are towing the company line of saying the bid is on the table. They're not divulging anything to anyone so the last bit of information we had from them was their bid was around £5bn, but since then, nothing at all. Talks have apparently been ongoing with both parties, so we have no idea whats been discussed or what their current bid is at.
Not really. All it’s saying is Sheikh Jassim is bidding for 100% of the club and he wont change the structure of the deal and go for a minority stake like Ratcliffe is doing. It’s still possible the Qatari’s could increase their bid further for full control off the back of this latest move from INEOS.
If he’s only buying 25% of the Glazers shares and then trying to do a deal with the Hedge funds both parties have to agree if he’s only buying 25% of the class A shares as well that would mean he pays £1.5 billion for 25% of the 69% or 113 million class B shares owned by the Glazers so 28.25 million shares, then to prevent a legal challenge he would be obliged to buy 25% of the Class A shares so he would buy 12.5 million of the Class A Shares at maybe $38 per share because they would not sell them at anything less, based upon SJ offer that’s another $475 million or £392M.
I assumed earlier that he’s was trying to buy 75% of the minority shares because hedge funds had been offered a huge enterprise offer from SJ for all of their 50 million class A shares but this is not a takeover any more but simply a minority investment with a view to complete a potential takeover in 3 years.
Let’s assume that this is the case as this is now been reported that he would buy the same percentage of class A shares as Class B.
This would mean that the new company breakdown would be as follows;
Glazers - 84.75m class B shares - 51.75%
INEOS - 28.25m Class B Shares - 17.25%
Class B 10 times voting rights
Minority - 50m shares
INEOS - 9.4m Class A Shares - 5.83%
The Glazers - 6.9m Class A Shares - 4.28%
The rest H/Funds - 33.7m Class A - 20.89%
Assuming this is correct as this is being suggested on Twitter, without a legitimate put and call contract in place there is nothing to stop Qatar next year buying the controlling 51.75% which is 3/4 of the 69%
They could now buy for £3.8bn, then buy the remaining 25% minority shares Sans INEOS thus forcing a hostile takeover at a later date, huge risk for INEOS without any binding contract to agree full sale?
This would let the Glazers have their cake and eat it but also potentially lose out on a huge windfall now as Qatar might never come back in and INEOS promises of investment start to fade away in 2-3 years.
It’s simply a Desperate play by a desperate man, I think most of us have just had enough of the Goblins so if they are staying, a lot of the united fans will boycott the team, stay away from stadium and cause havoc with protests and sit ins. This will get super ugly for the Glazers and much sooner than they think !
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This has been debunked on numerous occasions.
Possible, and most likely.
For me, this shows they don't really want this club.
If they wanted it bad enough, and Jassim was this United supporter since 92, they would be pragmatic enough to do what was required to get the deal done, even if it means compromise with The Glazers. It is how it works in business, but I expect that Qatar are used to having things their own way. If true, they will prob move for another club - there will be a pic of Jassim at White Hart Lane in a Spurs shirt - the wonders of AI !
Jim and Ineos are real businessman who have experience in M&A. It is how he build Ineos - buy buying small, unfashionable and underperforming chemical companies.
Maybe in the west.
United fans will not boycott the club. They've had eighteen years to do this, and haven't got started.
They'll most likely shout 'Ratcliffe Out!' after paying for their season ticket.
One of Qatar's real problems is they can't bid too high or they'll face scrutiny about the state function involved.
Reckon they will up their bid and get it over the line, eventually, but Ratcliffe has given us pause for thought.
Only if they have an agreement for a full sale with put and call clauses staged annually otherwise they would be open to a hostile takeover, I can’t see a company like INEOS not having a air tight contract however?
Rat needs to get lost. His latest bid is bordering on delusional.
But is bowing down and just giving in to what the Glazers want a good way of doing business?
Just because SJ won't just turn round to the Glazers and say "Here's £6bn gimme the club" doesn't mean that they don't want it? I'd say the Glazers are extremely difficult to work with, they say they want £6bn, as soon as it's offered, they'd likely turn round and say "well, we actually believe the club is worth £7bn, so you'll have to up your bid a little". No one just goes and rushes into paying what the seller wants, wouldn't that just make them poor business people if they did??
No one is denying that Jim and INEOS aren't real businessmen, but based on their previous offer, which many on here pointed out wasn't exactly legal, they're not really painting themselves in a good light, especially now they're willing to jump into bed with the Glazers... they're going to be hated if they did succeed in such a fashion
But do you see the Glazers agreeing to such a thing knowing that in 3 years the value could skyrocket and they'd be forced to accept a previously agreed price? I'm not sure how it all works but surely an agreed price would have to be in place? Of course it could benefit them if the value fell?
Great post and breakdown mate. Top work.
We don't know for sure, but i see no world where Jim is making this play in the hope Qatar come in at a later date and buy the club, including his stake. If he wants to make a quick buck, he would stick to the industry he knows.
He is also not going to invest £1.5 billion just to receive dividend over the next few years. He aint got time for that. And he wont take 25% of the club, without any control, in a business that The Glazers could start asset stripping - im thinking selling future rights in the same way Barca did.
At 70, he wants control of MUFC. I have to think that this is a play to increase his holdings over time and to avoid any of the legal challenges that may come from Class A shareholders.
They are putting up 25% of the 69% they own not the club, the Glazers want £6billion for 69% or their 113 million shares and to relinquish control, he’s offering them £1.5billion for 28.2 million so each Glazer is selling approx 4.4 million share at £250m each bit there may be a caveat that £200m must be paid off the legacy debt we’ll see if it ever comes to pass that this happens, it seems like a lot throw of the dice by a desperate man who knows he’s losing ?
Thats business. There is only one club that Jim wants to buy and he realizes he has to be pragmatic if he wants to get it.
I agree, Qatar want it. But im not sure why its 100% or nothing? Maybe its a negotiation ploy? Maybe it is a principal that they hold in Qatar that they don't want to share their assets.
If Jim gets majority control of the club and fans start to see improvements on and off the pitch, The Glazers being minority shareholders will soon fade into the background.
Thanks for explaining!
As i say i'm not finance savvy in the slightest, so i'm probably wrong about a lot of stuff. It just seems odd to me, but as you said before, wouldn't he have to also buy 25% of the Class A shareholder shares too? Is that why you believe he'd do 12.5% and 12.5%?
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